Liebherr thread

listrybabe

WikiHow wrote: »

I like to keep up to current affairs thats all.

another couple titbits for you, yea their is more than one union,electricians also have their own union, and office staff are not allowed to join siptu or any other union, any idea why ? think !!

michael999999

WikiHow wrote: »

I like to keep up to current affairs thats all.

Don't bitel. She's been fishing for a few days now!

b.harte

[Chomp]

listrybabe wrote: »

blah - blah - blah...not allowed to join siptu or any other union, any idea why ? think !!

Oh a conspiracy theory!
I'm assuming (seeing as you have the inside knowledge and all) that you and others are aware that everyone has a legal right, actually enshrined in our constitution, to be a part of a union - or not, if they so wish.
No company can prevent someone from being a member of a union - all they can do is not engage directly with a union, should they not wish to do so. It doesn't stop mediation through a 3rd party should the need arise.
So..is it that people simply don't want to be a member of a union perhaps?
Or, given your inside edge was there any effort to join a union by the "office staff"
I would doubt if there is any specific reference to "not being allowed to join a union" or such as this would be open to a challenge. Also, anyone who does join a union can't be treated differently as a result, no company would be so naive as to take a hard (dismissal) line against someone for being a part of a union - even if they (the company) didn't recognise it.
As for your "titbit" about other unions - is it even relevant to the current discussion as it appears to be only siptu that are rejecting the proposals.

But, do keep it up - you're gas.

toffee dave

b.harte wrote: »

[Chomp]

Oh a conspiracy theory!
I'm assuming (seeing as you have the inside knowledge and all) that you and others are aware that everyone has a legal right, actually enshrined in our constitution, to be a part of a union - or not, if they so wish.
No company can prevent someone from being a member of a union - all they can do is not engage directly with a union, should they not wish to do so. It doesn't stop mediation through a 3rd party should the need arise.
So..is it that people simply don't want to be a member of a union perhaps?
Or, given your inside edge was there any effort to join a union by the "office staff"
I would doubt if there is any specific reference to "not being allowed to join a union" or such as this would be open to a challenge. Also, anyone who does join a union can't be treated differently as a result, no company would be so naive as to take a hard (dismissal) line against someone for being a part of a union - even if they (the company) didn't recognise it.
As for your "titbit" about other unions - is it even relevant to the current discussion as it appears to be only siptu that are rejecting the proposals.

But, do keep it up - you're gas.

And you are a condesending arsehole, who does not have a clue about what is going on in Liebherr.

Scortho

toffee dave wrote: »

And you are a condesending arsehole, who does not have a clue about what is going on in Liebherr.

So tell us what is?

Anyone hear what this 11 point plan is?

greengold96

Scortho wrote: »

So tell us what is?

Anyone hear what this 11 point plan is?

If it doesnt bother you,dont worry ur head ...

Scortho

greengold96 wrote: »

If it doesnt bother you,dont worry ur head ...

I'd like to know, but no one will come on and post what it is!
If it's so awful, then why hasn't it been publicised by siptu to try gain public support.

As it stands it looks like a handful of employees have thrown their toys out of the pram over a minuscule pay increase in return for these 11 conditions as they were made out to be awful changes in work practices.
What are these 11 changes?

michael999999

Scortho wrote: »

I'd like to know, but no one will come on and post what it is!
If it's so awful, then why hasn't it been publicised by siptu to try gain public support.

As it stands it looks like a handful of employees have thrown their toys out of the pram over a minuscule pay increase in return for these 11 conditions as they were made out to be awful changes in work practices.
What are these 11 changes?

There afraid to put it up because it blows there excuses out of the water. I'd say half the people that voted against it probably haven't even read it!

Odelay

Scortho wrote: »

I'd like to know, but no one will come on and post what it is!
If it's so awful, then why hasn't it been publicised by siptu to try gain public support.

As it stands it looks like a handful of employees have thrown their toys out of the pram over a minuscule pay increase in return for these 11 conditions as they were made out to be awful changes in work practices.
What are these 11 changes?

Exactly, if it's so terrible that its worth closing the plant over, what is it? Must be absoutley horrific?

Why do I ask? Well maybe someday I'll have to face such a terrible 11 point plan.

Nekarsulm

Go onto Donedeal, go into farming section, look at the ads for Sheds in Co. Kerry!

Scortho

greengold96 wrote: »

If it doesnt bother u,dont worry ur head...

You keep saying this as opposed to answering any questions?

What's the staff trying to hide?
Also a bit of reality for you, no strike is own without public support

michael999999

Scortho wrote: »

You keep saying this as opposed to answering any questions?

What's the staff trying to hide?
Also a bit of reality for you, no strike is own without public support

I've a feeling that's listrys alter ego!

toffee dave

greengold96 wrote: »

If it doesnt bother you,dont worry ur head ...

Dont bite.michael999999 has been fishing for the past few day's.

Sir Arthur Daley

Excellent debate altogether :rolleyes:

Axel Lamp

Just trying to get the thread locked I suppose. Anything but tell us what the 11 conditions are.

Odelay

greengold96 wrote: »

If it doesnt bother u,dont worry ur head...

You keep saying that but it does worry/bother me, what is this terrible 11 point plan that may, at some stage be copied and be enforced by my employers? If it is so terrible there would be no shame in posting it?

Sir Arthur Daley

Odelay wrote: »

You keep saying that but it does worry/bother me, what is this terrible 11 point plan that may, at some stage be copied and be enforced by my employers? If it is so terrible there would be no shame in posting it?

Dont be feeding the troll.

Axel Lamp

Posts have been reported

michael999999

Its pretty obvious why liebherr seem to be taking a tough stance. Imagine having these guys working for you with this attitude!

They really are an embarrassment to our county!

Pinch Flat

siptu, killing geese who lay golden eggs since the early 20th century. The reality is the union officials with rather see the plant close. Sadly has happened here many times before. Feel sad for the majority staff who want to keep their jobs and life style - life without this blue chip employer life looks bleak down there.

listrybabe

listrybabe wrote: »

you seem to do a lot of thinking

In SIPTU, boy, we don't got no truck fer yer fancy "thinking'".

toffee dave

Odelay wrote: »

You keep saying that but it does worry/bother me, what is this terrible 11 point plan that may, at some stage be copied and be enforced by my employers? If it is so terrible there would be no shame in posting it?

I really dont think an employee should post details of the plan on a public forum.It should be left up to the company or Siptu to do that.

The_Honeybadger

toffee dave wrote: »

I really dont think an employee should post details of the plan on a public forum.It should be left up to the company or Siptu to do that.

A short summary of the plan would do no harm. If the workers in question want to hide behind this infamous plan as the reason for their behaviour then they should at least give people the gist of it. They are doing themselves no favours and public opinion is firmly against them at the minute, maybe unfairly, but from the outside looking in it looks like they are being petty and unreasonable. Of course we don't have all the facts. Hope it gets resolved, it would be such a shame to see jobs go at the plant needlessly, most of the workers there wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting a comparable job / salary locally again.

toffee dave

michael999999 wrote: »

Its pretty obvious why liebherr seem to be taking a tough stance. Imagine having these guys working for you with this attitude!

They really are an embarrassment to our county!

You really dont need anyone to embarrass you.You are doing a superb job of that by yourself.You come on here and post myths and gossip about the dispute at Liebherr.You remind me of that guy during the gulf war.Comical Ali."No, no there are no American tanks in Bagdad"( Ah' there behind you).Although i will say one thing for you.You have become a great source of amusement for alot of people i work with.

Bactidiaryl

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Go onto Donedeal, go into farming section, look at the ads for Sheds in Co. Kerry!

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

Nekarsulm

Ad gone now, was advertising large building deemed suitable for wide range of agricultural uses. Lots of cheap local labour also available to fork in feed to animals. phone Hans, priced at 1 euro.

Bactidiaryl

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Ad gone now, was advertising large building deemed suitable for wide range of agricultural uses. Lots of cheap local labour also available to fork in feed to animals. phone Hans, priced at 1 euro.

Should have gave the no. of local siptu rep.

beertons

playeda wrote: »

Do Lieber own one of the big hotels in Killarney?

http://tasktojob.com/index.php?task=61577

I think they own the Europa.

Axel Lamp

Indo today

FYI Liebherr own the Hotel Europe and Dunloe Castle in Killarney as well as Hotel Ard na Sidhe on the Ring of Kerry.

Boskowski

I don't know the ins and outs like pretty much anyone else here.

But from the outside it seems mad that some of the workforce are willing to risk everything over what seems petty compared to whats at stake.
Especially in the current climate and especially with a setup that goes back to sentimental ties rather than economical calculation. And Kerry isn't exactly prime target for heavy industry investors either.

Even rejecting labour court mediation.

From the outside it looks like the part of the workforce responsible for this are seriously overplaying their hand and are acting recklessly on behalf of the entire workforce and the region.

If they are not willing or capable of publicly representing their position in a reasonable manner they will simply have to live with the fact that the rest of the country thinks they're stone mad greedy me feiners.

The attitude shown here by those who advocate this gamble doesn't exactly help either.

handlemaster

Crazy move by SIPTU. Even if it is eventually excepted the relations have now been damaged
Future investment will stop.

Nekarsulm

similar set up near me back in the mid 90's. Company called McCormack Products. Union advised reject proposed pay deal and when the vote was held,, and the pay deal was rejected, there were scenes reminiscent of an election victory count. Anyway, companyclosed down and 300 laid off. A few of the truck drivers bought the lorries they had been driving and soldiered on for a few years, but most never worked again. Factory only came back into use in the last three years when HB ice cream started production.

dsgking

was it mentioned in one of the papers that it was something to do with having set holidays in august for everyone and less overtime, and bonuses?

wait til next week, the teeu (electrician's union) want there members to go on strike all over Ireland, bad timing, could be the nail on the coffin

Sir Arthur Daley

dsgking wrote: »

wait til next week, the teeu (electrician's union) want there members to go on strike all over Ireland, bad timing, could be the nail on the coffin

What is the reason for this do you know?

dsgking

info here;

http://www.teeu.ie/2014_01_19.asp

stop animal cruelty

apprentley some of the people protesting are gonna pull out....they fecking better!!!

Sir Arthur Daley

stop animal cruelty wrote: »

apprentley some of the people protesting are gonna pull out....they fecking better!!!

The electricians or Siptu members do you know?

stop animal cruelty

WikiHow wrote: »

The electricians or Siptu members do you know?

siptu lm pretty sure

holyhead

If a Union rep is reading these boards I would like to point out that employee rights aren't much use to an employee when they are on the dole. I hope the workers aren't left crying over spilt milk. If media reports are right and this dispute revolves around backdated payrise then this dispute is an embarassment to this country. Explain your grievance to the ten of thousands who for economic necessity have had to leave Ireland in the last 6 years. I imagine they would give there left leg for a position in Liebherr. A company which has been historically a very good employer in Kerry which rules out the whole race to the bottom line Unions often trot out. Please god they stay.

I really hope the Unions have a brilliant explanation for this strike or better still see sense, and call it off.

keane2097

listrybabe wrote: »

just wondering do any of ye know whats going on at liebherr, is it a case of liebherr being greedy or should the workers be happy to be in employment , what are yere thoughts on this as it is getting a lot of air time on kerry radio . personally i think they should be happy to have a wage (i dont ) but then again i dont know the facts, any opinions?

listrybabe wrote: »

50 k basic you cannot be serious,, for welders and fitters etc, i know they do a lot of over time and have bonuses and shift allowance as well, how much you reckon they on when all that is totted up, must be savage total are they mad to be on pickets etc:mad:

listrybabe wrote: »

their has been industrial action 3 times i think , its on kerry radio website if you want to look it up

listrybabe wrote: »

sounds like a very lky git,

listrybabe wrote: »

i really doubt if any factory worker is on 50k basic, but then maybe micheal99999 is correct in saying that, sounds ludicrous if they picketing whilst earning that kind of money

Works there alright yeah :rolleyes:

michael999999

keane2097 wrote: »

Works there alright yeah :rolleyes:

I think there's a few trolls in here going under nerous different alias!

juve39

To michael999999 and all the other people tell lies on here, when i started with liebherr in 2008 they were selling 12 cranes per year: this year 40+, they have not suffered the recession cause they deal in the global economy,it benifited them cause they have more trades people available which was always a problem,and have been able to justify cost cutting meassures saving in excess of 15% ,what liebherr is doing is very smart they ate running a pr campaign against tha workers of lies and half truths,what you dont hear about is the bullying and harrasment going on inside there and the dangerous and unhealthy working conditions,they signed up to the T16 wage agreement with an added clause which would exempt them from paying if the could plead inability to pay,63 million profit,by the way the corporate tax rate in germany is 35% ---irelands 12.5 %, and there was strikes in they'er german plants last year, try to see through the bull**** instead of indorseing it,companies all over ireland are trying to drive workers rights into the ground for they'er own selfish gains,we're standing up for our rights ,no more no less.PS michael999999 dont spend all your life on line talking **** about people you dont know, and you and your buddys should stop ganging up on listrybabe just cause she has a different opinion to you , you make yourself look like a bigger arsehole picking on a girl, god bless

michael999999

Some people need to give up drinking during the day!

marienbad

juve39 wrote: »

To michael999999 and all the other people tell lies on here, when i started with liebherr in 2008 they were selling 12 cranes per year: this year 40+, they have not suffered the recession cause they deal in the global economy,it benifited them cause they have more trades people available which was always a problem,and have been able to justify cost cutting meassures saving in excess of 15% ,what liebherr is doing is very smart they ate running a pr campaign against tha workers of lies and half truths,what you dont hear about is the bullying and harrasment going on inside there and the dangerous and unhealthy working conditions,they signed up to the T16 wage agreement with an added clause which would exempt them from paying if the could plead inability to pay,63 million profit,by the way the corporate tax rate in germany is 35% ---irelands 12.5 %, and there was strikes in they'er german plants last year, try to see through the bull**** instead of indorseing it,companies all over ireland are trying to drive workers rights into the ground for they'er own selfish gains,we're standing up for our rights ,no more no less.PS michael999999 dont spend all your life on line talking **** about people you dont know, and you and your buddys should stop ganging up on listrybabe just cause she has a different opinion to you , you make yourself look like a bigger arsehole picking on a girl, god bless

Can you give us some info on this 11 point plan please ?

Wurzelbert

juve39 wrote: »

To michael999999 and all the other people tell lies on here, when i started with liebherr in 2008 they were selling 12 cranes per year: this year 40+, they have not suffered the recession cause they deal in the global economy,it benifited them cause they have more trades people available which was always a problem,and have been able to justify cost cutting meassures saving in excess of 15% ,what liebherr is doing is very smart they ate running a pr campaign against tha workers of lies and half truths,what you dont hear about is the bullying and harrasment going on inside there and the dangerous and unhealthy working conditions,they signed up to the T16 wage agreement with an added clause which would exempt them from paying if the could plead inability to pay,63 million profit,by the way the corporate tax rate in germany is 35% ---irelands 12.5 %, and there was strikes in they'er german plants last year, try to see through the bull**** instead of indorseing it,companies all over ireland are trying to drive workers rights into the ground for they'er own selfish gains,we're standing up for our rights ,no more no less.[...]

do liebherr employees get toilet breaks? and i heard they employ children in some underground cave workshop without heating or ventilation…i just wasn’t aware at all of how bad things really are at liebherr…i only know some of their german factories and many german liebherr employees and all seems grand there somehow…i was told in germany they even get toilet breaks…seems they all lied to me…maybe that company should be expelled from ireland or just have the decency and good sense to close shop and leave…

Sir Arthur Daley

Wurzelbert wrote: »

do liebherr employees get toilet breaks?

I hear they use these :rolleyes:

http://www.stadiumpal.com/

Wurzelbert

WikiHow wrote: »

I hear they use these :rolleyes:

http://www.stadiumpal.com/

ah yes, typical for that sinister sort of exploitation going on at liebherr…and i assume workers have to buy their own stadium pal kits…:rolleyes:

crockholm

juve39 wrote: »

To michael999999 and all the other people tell lies on here, when i started with liebherr in 2008 they were selling 12 cranes per year: this year 40+, they have not suffered the recession cause they deal in the global economy,it benifited them cause they have more trades people available which was always a problem,and have been able to justify cost cutting meassures saving in excess of 15% ,what liebherr is doing is very smart they ate running a pr campaign against tha workers of lies and half truths,what you dont hear about is the bullying and harrasment going on inside there and the dangerous and unhealthy working conditions,they signed up to the T16 wage agreement with an added clause which would exempt them from paying if the could plead inability to pay,63 million profit,by the way the corporate tax rate in germany is 35% ---irelands 12.5 %, and there was strikes in they'er german plants last year, try to see through the bull**** instead of indorseing it,companies all over ireland are trying to drive workers rights into the ground for they'er own selfish gains,we're standing up for our rights ,no more no less.PS michael999999 dont spend all your life on line talking **** about people you dont know, and you and your buddys should stop ganging up on listrybabe just cause she has a different opinion to you , you make yourself look like a bigger arsehole picking on a girl, god bless

It's Always good to hear the other side of the arguement,but in my opinion,listry babe did not do a great job of conveying the grievances of the workers.This dispute is something I would like to know more about.What are the aims of those who want to strike? Is the Company acting unfairly or unlawfully? Thanks in advance juve

Wurzelbert

crockholm wrote: »

It's Always good to hear the other side of the arguement,but in my opinion,listry babe did not do a great job of conveying the grievances of the workers.This dispute is something I would like to know more about.What are the aims of those who want to strike? Is the Company acting unfairly or unlawfully? Thanks in advance juve

absolutely correct...but with the almost complete lack of detail the whole thing so far comes across to me more like ideologically heated prefab leftist union talk...have to say i really find it hard to believe things at the irish liebherr plant are all that bad, not least compared to other companies around here and all...but correct me if i’m wrong, anyone...
and what does the corporate tax rate have to do with it all? if that was the only factor for german companies to set up shop in ireland, they would all be here...so just why aren’t they? make no mistake about it, liebherr does not need a factory in ireland...

marienbad

Wurzelbert wrote: »

absolutely correct...but with the almost complete lack of detail the whole thing so far comes across to me more like ideologically heated prefab leftist union talk...have to say i really find it hard to believe things at the irish liebherr plant are all that bad, not least compared to other companies around here and all...but correct me if i’m wrong, anyone...
and what does the corporate tax rate have to do with it all? if that was the only factor for german companies to set up shop in ireland, they would all be here...so just why aren’t they? make no mistake about it, liebherr does not need a factory in ireland...

And they were here long long before corporate tax breaks and grant aid on the scale it is today.