Martin : FF no longer toxic brand

raymon · 12-01-2014 1:53pm

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

That's very disrespectful. Gandalf took time to answer your post in a well thought out fashion, and you reply by calling him a blueshirt.

gandalf · 12-01-2014 2:07pm

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

You didn't even bother to read it yet you have me labelled me already! LOL!! By the way you are totally off the mark calling me a blueshirt :rolleyes:

BTW the first paragraph dealt with SF, the rest dealt with the topic at hand the toxic party that is Fianna Fail.

SF are far from growing, I would say they are stagnating in support especially as they are being complete and utter hypocrites with their jumping on the cross and protesting every cut here in the South contrasted with the zeal in which they have swung the axe up in Northern Ireland. A lot of people are seeing them for what they are now which is a populist party just like FF and who will more than likely try and fill their boots. Couple that with the "heroes" as you call them still in the party then they will find it hard to grow in the near future.

Augmerson · 12-01-2014 2:29pm

They are all pretty much the same to me. Either completely corrupt or totally self-serving.

michael999999 · 12-01-2014 2:38pm

gandalf wrote: »

You didn't even bother to read it yet you have me labelled me already! LOL!! By the way you are totally off the mark calling me a blueshirt :rolleyes:

BTW the first paragraph dealt with SF, the rest dealt with the topic at hand the toxic party that is Fianna Fail.

SF are far from growing, I would say they are stagnating in support especially as they are being complete and utter hypocrites with their jumping on the cross and protesting every cut here in the South contrasted with the zeal in which they have swung the axe up in Northern Ireland. A lot of people are seeing them for what they are now which is a populist party just like FF and who will more than likely try and fill their boots. Couple that with the "heroes" as you call them still in the party then they will find it hard to grow in the near future.

Paddy power/red sea poll during the week had sinn feins support rising three points. So I don't know exactly where your getting your facts from.

Or maybe your just deliberately derailing the thread?

gandalf · 12-01-2014 2:43pm

michael999999 wrote: »

Paddy power/red sea poll during the week had sinn feins support rising three points. So I don't know exactly where your getting your facts from.

Or maybe your just deliberately derailing the thread?

I'm responding to earlier posts by grainnewhale so I am hardly the one derailing the thread.

Polls have them going up and down like a whores knickers but one thing to bear in mind is that they normally don't do as well as polls suggest because of their transfer toxicity, like in the last general election where they got 14 seats but were being projected to take 20 according to some polls.

michael999999 · 12-01-2014 2:47pm

gandalf wrote: »

I'm responding to earlier posts by grainnewhale so I am hardly the one derailing the thread.

Polls have them going up and down like a whores knickers but one thing to bear in mind is that they normally don't do as well as polls suggest because of their transfer toxicity, like in the last general election where they got 14 seats but were being projected to take 20 according to some polls.

Grainne likes to derail any thread that criticises her beloved Fianna fail. Some people just can't see them for the crooks they are.

Also the government set up in northern Ireland is totally different to that in the south. So saying they done one thing up there and another thing down south isn't really comparable.

gandalf · 12-01-2014 3:02pm

But actions speak louder than words Michael

K-9 · 12-01-2014 5:37pm

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

Mod:

Poster is permabanned now because these seem to be the type of posts they "contribute" to the forum.

kumate_champ07 · 12-01-2014 5:51pm

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

No Irish party with the current leaders deserves our vote. FF is lead by Martin, a man steeped in Bertie's corruption. FG is lead by Enda Kenny, who decided to go down a very poor choice of road since coming to power in 2011 (he was handed a golden opportunity to truly be our greatest leader and instead squandered it and once again decided to be a dictator on the side of corruption). Labour is the same. SF has a leader who may be involved in some very horrible crimes.

FG, SF, FF and Labour may well get someone decent leading them someday but not in the foreseeable. That's for sure.

wouldnt call all of it crimes, but Im against murdering civillians, especially the bombing campaigns. they dont have a clear viable economic plan imo

its not too long ago that the other parties had blood on their hands, our little republic is still very much new

Its my right to choose not to vote, Ill vote when someone deserves it, I just wish more people would realise this. you can say more with with an empty ballot paper, the more of them the louder the msg

raymon · 14-01-2014 12:50pm

In the last redc poll it is bad news for Michael and the rest of FF

FF are quite unpopular amongst young people across Ireland , with only 15% support amongst 18-34 age group.

Also quite unpopular in the Dublin area at 14%.

In addition , Michael Martins own popularity has dropped by 2% to a lowly 33%.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/news/paddy-power-poll-jan-2014

Looks toxic to me Michael

on the river · 15-01-2014 12:09am

raymon wrote: »

In the last redc poll it is bad news for Michael and the rest of FF

FF are quite unpopular amongst young people across Ireland , with only 15% support amongst 18-34 age group.

Also quite unpopular in the Dublin area at 14%.

In addition , Michael Martins own popularity has dropped by 2% to a lowly 33%.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/news/paddy-power-poll-jan-2014

Looks toxic to me Michael

You are correct in the statement you made. however fianna fail built ireland from the beginning. Fianna fail contribution to irish affairs is complex yet they were the most popular party in the state before it collapsed. fIANNA FAIL just like fine gael will rise again. The next general election is the only opinion poll that matters.

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 12:29am

on the river wrote: »

You are correct in the statement you made. however fianna fail built ireland from the beginning. Fianna fail contribution to irish affairs is complex yet they were the most popular party in the state before it collapsed. fIANNA FAIL just like fine gael will rise again. The next general election is the only opinion poll that matters.

I think that Irish political parties need to reform rather than end. Fianna Fail for better or worse played a very big role in our history as did Fine Gael and Labour. At present, we are lead by perhaps the poorest selection of leaders in our history and have lost our old values in many regards. Massive voids have formed like the collapse of the Catholic church, banking systems and Fianna Fail. Enda Kenny is not equipped to be a good leader and his party, like Fianna Fail, was steeped in the big business/developers link to politics. All major parties do need to survive in Ireland but all need serious reform and also strong leadership.

On the ground, we need better talent than we have. The parties should select higher calibre candidates and TDs should spend more time in their constituencies solving problems for the people rather than point scoring in the Dail. In counties like Laois, Waterford, Leitrim and Cavan, we have particularly poor candidates. I live in Cork at present, and can only say we have marginally better ones only because Martin is party leader (same can be said of Mayo) but he is not any more leadership material than the morons in the other counties who remain only TDs.

on the river · 15-01-2014 12:34am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I think that Irish political parties need to reform rather than end. Fianna Fail for better or worse played a very big role in our history as did Fine Gael and Labour. At present, we are lead by perhaps the poorest selection of leaders in our history and have lost our old values in many regards. Massive voids have formed like the collapse of the Catholic church, banking systems and Fianna Fail. Enda Kenny is not equipped to be a good leader and his party, like Fianna Fail, was steeped in the big business/developers link to politics. All major parties do need to survive in Ireland but all need serious reform and also strong leadership.

On the ground, we need better talent than we have. The parties should select higher calibre candidates and TDs should spend more time in their constituencies solving problems for the people rather than point scoring in the Dail. In counties like Laois, Waterford, Leitrim and Cavan, we have particularly poor candidates. I live in Cork at present, and can only say we have marginally better ones only because Martin is party leader (same can be said of Mayo) but he is not any more leadership material than the morons in the other counties who remain only TDs.

i agree we need to strip away all the crap which exists in are public systems .the leaders need to step up and cut out all the small talk .we nead an irish obama

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 12:39am

on the river wrote: »

i agree we need to strip away all the crap which exists in are public systems .the leaders need to step up and cut out all the small talk .we nead an irish obama

The current Irish Water issue is an example of hypocrisy in Irish politics. FF criticising a FG minister (even though FF would do the very same thing: PPARS anyone?).

All these Dail debates over issues like this is where time is wasted. Because, the ones crying the loudest about 50m to consultants would do the exact same!

on the river · 15-01-2014 12:43am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The current Irish Water issue is an example of hypocrisy in Irish politics. FF criticising a FG minister (even though FF would do the very same thing: PPARS anyone?).

All these Dail debates over issues like this is where time is wasted. Because, the ones crying the loudest about 50m to consultants would do the exact same!

I agree it is like a circus. I think we should elect people who have qualificatons in there chosen fields. enda kenny is only a teacher after all

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 12:49am

raymon wrote: »

In the last redc poll it is bad news for Michael and the rest of FF

FF are quite unpopular amongst young people across Ireland , with only 15% support amongst 18-34 age group.

Also quite unpopular in the Dublin area at 14%.

In addition , Michael Martins own popularity has dropped by 2% to a lowly 33%.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/news/paddy-power-poll-jan-2014

Looks toxic to me Michael

Fianna Fail will not be able to convince many it has changed as long as Micheal Martin leads. Now, I live in Cork and admittedly, it is good to have a party leader from here, but nevertheless I never had respect for him. He comes across as quite wishy washy, lacking in charisma and weak and he also has a reputation of defending Bertie's worst corruption and he laid the groundwork for unpopular projects like PPARS and a top-heavy HSE. For smokers, he is the man responsible for the smoking ban.

Think Micheal Martin and you automatically think the Bertie/Brian Cowen eras. He was favoured as a high profile minister in these administrations. He is perhaps the most famous Bertie defender and was constantly on Prime Time and the like.

So, under this leader, can FF really convince one they have changed? If FF was lead by Michael McGrath and promoted TDs who had no major role in the Bertie era, then that would be a start. However, I have a feeling that FF will instead be dominated by the re-emerged figures from the Bertie days.

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 12:58am

on the river wrote: »

I agree it is like a circus. I think we should elect people who have qualificatons in there chosen fields. enda kenny is only a teacher after all

For the most part, I agree that politicians should have qualifications in their ministerial areas (but, then there are exceptions to this: despite being a medical doctor, James Reilly remains a very poor minister for health and is no better than non-medical Mary Harney or Micheal Martin were). Enda Kenny may or may not be a good education minister but is overall a poor Taoiseach in many regards. However, Kenny is controlled more by a system than he controls it and the system has become one that promotes lack of innovation, self serving and, at worst, corruption.

Most of our previous Taoisigh achieved something. Lemass kickstarted the economy, Lynch kept the Northern Ireland conflict from overspilling and escalating, Fitzgerald the Anglo Irish agreement, Reynolds & Bruton the peace process, Ahern (as much as I hate to give him praise!) the good Friday agreement, etc. Cowen and Haughey seemed to achieve little. Kenny hasn't done great so far but we will have the full story in a few years! More often than not, our presidents have actually outshone our Taoisigh in recent years.

Godge · 15-01-2014 1:28am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

For the most part, I agree that politicians should have qualifications in their ministerial areas (but, then there are exceptions to this: despite being a medical doctor, James Reilly remains a very poor minister for health and is no better than non-medical Mary Harney or Micheal Martin were). Enda Kenny may or may not be a good education minister but is overall a poor Taoiseach in many regards. However, Kenny is controlled more by a system than he controls it and the system has become one that promotes lack of innovation, self serving and, at worst, corruption.

Most of our previous Taoisigh achieved something. Lemass kickstarted the economy, Lynch kept the Northern Ireland conflict from overspilling and escalating, Fitzgerald the Anglo Irish agreement, Reynolds & Bruton the peace process, Ahern (as much as I hate to give him praise!) the good Friday agreement, etc. Cowen and Haughey seemed to achieve little. Kenny hasn't done great so far but we will have the full story in a few years! More often than not, our presidents have actually outshone our Taoisigh in recent years.

to be fair to the current government, bringing us out of the Troika supervision and away from the economic disasters of the Ahern/Cowen era will be seen in years to come as a great achievement.

raymon · 15-01-2014 1:55am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

So, under this leader, can FF really convince one they have changed? If FF was lead by Michael McGrath and promoted TDs who had no major role in the Bertie era, then that would be a start. However, I have a feeling that FF will instead be dominated by the re-emerged figures from the Bertie days.

Mc Grath was elected as Berties Team , or Foireann Bertie. You can't trust any of them.

By the way did he ever find the "hacker" who was using his equipment to view "milf of the week"? ....... Thought not.

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 1:32pm

Godge wrote: »

to be fair to the current government, bringing us out of the Troika supervision and away from the economic disasters of the Ahern/Cowen era will be seen in years to come as a great achievement.

But only to the detriment of lots of ordinary public sector workers losing their jobs, the youth emigrating to Australia, rural post offices/pubs/shops closing, complete sectors of the economy collapsing, etc. to balance a set of books.

Kenny's government's legacy at present is VERY poor and not any different to Ahern/Cowen. True, the 'troika' - a much maligned force often used as a shift-the-blame-to device - is gone but the jury remains out on this government. 2011-January 2014 has been very poor. Let's hope February 2014-2016 will see this government improve: they still have time to redeem themselves and we will see what happens.

BuilderPlumber · 15-01-2014 1:33pm

raymon wrote: »

Mc Grath was elected as Berties Team , or Foireann Bertie. You can't trust any of them.

By the way did he ever find the "hacker" who was using his equipment to view "milf of the week"? ....... Thought not.

That is true. McGrath is far from perfect but is about the best FF have at the moment. Definitely a step up from Martin.

baztard · 16-01-2014 3:09pm

For me Fianna Fail is still a toxic brand.
I won't consider voting for any FF candidate in any election until all of the Bertie era members of the party are gone. So realistically this means I wont consider voting for them for a generation or so.

Michael Martin was a key part of the utterly dishonest and scrupulous governments of Bertie and Cowen. I believe he cannot be trusted.
I cannot trust any FF person from that era.

ChicagoJoe · 16-01-2014 4:00pm

My girlfriend is starting to wonder is this FG/Lab govt worse than previous FF lead govt - and that's saying something.

For Reals · 16-01-2014 5:38pm

baztard wrote: »

....
I cannot trust any FF person from that era.

We seem to do this a lot. A Fianna Fail crew come along, **** us and then we buy into the next wave...they **** us, then we buy.....

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

My girlfriend is starting to wonder is this FG/Lab govt worse than previous FF lead govt - and that's saying something.

Labour sold out for a seat at the big table, Fine Gael are true to form with the right-wing austerity, but more incompetent and corrupt than I had expected, (O'Reilly/Medical Centers, Irish Water etc.).

However, for me, Fianna Fail should be banned from politics while under investigation for fraud, criminal ineptitude and treason.

gandalf · 16-01-2014 7:53pm

More examples of the Bertie elites miking of the system today with the relevations about the former CEO of the CRC and Bertie's mate! Great at feathering their own nests with taxpayers and charities monies these FFers and their hangers on!

michael999999 · 16-01-2014 8:07pm

gandalf wrote: »

More examples of the Bertie elites miking of the system today with the relevations about the former CEO of the CRC and Bertie's mate! Great at feathering their own nests with taxpayers and charities monies these FFers and their hangers on!

There a ****ing scourge on the country.

How can you rob money from disabled charitys?

michael999999 · 16-01-2014 8:08pm

gandalf wrote: »

More examples of the Bertie elites miking of the system today with the relevations about the former CEO of the CRC and Bertie's mate! Great at feathering their own nests with taxpayers and charities monies these FFers and their hangers on!

There a ****ing scourge on the country.

How can you rob money from disabled charitys?

raymon · 16-01-2014 8:20pm

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

My girlfriend is starting to wonder is this FG/Lab govt worse than previous FF lead govt - and that's saying something.

Can anyone guess which one of Bertie's team was the Fianna Fail minister for health 2000-2004 , he has been keeping very quiet lately........ You guessed it .......Michael Martin

I would like PAC to call him about how much he knew about CRC

cmore123 · 16-01-2014 8:21pm

Well, if the leader of FF says its true, I'm sure it must be.

I'm enjoying these mushrooms.

BuilderPlumber · 16-01-2014 8:47pm

baztard wrote: »

For me Fianna Fail is still a toxic brand.
I won't consider voting for any FF candidate in any election until all of the Bertie era members of the party are gone. So realistically this means I wont consider voting for them for a generation or so.

Michael Martin was a key part of the utterly dishonest and scrupulous governments of Bertie and Cowen. I believe he cannot be trusted.
I cannot trust any FF person from that era.

That is true. I will not consider a vote for FF until all the Bertie era people are gone either. You are right: they are not to be trusted.

Martin : FF no longer toxic brand

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