Albert Quay - New Development

phatmanwc

Great news! Looking forward to following the progress, should be a great addition to the river frontage; speaking of which, does anyone know if there is any condition relating to upgrading of the quayside? This is a particularly grotty section of Albert Quay, and it would be great if this opportunity were used to smarten it up; some tasteful paving and bollards etc. perhaps, doesn't have to be a boardwalk!

Anyway, the bigger picture is fantastic, despite slight concerns about the height, and the aesthetics aren't going to set the world on fire either. The way things are though, I'll most certainly settle for this!

Oafley Jones

Whats there is terrible, but the city doesn't need more ugly office space - particularly in that area. Interesting the reaction here and the type of posters moved to greet this development. Astroturfing?

zetalambda

So what's your suggestion for the site?

Looks even worse from this view:

Oafley Jones

zetalambda wrote: »

So what's your suggestion for the site?

Looks even worse from this view:

That looks brutal alright. Given that perspective that's actually worse than what's there now. Still, there has to be a business case for what ever goes there. At the moment its...

1) Office Space
2) ?????????
3) Jobs.

While ignoring that we've a glut of number 1.

zetalambda

The IDA are saying that a lack of suitable office space in Cork, Dublin & Galway city centers is proving a barrier to foreign companies who want set up here. In a BBC radio interview a few weeks ago, Owen O' Callaghan said he is to resume development of new office space in the city center shortly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qflj0

What do you think of this office development planned for the old tax office? Certainly looks better than the Albert Quay project.

Oafley Jones

zetalambda wrote: »

The IDA are saying that a lack of suitable office space in Cork, Dublin & Galway city centers is proving a barrier to foreign companies who want set up here. In a BBC radio interview a few weeks ago, Owen O' Callaghan said he is to resume development of new office space in the city center shortly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qflj0


The IDA have some neck to suggest that. I've no idea about Galway and Dublin, but we're awash with it. Perhaps, the IDA meant that there's a lack of suitable office space with accompanying grants - stemmed from redevelopment of certain zones etc - that would make it attractive (in the short term) to prospective clients.

zetalambda wrote: »

do you think of this office development planned for the old tax office? Certainly looks better than the Albert Quay project.

Going by that alone, it seems much better. It's seems smaller than what's there and the building's mass is broken up by the design. Again, if there isn't a business case for it, it shouldn't go ahead.

Oafley Jones

Have to check out the o'callaghan interview, heard it went very poorly. Isn't lavitts quay his as well. Wonder will they get a tenant that will actually pay rent when apple vacate.

phatmanwc

The above photomontage, as far as I'm aware, is for a previous incarnation; the approved design is shown below:



Again, far from perfect, but the harder lines work better on the updated design, and are more sympathetic to the City Quarter development across the way, providing better 'framing' of the view downstream (IMO).

Oafley Jones

phatmanwc wrote: »

The above photomontage, as far as I'm aware, is for a previous incarnation; the approved design is shown below:



Again, far from perfect, but the harder lines work better on the updated design, and are more sympathetic to the City Quarter development across the way, providing better 'framing' of the view downstream (IMO).

It's certainly more grey. Framing my ass. Ask yourself does that picture look better with or without that building?

Rhys Essien

Are these the final plans?.If so,it is downsized to 5 storey and that god awful tin can shed is being left there.

http://www.bamcontractors.ie/public/userfiles/Files/AlbertQuayBrochure.pdf

the beer revolu

zetalambda wrote: »

Looks terrible alright.

I really like those buildings. Yes, they are in a sad state of decoration but I like the form of them. Those shallow arched roofs (bowstring trussed) are very much part of older Cork architecture and part of the character of Cork. We lost a lovely one (in good repair and condition) in Emmet place a few years ago when the Johnson and Perrot building was demolished to make way for the incredibly soulless and bland "opera Lane" outdoor shopping mall.

I've no particular beef with what is going in there and if Rhys' post is accurate I lament the loss of the pitched roof sheds but am glad that the "god awful tin can sheds" will remain - hopefully to be refurbished and given a proper use.

phatmanwc

Oafley Jones wrote: »

It's certainly more grey. Framing my ass. Ask yourself does that picture look better with or without that building?

If this were the only view to be considered, you might have a point, since you can't actually see the existing 'sheds' from this location.

Either way, the development will be far more obvious, and far more frequently seen from the Lapp's Quay area, and like I stated, while not perfect, I think it will be a vast improvement on what's there. Just my opinion.

I honestly can't see the architectural or aesthetic value of the existing buildings, which honestly look appalling to me. Maybe if they were in another location, there might be merit in preserving or renovating them (for instance, I would much rather see the bonded warehouses on Custom House Quay retained and renovated), but it's eyesores like these in prime locations that tend to lend Cork a somewhat shabby appearance/feeling at times.

I just think the opportunity to develop this site, and potentially bolster the local economy, shouldn't be missed at this time; Cork didn't benefit from any significant development in the City Centre/Docklands during the boom times, despite all the plans, so I'm not going to be one to be overly picky if a developer is confident enough to proceed with a development of this scale...:D

BUNK1982

Whatever about the architectural merits of this project - development in the city centre has to be welcomed.

Michael..

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Whatever about the architectural merits of this project - development in the city centre has to be welcomed.

Absolutely !!

Whatever people may thing about the design of contemporary office blocks, Cork City badly needs this.

We need to get people back into the city or else it'll die a death. There has been too much emphasis on out of city development.

This will hopefully bring an extra 2000 people into the city every day. Good for business and good for the city.

whisky_galore

zetalambda wrote: »

The IDA are saying that a lack of suitable office space in Cork, Dublin & Galway city centers is proving a barrier to foreign companies who want set up here. In a BBC radio interview a few weeks ago, Owen O' Callaghan said he is to resume development of new office space in the city center shortly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03qflj0

What do you think of this office development planned for the old tax office? Certainly looks better than the Albert Quay project.

Looks like an overgrown cd rack tbh. Won't improve with age.

whisky_galore

zetalambda wrote: »

Looks terrible alright.

The sheds to the lhs are empty afaik, the garish signage makes the others more crappy looking than they actually are. The sheds by the Custom House across the way look fit to fall down.

calnand

Makes for a nice photo though.

who_me

Any new development in the city IS really positive and appreciated. It may even help kick-start the docklands redevelopment. (It'd be great too if they could clean up the quayside on that side of the river, add a cafe or stalls etc.) It's just a pity that it often seems to come with a downside, and obviously when it's jobs vs anything, the jobs argument inevitably wins.

The building doesn't look bad from the front, but from other elevations it's just another big, bland box. Probably with air-conditioning units on the roof to make it uglier still. That's the problem I have with a lot of the newer buildings. They're just big cuboids with no features. Bland glass 'n' cladding surfaces with no details to catch the eye. No arches or recessed windows to add some shadow or shape. No gabled roofs or dormer windows to add something to the city's roofscape. Just big (usually, too big) bland boxes.

I've been following the developments and proposals on an architecture forum for some time, and some of the proposals for Cork were crazy. Building on bridges. Building in the middle of the river! Building a tall tower on the Custom House Quay (don't know how they'd squeeze that in). Building apartment blocks with fire-escapes for stairwells (to maximise the apartments they could fit into a tiny site). I think we have to have some kind of reign on what's built and isn't.

Lambofdave

Is there not a hotel to be part of the Sullivan Quay development?

vince

So is it the 5 story narrow building or the 8 story wider building we're getting

Michael..

who_me wrote: »

Any new development in the city IS really positive and appreciated. It may even help kick-start the docklands redevelopment. (It'd be great too if they could clean up the quayside on that side of the river, add a cafe or stalls etc.) It's just a pity that it often seems to come with a downside, and obviously when it's jobs vs anything, the jobs argument inevitably wins.

The building doesn't look bad from the front, but from other elevations it's just another big, bland box. Probably with air-conditioning units on the roof to make it uglier still. That's the problem I have with a lot of the newer buildings. They're just big cuboids with no features. Bland glass 'n' cladding surfaces with no details to catch the eye. No arches or recessed windows to add some shadow or shape. No gabled roofs or dormer windows to add something to the city's roofscape. Just big (usually, too big) bland boxes.

I've been following the developments and proposals on an architecture forum for some time, and some of the proposals for Cork were crazy. Building on bridges. Building in the middle of the river! Building a tall tower on the Custom House Quay (don't know how they'd squeeze that in). Building apartment blocks with fire-escapes for stairwells (to maximise the apartments they could fit into a tiny site). I think we have to have some kind of reign on what's built and isn't.

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Michael..

vince wrote: »

So is it the 5 story narrow building or the 8 story wider building we're getting

It's actually nine stories.

This is the one http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/boost-for-cork-as-50m-albert-quay-development-gets-go-ahead-259973.html

calnand

Michael.. wrote: »

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Most buildings built in the last 10/15 years haven't been designed by an architect though. Most are done by engineers, that design the cheapest and most efficient building design so a set structural grid and rectilinear plans. I know some parts of the elysian are not the nicest. But for office buildings you're not going to get architectural masterpieces, it's not worth it to the developer.

who_me

Michael.. wrote: »

Modern architecture is pretty lame compared to previous generations. For instance, look at the courthouse. It's a beautiful building that looks as good today as it did when it was built. Unfortunately, a lot of buildings built in the past 10, 15 years are already looking shabby.

With regards to the Albert Quay development, it isn't the worst design in the world. It's no courthouse, but if it entices 2,000 extra people into the city then I'm all for it.

I'd rather a building be covered in glass than that horrible plastic gladding that the Elysian is destroyed in - truly awful choice of material.

Personally, I actually don't mind too much if the docklands is full of 20..30..40 story modern towers. As you say, what tends to be built is disposable architecture that won't age well, so what would really annoy me is if a nicer older building is destroyed to make way for something cheap, functional, and ultimately, quite temporary.

We have a limited stock of older buildings (particularly in Cork, given its history). At least in the case of the building above it's just warehouses being demolished, but from the angle in the photos above the new development does look a bit awful next to the City Hall.

Incidentally, I saw some interesting designs too over the years, which after going through the planning process came out a lot more bland & unambitious. I wouldn't mind a very tall, modern building that was slender or had a bit of style to it. It's the chunky, ~6 story office cuboid blocks that eventually comes out of the planning process that I find least appealing.

zetalambda

whisky_galore wrote: »

Looks like an overgrown cd rack tbh. Won't improve with age.

Anything would be an improvement on what's currently there. Very few buildings do improve with age.

BUNK1982

It is a shame that the city council or planning authorities don't compel developers to submit proposals that have an architectural merit - the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh stadium being a case in point for me, or even to make more use of existing buildings (Wellington Road, Atkins Hall etc. Especially when you think that a small city like Cork could really carve out a niche for itself if it did.

That said, I think the 'glass cuboid' proposed above does fit into the location quite well - gives the place a kind of CBD feel.

Flesh Gorden

zetalambda wrote: »

Anything would be an improvement on what's currently there. Very few buildings do improve with age.

I'd be glad to see that thing demolished, reminds me of the latter parts of A Clockwork Orange.

Has to be one of the ugliest and most out of place buildings in Ireland.
Up there with the Kane in UCC, and the likes of Central Bank and SIPTU buildings in Dublin.

opus

Lambofdave wrote: »

Is there not a hotel to be part of the Sullivan Quay development?

Was originally supposed to be a hotel but that's died a death I believe. Last thing I saw was that an office building is planned now. Have a look at the website here (cheesy music warning!) - http://www.thequaycork.com/

Would agree that pretty much anything would be better than the concrete monstrosity that's there at present!

phatmanwc

opus wrote: »

Would agree that pretty much anything would be better than the concrete monstrosity that's there at present!

Am I the only one that actually quite likes the existing building? I find it quite imposing, and very much an established part of the street-scape looking along the Parade, maybe in much the same way as I like the original Boole Library in UCC.

Fair enough, it certainly appears a tad shabby up close, and could do with some TLC, but much better than the redevelopment proposal posted above...

the beer revolu

phatmanwc wrote: »

Am I the only one that actually quite likes the existing building? I find it quite imposing, and very much an established part of the street-scape looking along the Parade, maybe in much the same way as I like the original Boole Library in UCC.

Fair enough, it certainly appears a tad shabby up close, and could do with some TLC, but much better than the redevelopment proposal posted above...

No you're not.
I think that building has great form and lines.
But yes, very shabby.
It also houses hundreds of students and artists, creating a vibrant cultural hub in the city.