Seattle Nissan Leaf Reaches 100,000 Miles !

Cleveland Hot Pocket

colm_mcm wrote: »

Surely the horse would be very efficient but has limited range and performance?

Not to mention the long recharge times

Scottie99

The argument was more about change

colm_mcm

I reckon as soon as you can get 200 miles per charge, people will take notice.
I'd love an EV, I'd have no problem on my commute, but there's no way I'd plan my trips around charging.

As mad lad says, tesla make the other manufacturers look outdated.

OT but, when is public EV charging gonna be billed or is it already?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

colm_mcm wrote: »

I reckon as soon as you can get 200 miles per charge, people will take notice.
I'd love an EV, I'd have no problem on my commute, but there's no way I'd plan my trips around charging.

As mad lad says, tesla make the other manufacturers look outdated.

OT but, when is public EV charging gonna be billed or is it already?

This is the crux, I use the car to facilitate me. Not the other way round!
As mentioned, I would have an EV tomorrow for the commute and short trips if it would save me money!

Scottie99

colm_mcm wrote: »

I reckon as soon as you can get 200 miles per charge, people will take notice.
I'd love an EV, I'd have no problem on my commute, but there's no way I'd plan my trips around charging.

As mad lad says, tesla make the other manufacturers look outdated.

OT but, when is public EV charging gonna be billed or is it already?

There's no firm date concerning charging. I did though get a survey call from ESB concerning FC points. They asked me my thoughts on €5 for 100% charge. :mad:

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

That was my whole point to the other clown. It's not about performance, it's about doing short trips cheaply. Going on about its performance is stupid.

The demo I drove was last years model. It was over in galway. The salesman was actually very good, he had one himself.

The leaf is more than powerful for most people and the instant torque is a joy, it's not over rated by any means.

Of course a lot of people loyal to petrol and diesel won't automatically switch to a new technology over night.

Remember the technology isn't the problem with range it's cost, of course you'll never fit an 85 kWh battery in a leaf even with tesla cells but I bet you could fit 40 which is almost twice the leaf battery, that would give around 140 miles.

It will be interesting to see what will be available for leaf II. They will be miles ahead of the Germans again, though that wouldn't be too hard.

Again, down to economics, as long as people can afford petrol and diesel electrics will always be a hard sell, you'll find some people who realise the savings that can be made others don't care and will be wiling to throw 50 euro and more in the tank.

100,000 miles In a leaf in 2-2.5 years is a hell of a lot of driving if you ask me.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

The range and the lack of charging stations are the two reasons they have not taken off as much as one would expect a cheap bland no frills car to take off in a tax obsessed country like Ireland. When the charging stations get as common as gas stations currently, and when the range is at 250-300 then I would see a much larger take up. As I have said I would buy one at a few thousand to save money on boring commute driving.

No as a lot of people have said to me that a 70 mile range is not really an issue if they can charge at the other end for a return trip, in fact when I ask people would they go electric and most of them say no, when I ask why, they say why would they ? for now they are happy their car does the job and they can afford to fill up, and there are lots of people who don't drive much and so 20 a week is all they need and is well affordable. Range isn't on the top of people's list of reasons not to go electric. In fact there is far too much ignorance in relation to electric cars it's actually unbelievable and this is the primary reason.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

But they are still a white good. Something you buy till it breaks and then throw it away. No love or "emotional connection" like fanboys of certain marques (myself included in a couple of categories) have these days for ICEs.

Well the leaf has gone for 100,000 miles in this case with no faults or maintenance. Granted it's lost 15-20% capacity but it will still find plenty of use. This won't happen as batteries get bigger as you won't be cycling it nearly as much, and the Model S prototype has over 300,000 miles on the battery and required no maintenance in that 300,000 miles, perhaps brake fluid or coolant maybe, I'm not sure on that.

A lot of people wouldn't see the 15-20% range loss for 8-10 years or more at the average 12k miles a year driven.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

I do stand to be corrected on that one when the Tesla (or a "sports ev" ) is available here. At the moment all we have are Fluence/Golf segment EVs and those cars are also white goods in ICE guise.

Tesla won't be selling the model S in Ireland any time soon as the market here would be minuscule, you can buy from the U.K but you won't have the super charger network but at least they can supply a CHAdeMo adapter to allow to connect to the existing fast charger network which is 50kw V Tesla 120 KW. Still enough to get you out of a jam. I doubt anyone in Ireland will need to go more than 250-300 miles in a day and if they do the 50kw chargers will still give 70 odd miles in 30 mins.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Exactly, but paying 20k+ to do short trips cheaply defeats the purpose! When the price comes down, to say 5k, for a 80km range nissan leaf, then I would consider one. But it is not worth 20k+ to save a few cents (or even a few euro) on a few short trips imo

There are plenty of people who pay 20k+ for a normal car to do short trips. And it costs them far more than the leccy would.

I could get a Leaf in the U.K for 12K (excluding transport costs) and get 5 K for the prius I don't think 7K is a huge amount of money to pay if I could save so much in petrol, maintenance, motor tax etc. Or I could sell the 13 year old crv which would make more sense.

I would however have to pay for a charger installation costing around 1K, still the pay back would be very quick, and I'd be on night saver saving more leccy as I'd use the immersion in summer a lot and we'd do the washing at night.

colm_mcm

That guy has to stop on his commute to charge. Charge at home and at work too. That's dedication to the cause!

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

There's no firm date concerning charging. I did though get a survey call from ESB concerning FC points. They asked me my thoughts on €5 for 100% charge. :mad:

I doubt the free charging is costing a lot so there is no need to charge yet.

5 € for a 100% charge is just 1 Euro more than peak rate leccy. I wouldn't expect free leccy. That would work out around 35 euro for 500 miles if your sole way of charging was public.

If I was to go to the Luas red cow that would be a 80 mile round trip, I would consume probably 25 kwh for the entire trip needing maybe 8 kwh to top up so the costs wouldn't be as high as people think. If Leaf II has around a 30 kwh battery then I wouldn't need to top up at all.

I think the E.U should enforce work place charging, this is really necessary imo. Though when batteries get bigger the charging infrastructure will be used less.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

No as a lot of people have said to me that a 70 mile range is not really an issue if they can charge at the other end for a return trip, in fact when I ask people would they go electric and most of them say no, when I ask why, they say why would they ? for now they are happy their car does the job and they can afford to fill up, and there are lots of people who don't drive much and so 20 a week is all they need and is well affordable. Range isn't on the top of people's list of reasons not to go electric. In fact there is far too much ignorance in relation to electric cars it's actually unbelievable and this is the primary reason.



Well the leaf has gone for 100,000 miles in this case with no faults or maintenance. Granted it's lost 15-20% capacity but it will still find plenty of use. This won't happen as batteries get bigger as you won't be cycling it nearly as much, and the Model S prototype has over 300,000 miles on the battery and required no maintenance in that 300,000 miles, perhaps brake fluid or coolant maybe, I'm not sure on that.

A lot of people wouldn't see the 15-20% range loss for 8-10 years or more at the average 12k miles a year driven.



Tesla won't be selling the model S in Ireland any time soon as the market here would be minuscule, you can buy from the U.K but you won't have the super charger network but at least they can supply a CHAdeMo adapter to allow to connect to the existing fast charger network which is 50kw V Tesla 120 KW. Still enough to get you out of a jam. I doubt anyone in Ireland will need to go more than 250-300 miles in a day and if they do the 50kw chargers will still give 70 odd miles in 30 mins.



There are plenty of people who pay 20k+ for a normal car to do short trips. And it costs them far more than the leccy would.

I could get a Leaf in the U.K for 12K (excluding transport costs) and get 5 K for the prius I don't think 7K is a huge amount of money to pay if I could save so much in petrol, maintenance, motor tax etc. Or I could sell the 13 year old crv which would make more sense.

I would however have to pay for a charger installation costing around 1K, still the pay back would be very quick, and I'd be on night saver saving more leccy as I'd use the immersion in summer a lot and we'd do the washing at night.

That's a long post, and as always I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Regarding the first bolded part:
People say range isn't the issue and people don't do the miles to make it an issue logically, but it is an issue. People are caught up in the mindset of "it's an EV, I'll run out of juice in the middle of nowhere" which, lets face it, is still pretty daunting with the awful charge infrastructure in the country. Change the mindset and you will sell a lot more EVs.

Regarding the second bolded part:
Yes people spend 20k plus on the likes of a new 1.6 golf (another bland car). However these people by virtue of them having 20k to blow on depreciation are not likely to need a cheaper to run car like an ev. The target market ideally for an EV is the person who currently has an old car and can't afford a newer model for the cheap tax and better economy. However this person is not any more likely to spend 20k on a leaf than on a new diesel.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt the free charging is costing a lot so there is no need to charge yet.

5 € for a 100% charge is just 1 Euro more than peak rate leccy. I wouldn't expect free leccy. That would work out around 35 euro for 500 miles if your sole way of charging was public.

If I was to go to the Luas red cow that would be a 80 mile round trip, I would consume probably 25 kwh for the entire trip needing maybe 8 kwh to top up so the costs wouldn't be as high as people think. If Leaf II has around a 30 kwh battery then I wouldn't need to top up at all.

I think the E.U should enforce work place charging, this is really necessary imo. Though when batteries get bigger the charging infrastructure will be used less.

Yes, +1 on that.
I rent my house so I would not be able to install a charging point at the house if I bought an EV. Another consideration, those who do not own homes but rent, cannot easily install home chargers and then even if they do, the nature of the rental market is people tend to move a lot.

HandsomeDan

100k miles, and it has a range of 60 miles!

Sorry, but what a load of crap.

This thing is so behind ICE cars it's insane.

"I think the E.U should enforce work place charging, "

People like you are actually dangerous. There are no points because there is no market for them - but yes lets install them anyway on the tax-payer to keep a few crackpots happy.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Regarding the first bolded part:
People say range isn't the issue and people don't do the miles to make it an issue logically, but it is an issue. People are caught up in the mindset of "it's an EV, I'll run out of juice in the middle of nowhere" which, lets face it, is still pretty daunting with the awful charge infrastructure in the country. Change the mindset and you will sell a lot more EVs.

Yes changing the mindset is a problem, but it's not just that there are people I've talked to who have "heard" the leaf batteries wear out after 50K miles and the car is completely useless, another one is it can't go faster than 50 mph and it is slow.

People usually always say to me that " ah no way sure my phone battery is crap after a year or my laptop holds half it's charge after 2 years"

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Regarding the second bolded part:
Yes people spend 20k plus on the likes of a new 1.6 golf (another bland car). However these people by virtue of them having 20k to blow on depreciation are not likely to need a cheaper to run car like an ev. The target market ideally for an EV is the person who currently has an old car and can't afford a newer model for the cheap tax and better economy. However this person is not any more likely to spend 20k on a leaf than on a new diesel.

Yes this is what I've been saying, people that can afford to run an ice car won't buy electric. Or people who buy a Golf won't buy a nissan even if it did 500 miles on a charge because the neighbours seeing a Nissan in the drive would think they are now a lot poorer.

My brother who drives an 12 reg A6 Automatic Diesel, really loved his spin in the Leaf, he said if only Audi made an electric, he really did like it. He did say he wouldn't be caught dead in any Nissan.

HandsomeDan

HandsomeDan wrote: »

"I think the E.U should enforce work place charging, "

People like you are actually dangerous. There are no points because there is no market for them - but yes lets install them anyway on the tax-payer to keep a few crackpots happy.

People like me are dangerous ? LMAO !

From my previous posts I have never suggested free charging or free chargers.

In my previous threads I have stated that I would like to see enforced work place charging, only for those who need it to cut down on unnecessary amount of chargers.

I have said that the company should not have to worry about billing, maintenance or installation of charging/chargers. Nor the tax payer.

I said that I would welcome a rental scheme where you pay xx a month for the installation and maintenance of chargers and then you can be electronically billed onto your electricity account.

It's not rocket science !

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

those who do not own homes but rent, cannot easily install home chargers and then even if they do, the nature of the rental market is people tend to move a lot.

Again this comes down to legislation or lack of, I can't see how a landlord would not allow installation of a charger.

Loads of landlords allow poxy ugly sky dishes and black cabling all around a house so I wouldn't see an issue with charger installation. When you move just take the charger with you. Cabling can be bought anywhere (must be the correct cabling of course) mount that charger yourself and run the cable and get the electrician to connect it either end.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Again this comes down to legislation or lack of, I can't see how a landlord would not allow installation of a charger.

Loads of landlords allow poxy ugly sky dishes and black cabling all around a house so I wouldn't see an issue with charger installation. When you move just take the charger with you. Cabling can be bought anywhere (must be the correct cabling of course) mount that charger yourself and run the cable and get the electrician to connect it either end.

I don't see any LL I rented from allowing me to install a charging point.
Plus there's the fact that renting is flexible, ie people move around. At the moment I'm looking to move for example. So can I bring the charging point with me?

This is why I think the work chargers are a good idea btw. Permanent charge point, drive in then charge while working then drive home. Rinse lather repeat/.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

I don't see any LL I rented from allowing me to install a charging point.
Plus there's the fact that renting is flexible, ie people move around. At the moment I'm looking to move for example. So can I bring the charging point with me?

This is why I think the work chargers are a good idea btw. Permanent charge point, drive in then charge while working then drive home. Rinse lather repeat/.

Of course you can bring the charger with you, it's yours !

I couldn't think of a reason a land lord would not allow a charger ot be installed unless he was a complete D head and anti EV.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course you can bring the charger with you, it's yours !

I couldn't think of a reason a land lord would not allow a charger ot be installed unless he was a complete D head and anti EV.

it's mine, but if it has to be installed in the ground, I'll have to dig it in and dig it out when leaving and then dig it in where I move to.
Just more hassle, and what if the next LL doesn't allow it?

They don't allow stuff like that as they don't want you digging up the land out side the house and changing the appearance etc

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

HandsomeDan

Deleted User wrote: »

I have stated that I would like to see enforced work place charging, only for those who need it to cut down on unnecessary amount of chargers.

Yeah just what SMBs need, more regulation, more cost...

What gives you the right to inflict you expensive hobby on the rest of us?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I always wondered this too. Surely there is an adapter (even as a slow charger) that can be made to use a normal socket?

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Yeah just what SMBs need, more regulation, more cost...

What gives you the right to inflict you expensive hobby on the rest of us?

A little harsh?
I think that larger companies (perhaps above a certain # of employees or sq footage of premises) should be encouraged to provide EV spots. Perhaps via a grant.

Fred Swanson

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Yes but at a slower rate, and Nissan don't provide the granny cable as it's called in Ireland but you can get it, you still need somewhere to plug it in making sure someone won't trip Over it.

The evse on the wall provides 16 amps to 32 amps for the MK 1.5 with optional 6 kw charger. V 10 amps with the granny cable. Afaik the 6 kw optional charger can't be used with the granny cable. Not sure.

RandomAccess

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

A little harsh?
I think that larger companies (perhaps above a certain # of employees or sq footage of premises) should be encouraged to provide EV spots. Perhaps via a grant.

I can't see the government encouraging commuting whether by ev or not.
There's more to consider than co2 and commuters pockets. Gridlock.

Fred Swanson

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You don't, and it's not even an option in Ireland, as usual choice is removed from the buyer.

The lease would only be useful for 2nd hand buyers, if the battery falls below 75 % capacity they will install a new batter! but for new buyers changing again in 3-5 years I don't see the need to rent the battery.

Zoe still isn't available, I can only guess Renault Ireland are trying to negotiate with Renault to sell Zoe with the battery.

Jesus.

Mad Lad is mad for these Leccy and hybrid motors isn't he?

Fair play to him I say

K.Flyer

Slightly off topic...
Interesting points from both sides, but one thing I have noticed as I drive around Dublin City is how ice cars "park up" at some of the charging points.
If I did have an electric car, I would find it very frustrating trying to find a bay free, especially if I was running out of energy.
Surely to support the users it should be an offence to "park" at the charge points preventing its intended use.

K.Flyer

K.Flyer wrote: »

Surely to support the users it should be an offence to "park" at the charge points preventing its intended use.

You'd think that, but this is Ireland.

I wrote an e-mail to carlow town council about this and they said they are going to sort that out, but that was a few months ago now and nothing done about it.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think that, but this is Ireland.

I wrote an e-mail to carlow town council about this and they said they are going to sort that out, but that was a few months ago now and nothing done about it.

That would necessitate a by law for each parking spot for EVs so, otherwise there would need to be a law enacted making all designated EV spots EV only

Afaik it's up to each county council but they are not bothered. They already have the power.