Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

And where did I deny it? Point that out to me please. It's well documented that he wanted No.1 status in McLaren. Ron Dennis did promise it and then went back on that during the season.

Alonso clearly stands as number 1 in the team, and he does it by leaving it clear as day that he is the No.1 by beating his team mate in Ferrari, and convincingly at that.

And how they anyone be happy with a car that hasn't even been built yet, let alone turn a wheel. The simulator? "I just think that I can learn nothing in the simulator". So your claim on that one is a bit thin.

It's clear now that, despite the evidence in hand (points, finishing positions, performance in the same car to date) you will argue to the end of the world that Kimi is somehow better than Alonso. I will give you credit though, you said you had faith that Kimi would be up there if he had the car, and faith is described as a belief in spite of, against or without evidence, so you are spot on actually.

Never said you denied it, but it comes back to my point that He is there number one driver, therefore the team and car is built around him
ie.
Car built to suit his style even though it may not be a great car, it would favour him.

Have you ever considered that Ferrari have put up with enough of him and realised the left the wrong driver go?

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Never said you denied it, but it comes back to my point that He is there number one driver, therefore the team and car is built around him
ie.
Car built to suit his style even though it may not be a great car, it would favour him.

Have you ever considered that Ferrari have put up with enough of him and realised the left the wrong driver go?

You mean the driver who he demolished every season they were teammates? Are you serious now?

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

You mean the driver who he demolished every season they were teammates? Are you serious now?

LOL

I was talking about Kimi. Not Massa.

Why do you think they brought him back ?

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

LOL

I was talking about Kimi. Not Massa.

Why do you think they brought him back ?

Massa wasn't up to scratch compared to Alonso, and I would hazard a guess that they thought Kimi would be performing to a better standard than Massa.

Why do you think they brought him back?

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Massa wasn't up to scratch compared to Alonso, and I would hazard a guess that they thought Kimi would be performing to a better standard than Massa.

Why do you think they brought him back?

Simple really
Kimi is their last wdc

Alonso fas failed to match that.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Simple really
Kimi is their last wdc

Alonso fas failed to match that.

Yet here is he beating him this year, maybe sticking with Massa would have been a better option. Not really worked out has it?

I think as well if you are going to say that Alonso has failed to deliver a championship, the blame falls more to Ferrari and not Alonso.

Daniel S

The pair of you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djK_ucSYpaw

vectra

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Right this Kimi crap has taken off once again. Let it go that enough

Not sure if that is pointed at me directly or who.
I am not putting or trying to make excuses for Kimi.
I am simply TRYING to get it across that the F14t was designed and built with Alonso's needs and nobody elses and this is why he appears to be so much better than his team mate this season.

Vettels cars were built specifically to suit his style over the past 4 seasons which he won 4 wdc's
Does that then make him a much better driver than Alonso?
Yet Alonso is beating him this season?

Sorry if you picked up up wrong.

vectra

Ficus wrote: »

Well maybe start a different thread and give this serious issue the discussion point you feel it deserves.

Funny thing is.
I was not discussing it with myself.
There was another member in case you missed that.

Should you not have said "You BOTH feel it deserves"

Anyhow.

Might be no need according to reports.
Next years car might be more suited to the other driver.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/09/alonso-frustrated-by-rumours-considering-honda-which-way-to-go/

James Allen on the situation. He is usually a good voice of reason in these situations.

And here are the total amount of teams he is linked with by newpaper:

Alonso to :
- Mclaren (Gazetta)
- Lotus (SporBild)
- Mercedes (Marca)
- RedBull (Gazetta, too)
- Williams (english journalist)
- Sabbatical Year (Bild)

Anyhow.

Might be no need according to reports.
Next years car might be more suited to the other driver.

Link to these reports? Or are they faith based again?

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/09/alonso-frustrated-by-rumours-considering-honda-which-way-to-go/

James Allen on the situation. He is usually a good voice of reason in these situations.

And here are the total amount of teams he is linked with by newpaper:

Alonso to :
- Mclaren (Gazetta)
- Lotus (SporBild)
- Mercedes (Marca)
- RedBull (Gazetta, too)
- Williams (english journalist)
- Sabbatical Year (Bild)



Link to these reports? Or are they faith based again?

I refuse to continue this with you
But just to add to your well researched list..

Luca is now gone and Mattiacci apparently is not his biggest fan.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

I refuse to continue this with you
But just to add to your well researched list..

Luca is now gone and Mattiacci apparently is not his biggest fan.

Once I call you out on your sources for these claims you leg it, I rest my case.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Once I call you out on your sources for these claims you leg it, I rest my case.

No
Wrong agin
Alonso will be the one to leg it.. :pac:

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

No
Wrong agin
Alonso will be the one to leg it.. :pac:

Ferrari losing their best driver would be a big shame, I guess thats why they are looking at Vettel or Hamilton to take up the lead role.

And you have failed to supply any evidence for your claims thus far.

Gillespy

Hopefully this will break the stalemate, have some potential liveries for next year. 18'' rims mightn't be the end of the world either.

http://wtf1.co.uk/f1-2015-concept-liveries/

Donnelly117

Gillespy wrote: »

Hopefully this will break the stalemate, have some potential liveries for next year. 18'' rims mightn't be the end of the world either.

http://wtf1.co.uk/f1-2015-concept-liveries/

I really like the McLaren!!

muckwarrior

They're not bad, but liveries tend to look better in pictures than on TV, so I don't think they're much of an improvement really.

Joeseph Balls

Will Marrussia be there next year even!!

Frank Bullitt

The HAAS Ferrari I can imagine having some god awful starts and stripes motif going on in real life.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Ferrari losing their best driver would be a big shame, I guess thats why they are looking at Vettel or Hamilton to take up the lead role.

And you have failed to supply any evidence for your claims thus far.

Ferrari lost their best driver in 2006
They lost the next one in 2009
Which one are you referring to?

Since they lost both of those they have won a big fat nothing only millions feeding Alonso's ego.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Ferrari lost their best driver in 2006
They lost the next one in 2009
Which one are you referring to?

Since they lost both of those they have won a big fat nothing only millions feeding Alonso's ego.

I'll agree they lost their best driver in 2006. As for 2009, thats laughable.

Here is a good article for you on why Ferrari need Alonso. Without Alonso, Ferrari right now would be even more laughable.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29166717

I quite like this quote in it.

Felipe Massa was ousted last season because he was not measuring up, and Raikkonen is doing no better than him compared to Alonso, who admittedly is about as tough a team-mate as you could have.

vectra

Well,
This is my final reply to this.

Kimi joined in 2007 and won the wdc,

Alonso joined in 2010, Has had 4 years with the team fully behind him and has not won any wdc,

Wether Alonso goes or stays I really don't care,
I am more interested in seeing what will happen next season when the car nor the team will be wrapped around his needs.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Well,
This is my final reply to this.

Kimi joined in 2007 and won the wdc,

Alonso joined in 2010, Has had 4 years with the team fully behind him and has not won any wdc,

Wether Alonso goes or stays I really don't care,
I am more interested in seeing what will happen next season when the car nor the team will be wrapped around his needs.

I hope it is your final response so the merry-go-round can finally stop.

Ill leave you with this. Alonso has 2 world championships, beating both Raikkonen and Schumacher in a head on fight, yet you will bring up Raikkonens one championship in a Ferrari to somehow counteract that. Raikkonen left the sport in for 2010 and 2011 and did anyone really miss him? He is only back in F1 because of Kubicas accident.

He has also more or less said he will retire after 2016, thats not the talk of a driver with huge commitment to the sport or his team.

Why should Ferrari even think about implementing your implied idea of a non number 1 driver, when Alonso has thoroughly trounced Massa and now Raikkonen in the same team. Its a tried and tested work ethos and Ferrari were very successful with when Michael was at the wheel, unlimited testing and massive budgets. in 2009 they had the dilemma of Massa, they couldn't just dropped him while he was out injured and it was clear as day Raikkonen was not the driver they needed in the long term to replace Michael, so they went for the best driver available in the field, and they have been punching above their weight ever since.

If you can not recognize that Alonso is one of the best, if not the best in the field at the minute, and that Raikkonen really isn't in the top 6, you don't watch F1 or listen to what other drivers and teams say about him in the paddock. Why is it that they are queuing up to try and get him in the car?

I'll sign off on a quote from Massa, when he was asked who he thought would do better between Alonso and Raikkonen. He said Alonso and why.

“Because he is very intelligent, he’s already worked out the new regulations and he knows what he needs to do to be quick straight away. He combines talent with savvy. He has a lively intelligence and that is what is needed with this change of regulations.

Good day, sir.

Gillespy

Who is the RB10 designed around? Big balls by Red Bull if they catered to the new guy and not the four time champion on a massive contract. The thing is Kimi has shown sporadically that he has the pace, I can think of Monaco and Spa, he came alive in qualifying on Saturday too. So he can do something with the car. Like with Seb, he has suffered loads of issues which haven't helped but they're clearly struggling regardless. No one can say RB isn't geared to Seb and I think it's a total cop out to say it about Kimi also. Brand new formula and they just haven't adapted to it yet.

Kimi has the consolation of being beaten by Alonso though. But I suspect in years to come, being beaten by Ricciardo won't look that either in the same way as Hamilton beating Alonso in 07.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

I hope it is your final response so the merry-go-round can finally stop.

Ill leave you with this. Alonso has 2 world championships, beating both Raikkonen and Schumacher in a head on fight, yet you will bring up Raikkonens one championship in a Ferrari to somehow counteract that.


Good day, sir.

Haha

So going on your theory Vettel is a better driver than Alonso?

Bye,

flazio

Going back to liveries, surely the only reason McLaren were silver was because of their former position as Works Mercedes team, now tht is going, surely it's time to drop the silver entirely?

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Haha

So going on your theory Vettel is a better driver than Alonso?

Bye,

Another red herring thrown in there.

Good lad.

The wheels will be fine, prototypes generally tend to look great or awful. More cooling and changes to the brakes etc. will improve the look of the wheels.

Frank Bullitt

flazio wrote: »

Going back to liveries, surely the only reason McLaren were silver was because of their former position as Works Mercedes team, now tht is going, surely it's time to drop the silver entirely?

It could change depending on the title sponsor they get.

Tea 1000

Ficus wrote: »

Can i remind people to not feed the troll.
If people want to discuss kimi further, start a different thread.
Anymore discussion will incur bans.
End of story.

Done!