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Martin : FF no longer toxic brand
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Being frank I wouldn't vote for FF now as I see them as anti-Irish and a threat to our people and our country.
As a 30 year old I have a very dim view of FF of course, maybe older people have some more positive memories of them.
Unless FF really turn things around I can't see myself voting for them in the future, it would feel like I was betraying my country.
I guess I feel the same way about any organisation that I believe have hurt our people and our country, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church would fall into the same category.0 -
FF are not toxic and never were.
The absolute tribal nature of Irish politics means they never will be either.
Michael Martin will be the next Taoiseach and will probably go into Government with Sin Fein to achieve it, and the land will rejoice.
As absolutely appalling as that all sounds, I fear it will probably be the case.
I think FG got in on FF "damage control" votes as much as they did on an actual revolt against the FF party.0 -
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FF are not toxic and never were.
The absolute tribal nature of Irish politics means they never will be either.
Michael Martin will be the next Taoiseach and will probably go into Government with Sin Fein to achieve it, and the land will rejoice.
As absolutely appalling as that all sounds, I fear it will probably be the case.
I think FG got in on FF "damage control" votes as much as they did on an actual revolt against the FF party.
I must disagree with everything you said above
FF disgust most people.
Most people are not involved in tribal politics.
Michael Martin will never be Taoiseach.0 -
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Juliette Angry Starch wrote: »Being frank I wouldn't vote for FF now as I see them as anti-Irish and a threat to our people and our country.
As a 30 year old I have a very dim view of FF of course, maybe older people have some more positive memories of them.
Unless FF really turn things around I can't see myself voting for them in the future, it would feel like I was betraying my country.
I guess I feel the same way about any organisation that I believe have hurt our people and our country, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church would fall into the same category.
I would not vote for any of the current Irish parties under their present 'leaders'. All fake promises and only serve to protect elites. While there hasn't been a truly great Irish government for decades, the governments of recent times have really taken the mick.
Bertie clearly was the worst thing to ever happen FF and possibly Ireland. His insatiable appetite for power along with his crooked ways of doing so were initially camouflaged by his peace process achievements and ability to unite the party (FF was divided for years between pro and anti Haughey people: what does Bertie do? Give them all more money hence the increase in TDs salaries and they are all onside!). But between 1997 and 1999, the Irish economy was doing well. The Celtic Tiger. Maybe, just maybe, Irish corruption was gone?
But, 2000 saw the collapse of the IT sector and disaster for Ireland's MNC dominated economy. A forgotten recession took hold around this time (Foot and Mouth would not help either in 2001 and then 9/11) but nevertheless, the people never took it out on Bertie. Afterall, in post IT, pre building Ireland of 2002, Bertie got back! And the Irish economy took off like mad! Anything from 1994-1999 was a picnic compared to what we were to see from 2003 to 2008!! Building, property portfolios, rent, retail, and all the professional and educational services to go with it sprung up. Ireland was made! The second richest country in the world. We would never see dark days like the 1920s-1950s, 1970s-1993 or 2000-2002 ever again! The Irish economy was now Built in Ireland!
However, look at the world at the same time for answers: 9/11 followed up by that madman in the white house at the time was preparing to invade lots of countries and got bogged down in Iraq thus ensuring that the US economy was going to crash violently. Terrorism all over the place. Japan still struggling. The EU was poorly too. Buffoons taking control of Iran in 2005 and remaining in power until 2013. Wars everywhere. Dear oil caused by all the trouble. Reckless lending, corrupt laundering, cooking the books ...
Ireland's economy was built on a house of sand and came crashing down in 2008. The intention since then was to protect the elite and their assets to the detriment of the people. Ahern got out in 2007 knowing his 'dream' was fake!
FF deserve what they got in 2011 election without a doubt. But our current government are just as bad. They were voted in on a promise of reversing the unfair cutbacks and unjust elitist policies. Yet, they have implemented many policies such as hospital and VEC amalgamations, the abolition of FAS, the merging of different councils, etc. that ALL have resulted in the loss of ordinary jobs. Who asked for this cr@p? Who would have voted for this regime if they said they were going to implement such policies? No one. What makes this government even worse is that they regard this as reform!
The current government are 100% illegitimate as they are implementing policies counter to what the people elected them for. Since they are still in power against what the people want, Ireland is a dictatorship. The current government has that distinction on Bertie: Bertie was elected because at first he delivered. This crowd promised a fairer country but have caused more hurt and pain while living lavishly. Ireland is a country where doctors, teachers, lecturers, businessmen, skilled tradespeople, etc. are the ones who are homeless because the regime has taken away their jobs. Yet, our TDs continue to keep all the perks Bertie introduced!
Irish politics is very seriously ill at present. Our leaders do not care about their people. As long as FG, FF, and Labour are lead by Kenny, Martin and Gilmore, they are ALL toxic muck that would make their late founders turn in their grave. SF are not the thing either and the indos are just fodder. God save Ireland from the anti-heroes!!0 -
BuilderPlumber wrote: »
. Ireland is a country where doctors, teachers, lecturers, businessmen, skilled tradespeople, etc. are the ones who are homeless because the regime has taken away their jobs. Yet, our TDs continue to keep all the perks Bertie introduced!
Irish politics is very seriously ill at present. Our leaders do not care about their people. As long as FG, FF, and Labour are lead by Kenny, Martin and Gilmore, they are ALL toxic muck that would make their late founders turn in their grave. SF are not the thing either and the indos are just fodder. God save Ireland from the anti-heroes!!
Is this bit a joke or sarcasm.0 -
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grainnewhale wrote: »s.f is led by somebody who put his country before his own personal safety.he put his life on the line for his country and stood up to the bullies. name one other party leader whp would be prepared to do this.
Sorry have to respond to this. The current leader of SF would be the most unsuitable person to lead this country. Whilst the other leaders have sins to confess to at least they do not have their hands drenched in blood from directly being responsible for murder. Adams does. He also was a parachuted candidate in Louth and initially seemed completely clueless about Politics down south of the border. He has questions to answer about his brothers child abuse of his niece. Maybe after he and all those directly involved in terrorist activities fade into the background then SF might become a viable option for the general population. Then again they have said one thing down here but have readily jumped onto the austerity bandwagon up in Northern Ireland so maybe we are looking at the party who will be taking Fianna Fails mantle in all ways as well
Going back on topic. Whilst I am not a major fan of this current Government we have to look at them in several different contexts. They inherited a complete and utter shambles from the previous monkeys (Michael saw no evil, heard no evil and spoke on evil in his 14 years at the cabinet table apparently!), we were already in the clutches of the troika by the time they took power so in reality they had to continue along the path that the FF led Government had already capitulated to. We also have a coalition Government which means that they will be less effective given the two different sets of agendas and policies in the parties. I really find it hard to comprehend that people do not realise that when a party is in coalition that compromises will have to occur. I believe that they have done a average job so far but have an awful lot more to achieve, they are certainly a major improvement on the FF led Governments that surrendered our financial sovereignty.
From my perspective and given the recent noises coming from Hanafin and Coughlin it looks like FF are just as toxic as before and are ready to continue along the same vein that led us to disaster. I am already seeing stories in the press and hearing directly from people involved in construction of the FF supporting developers starting to stoke the property fire again in the Dublin area. Think about this before you vote for FF or mini FF (SF) at the next elections.
As for the argument that this Government should be creating jobs in the PS area that is rubbish as well. If this Government want to reduce the dole queues it needs to bring the cost of public services down for businesses and allow the SME sector of this country to flourish. This is the only way you will make a major dent into the over four hundred thousand out of work at the moment.
FF should never be forgiven for the complete mess they made of our country whilst they were in power and remember its not the first time that they have nearly destroyed this country financially. Again like SF and their murderers if they at least dropped all those associated with the previous Governments failed stewardship of the country then people could contemplate that they had turned a corner but given that some of the rats are crawling back out from the rocks they scurried under when the going got tough then I think we know what kind of organisation they are. One that is extremely toxic to the well being of the citizens of this country.0 -
Sorry have to respond to this. The current leader of SF would be the most unsuitable person to lead this country. Whilst the other leaders have sins to confess to at least they do not have their hands drenched in blood from directly being responsible for murder. Adams does. He also was a parachuted candidate in Louth and initially seemed completely clueless about Politics down south of the border. He has questions to answer about his brothers child abuse of his niece. Maybe after he and all those directly involved in terrorist activities fade into the background then SF might become a viable option for the general population. Then again they have said one thing down here but have readily jumped onto the austerity bandwagon up in Northern Ireland so maybe we are looking at the party who will be taking Fianna Fails mantle in all ways as well
Going back on topic. Whilst I am not a major fan of this current Government we have to look at them in several different contexts. They inherited a complete and utter shambles from the previous monkeys (Michael saw no evil, heard no evil and spoke on evil in his 14 years at the cabinet table apparently!), we were already in the clutches of the troika by the time they took power so in reality they had to continue along the path that the FF led Government had already capitulated to. We also have a coalition Government which means that they will be less effective given the two different sets of agendas and policies in the parties. I really find it hard to comprehend that people do not realise that when a party is in coalition that compromises will have to occur. I believe that they have done a average job so far but have an awful lot more to achieve, they are certainly a major improvement on the FF led Governments that surrendered our financial sovereignty.
From my perspective and given the recent noises coming from Hanafin and Coughlin it looks like FF are just as toxic as before and are ready to continue along the same vein that led us to disaster. I am already seeing stories in the press and hearing directly from people involved in construction of the FF supporting developers starting to stoke the property fire again in the Dublin area. Think about this before you vote for FF or mini FF (SF) at the next elections.
As for the argument that this Government should be creating jobs in the PS area that is rubbish as well. If this Government want to reduce the dole queues it needs to bring the cost of public services down for businesses and allow the SME sector of this country to flourish. This is the only way you will make a major dent into the over four hundred thousand out of work at the moment.
FF should never be forgiven for the complete mess they made of our country whilst they we in power and remember its not the first time that they have nearly destroyed this country financially. Again like SF and their murderers if they at least dropped all those associated with the previous Governments failed stewardship of the country then people could contemplate that they had turned a corner but given that some of the rats are crawling back out from the rocks they scurried under when the going got tough then I think we know what kind of organisation they are. One that is extremely toxic to the well being of the citizens of this country.
what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.0 -
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