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Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

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    #362
    johndaman66
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    Apologies in advance as this has most likely being addressed in the thread already but its late on a Sunday night and the thread is of a considerable length at this stage. I went sale agreed in the last two weeks (buyer) and dont expect the sale to be finalised before the end of November deadline for registering with Irish water to avail of allowances.

    Am I unfortunate that I'm not going to avail of allowances like others who register before 30/11/2014?


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    #363
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    johndaman66 wrote: »
    Apologies in advance as this has most likely being addressed in the thread already but its late on a Sunday night and the thread is of a considerable length at this stage. I went sale agreed in the last two weeks (buyer) and dont expect the sale to be finalised before the end of November deadline for registering with Irish water to avail of allowances.

    Am I unfortunate that I'm not going to avail of allowances like others who register before 30/11/2014?

    No pb, you'll get the allowances. As you won't be the occupier when the deadline
    ends, they can't expect you to register.

    You can just ring them whenever you move in and tell them you are a new customer for that address.


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    #364
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The house I rent has a private well and the landlord is very poor at legalities. Do we have to register even so? Happy to do so.


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    #365
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Graces7 wrote: »
    The house I rent has a private well and the landlord is very poor at legalities. Do we have to register even so? Happy to do so.

    The resident of the house has to register.
    You should complete your water registration pack- advise of the fact that your sole source of water (if it is your sole source) is the well- and whether or not you are connected to a waste water/sewage system (or have your own septic tank).

    If you have your own well, and your own septic tank- you owe nothing- but you are supposed to register anyway.

    You do however have to have your septic tank inspected and the fees associated with its use (which is to the council, not Irish Water) would be due from the resident of the dwelling (as the act is phrased to make it a charge on usage).


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    #366
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    The resident of the house has to register.
    You should complete your water registration pack- advise of the fact that your sole source of water (if it is your sole source) is the well- and whether or not you are connected to a waste water/sewage system (or have your own septic tank).

    If you have your own well, and your own septic tank- you owe nothing- but you are supposed to register anyway.

    You do however have to have your septic tank inspected and the fees associated with its use (which is to the council, not Irish Water) would be due from the resident of the dwelling (as the act is phrased to make it a charge on usage).

    OK I get it. Thank you. Wondering re the septic tank though as that is surely structure not utility if it needs work?


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    #367
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Graces7 wrote: »
    OK I get it. Thank you. Wondering re the septic tank though as that is surely structure not utility if it needs work?

    A sepic tank in wholly the responsibility of the occupant. You are obliged to register it with the council, are liable to inspection, and responsible for it's maintenance and repair.


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    #368
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Brandon Green Schoolyard wrote: »
    A sepic tank in wholly the responsibility of the occupant. You are obliged to register it with the council, are liable to inspection, and responsible for it's maintenance and repair.

    I have to admit I know nothing about septic tanks or the rules and regs that govern them but I can't see too many tenants signing up to that one. Old septic tanks that need a serious overhaul could run to thousands. How could any landlord or county council for that matter, expect a tenant to pay for that.


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    #369
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    emeldc wrote: »
    I have to admit I know nothing about septic tanks or the rules and regs that govern them but I can't see too many tenants signing up to that one. Old septic tanks that need a serious overhaul could run to thousands. How could any landlord or county council for that matter, expect a tenant to pay for that.

    There was a huge grant offered if you signed up and registered.


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    #370
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    There was a huge grant offered if you signed up and registered.

    To the tenants?


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    #371
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Talk of attaching charges to house if unpaid, of course we will have to see detail tomorrow, but interesting to see how this will work for rentals.


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    #372
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    emeldc wrote: »
    To the tenants?

    No, property owner as they are responsible for the tank.


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    #373
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    No, property owner as they are responsible for the tank.

    But that's my question. Why would the tenant be responsible for its maintenance or repair?
    I think we all know most tenants wouldn't replace as much as a light bulb if they thought they could get the LL to do it. I really can't see too many tenants on any kind of short term leases forking out for repairs to a septic tank no matter what the rules say.


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    #374
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    emeldc wrote: »
    But that's my question. Why would the tenant be responsible for its maintenance or repair?
    I think we all know most tenants wouldn't replace as much as a light bulb if they thought they could get the LL to do it. I really can't see too many tenants on any kind of short term leases forking out for repairs to a septic tank no matter what the rules say.
    The property owner was responsible for bringing the tank up to code and could avail of the grants to do so. Any sitting tenants should have ensured this was done. Any new tenants should ensure the property is up to code.

    In any case the cost of maintanence will be borne by the tenant, either directly or through increased rents.


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    #375
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Brandon Green Schoolyard wrote: »
    A sepic tank in wholly the responsibility of the occupant. You are obliged to register it with the council, are liable to inspection, and responsible for it's maintenance and repair.
    runawaybishop wrote: »
    In any case the cost of maintanence will be borne by the tenant, either directly or through increased rents.

    You can't increase the rent mid lease and you have no chance of getting it directly so the bottom line is, the tenant can't be responsible. At least that's the way I see it but we can agree to disagree. Might be going a bit off topic anyway.


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    #376
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    ah well.. I have no money and until the landlord raises the issue... I mean what can they do...happy to go squat in the woods if need be! The tank is part of the fabric of the rental like the roof that needs repairing. Not my job.


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    #377
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Talk of attaching charges to house if unpaid, of course we will have to see detail tomorrow, but interesting to see how this will work for rentals.

    Fascinating indeed! I will let the landlord sort this out. He is still deep in property tax payments and paperwork so no hurry.. but I am sure the tank will be classed as structure.


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    #378
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Fascinating indeed! I will let the landlord sort this out. He is still deep in property tax payments and paperwork so no hurry.. but I am sure the tank will be classed as structure.

    Graces7- it is your duty as tenant to return the completed pack to Irish Water- regardless of whether, or not, there are any monies due (and it would appear from your case- that there are no monies due). You, as tenant, are presumed to owe the money- until such time as you complete the pack and return, making a declaration that you do not.

    You have nothing to loose in your case- as you don't owe any money- however, you could be pursued for non-payment- if you don't complete and return the declaration in the pack............

    Don't leave it up to the landlord to make the return- its actually not his responsibility- as in most cases of rental property (not your case)- the amount due would be determined by the number and age profile of the inhabitants.

    You really have nothing to loose by making the declaration- and a whole lot of hassle- if you fail to do so...........


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    #379
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Graces7- it is your duty as tenant to return the completed pack to Irish Water- regardless of whether, or not, there are any monies due (and it would appear from your case- that there are no monies due). You, as tenant, are presumed to owe the money- until such time as you complete the pack and return, making a declaration that you do not.

    You have nothing to loose in your case- as you don't owe any money- however, you could be pursued for non-payment- if you don't complete and return the declaration in the pack............

    Don't leave it up to the landlord to make the return- its actually not his responsibility- as in most cases of rental property (not your case)- the amount due would be determined by the number and age profile of the inhabitants.

    You really have nothing to loose by making the declaration- and a whole lot of hassle- if you fail to do so...........

    So far I have no such pack.. probably the landlord is sitting on the paperwork so next time I see him... I had to intervene re the property tax with him too. Rural Ireland! He may well have completed it already of course. As his house and this one have private supplies. Am very unwell just now and abed.


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    #380
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    emeldc wrote: »
    You can't increase the rent mid lease and you have no chance of getting it directly so the bottom line is, the tenant can't be responsible. At least that's the way I see it but we can agree to disagree. Might be going a bit off topic anyway.

    Who said anything about increasing the rent mid lease?


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    #381
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Folks you're straying off topic, can we get back to discussing water charges.

    Thanks


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    #382
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Folks you're straying off topic, can we get back to discussing water charges.

    Thanks

    Occupier liable, legislation to be prepared allowing charges to be deducted from rental deposit.


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    #383
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭Daith


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Occupier liable, legislation to be prepared allowing charges to be deducted from rental deposit.

    If a tenant doesn't pay his bills will IW notify the landlord?

    Presume IW will be able to produce a final bill for anyone finishing their tenancy before April 1st? Or indeed at any time so tenants aren't waiting months for their bill to come through.


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    #384
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Occupier liable, legislation to be prepared allowing charges to be deducted from rental deposit.

    Do not argue a mod warning on thread, it's against the site rules and charter.


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    #385
    frippy
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭frippy


    From the Independent:
    http** independent.ie/irish-news/water/ irish-water-crisis/landlords-wont-tolerate-plans-to-hand-over-deposits-of-tenants-who-dont-pay-water-charges-30758639.html
    The Irish Property Owners' Association (IPOA) has tonight indicated that it will not cooperate with plans to oblige landlords to hand over deposits belonging to tenants who refuse to pay.

    The IPOA also said it is "horrified" at proposals that would see landlords inhibited from taking on new tenants until previous bills were settled.


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    #386
    Seanachai
    Registered Users Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    They must actually want to leave government, this is going to boil people.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/council-tenants-face-rent-increases-and-possible-eviction-if-water-bills-not-paid-1.2008990


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    #387
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Seanachai wrote: »
    They must actually want to leave government, this is going to boil people.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/council-tenants-face-rent-increases-and-possible-eviction-if-water-bills-not-paid-1.2008990

    If we have to pay, why should council tenants be any different to any other type of tenant ?


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    #388
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    emeldc wrote: »
    If we have to pay, why should council tenants be any different to any other type of tenant ?

    And why should private landlords be treated any worse than councils?
    This whole thing is a mess, if they were charging they'd have gotten away with a flat rate,
    they pushed too far on the back of years of austerity with a couldnt care less attitude.
    Its a complete cluster fcuk and the latest threat that they are not for turning and that non payers will be charged 1600, shows they have only temporarily changed their tune.
    This needs to go to its end game, this Govt has long since lost the support of people from wide across the social spectrum and people need to give them a good sending off, bye bye idiots.


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    #389
    Boo2112
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Boo2112


    We moved In at the start of September and our landlord rang us for our pps numbers and I never thought anything of it and gave them to her and then she informed me that she was goin to sign up to IW on our behalf. Is this allowed? Surely she should have sent the pack out to us to fill it in, she refused when I asked her and didn't tell us what the pps numbers were for until after I had given them to her.

    Also we have a leak for the past week and the tank is constantly filling, she got a plumber out to look at it and when he told her it was under one of the floors she wasn't impressed and is dragging her heels a bit. Are we being metered and expected to pay for this water leaking out when we have no power to stop it?


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    #390
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Boo2112 wrote: »
    We moved In at the start of September and our landlord rang us for our pps numbers and I never thought anything of it and gave them to her and then she informed me that she was goin to sign up to IW on our behalf. Is this allowed? Surely she should have sent the pack out to us to fill it in, she refused when I asked her and didn't tell us what the pps numbers were for until after I had given them to her.

    Also we have a leak for the past week and the tank is constantly filling, she got a plumber out to look at it and when he told her it was under one of the floors she wasn't impressed and is dragging her heels a bit. Are we being metered and expected to pay for this water leaking out when we have no power to stop it?

    Have you not been following the news for the last week? Capped for the next few years.

    For future reference, don't give LL your PPSN in the future. She should not have asked for it and should not be applying on your behalf


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    #391
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    Have you not been following the news for the last week? Capped for the next few years.

    For future reference, don't give LL your PPSN in the future. She should not have asked for it and should not be applying on your behalf

    Aren't they also used in the PRTB registration? It's a new tenancy, the landlord may be in the process of registering there too.


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