Seattle Nissan Leaf Reaches 100,000 Miles !

Scottie99

Deleted User wrote: »

Leaf owners should buy the Bluetooth adapter and the leaf spy app to get a real idea of the condition of their battery and also the real reserve left in the battery.

The dash range indicator terrifies people unnecessarily .

Works with android only afaik, but any cheap,phone or tablet will do. It's an essential tool if you ask me !

Remember driving quick doesn't mean you get home quicker if you have to FC

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

Remember driving quick doesn't mean you get home quicker if you have to FC

No but if you have the range at 110 kph then I see little point going slower, if you got Luas charging or work charging where you don't have to wait is better but I suppose most people won't have that.

I suppose testing it out is the only way to know.

thecomedian

Scottie99 wrote: »

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

KwackerJack

Scottie99 wrote: »

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

Depends on what's on Discovery!

But what is classed as super quick? half hour charge or half the night?

KwackerJack

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah I'd say plugging in a leaf would be too complicated a task for some ! :pac:

That's a terrible thing to say....I have a 2 year old son...no hassle plugging it in :P

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

Granted, you won't be using all the torque of the Leaf like you don't in an ice car if you're driving normally or commuting. But I'm sure it's got enough over taking punch if you need it.

Batteries are good enough today, the Tesla Model S has a real 250-300 mile range, but obviously you couldn't fit a 85 Kwh battery in a Leaf, the Model S is a big car, but using tesla (Panasonic) cells you could easily fit 30-35 kwh in the Leaf.

thecomedian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Granted, you won't be using all the torque of the Leaf like you don't in an ice car if you're driving normally or commuting. But I'm sure it's got enough over taking punch if you need it.

Batteries are good enough today, the Tesla Model S has a real 250-300 mile range, but obviously you couldn't fit a 85 Kwh battery in a Leaf, the Model S is a big car, but using tesla (Panasonic) cells you could easily fit 30-35 kwh in the Leaf.

But what would the cost of it be?
A decent range car to rival a passat, a4, accord that's not going to cost more

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

But what would the cost of it be?
A decent range car to rival a passat, a4, accord that's not going to cost more

Cost ? anyone's guess. But batteries are not as expensive as in 2011 when the Leaf first came out.

The German car markers can't easily make a Tesla rival because they don't have the expertise necessary nor do they use the same battery cells. Nor do they give a crap to be honest. They make Billions from ice cars so why would they ?

They have to that's why because the German Government says they must. It doesn't matter if it's got 80-100 mile range because it's an e.v and that's all they need to do.

Mercedes use a Tesla drive train and battery provided by Tesla for the B class EV. Simply because Mercedes can't make a battery as advanced and probably couldn't be arsed. They're making an e.v, well it's a Tesla in a Mercedes body and that's all that matters.

If Nissan used the same battery cells as tesla they could fit a 40 kwh battery for probably not much more than their current battery provided by NEC. But they chose the Automotive specific cells that have a much larger footprint and cost more.

The Panasonic 18650 size cells, the same size as laptop cells but the chemistry is much more advanced than the lithium cobalt laptop cells but the format has been in production for years and so it's much cheaper to produce those cells. They need heating and cooling which adds to cost.

Nissan have recently announced they might offer different size batteries for their Leaf II, but no one knows what the size options would be, I'd take a real 200 mile pack over a 500 any day, I simply don't need it and if it could charge faster then why would I pay to carry a very expensive battery for the few times a year I may need it ?

But credit where credit is due, Nissan were the first to offer an affordable EV, it's the best they could do which is a lot more than the rest, with the exception of Tesla, but their cars are a completely different league.

Sobanek

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

It's cheap now, but if everyone will start using EVs, then electricity prices will rise, food prices will rise and the apocalypse will come.

Scottie99

thecomedian wrote: »

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

Clearly you've haven't been in the Leaf, your head would be forced into the headrest. Yes it's not a flying machine when it comes to top speed but when you change down from ECO to D in that instant.....you'll will not have any problems overtaking I promise

Sobanek

Sobanek wrote: »

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

It's cheap now, but if everyone will start using EVs, then electricity prices will rise, food prices will rise and the apocalypse will come.

Hydrogen is far from the way to go because it takes far more energy to produce hydrogen than charge batteries, it's also much more efficient taking that energy from a battery than converting hydrogen to electricity through a fuel cell.

If Lithium air does work out then it will offer greater ranges than what Hydrogen can offer.

The cost of a hydrogen infrastructure would be absolutely huge compared to installing fast chargers. Not to mention the risks involved.

They simply can not increase the cost of electricity like they do petrol/diesel or everyone would be in the dark.

Scottie99

Sobanek wrote: »

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

Yea apparently so but we're still waiting..
Like petrol and diesel, I'm sure they're is room for both.

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They simply can not increase the cost of electricity like they do petrol/diesel or everyone would be in the dark.

But if we all move to electric they will come at it from a different angle until it costs almost the same to drive electric as it does to drive petrol now.
Im sure by the time we are all in electric cars, every miles driven will be tracked and charged accordingly.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

But if we all move to electric they will come at it from a different angle until it costs almost the same to drive electric as it does to drive petrol now.
Im sure by the time we are all in electric cars, every miles driven will be tracked and charged accordingly.

No reason if it comes to that you can't install wind turbine or solar pv.

The Government are going to make more from water charges and property tax than what they do now on petrol and diesel so they don't need to concentrate on the motorist as much.

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No reason if it comes to that you can't install wind turbine or solar pv.

The Government are going to make more from water charges and property tax than what they do now on petrol and diesel so they don't need to concentrate on the motorist as much.

My point was that they won't even bother tying it to the electricity use, they will just bill per km used.
Every motorist will have a large deduction taken at source as a penalty for not using public transport.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

My point was that they won't even bother tying it to the electricity use, they will just bill per km used.
Every motorist will have a large deduction taken at source as a penalty for not using public transport.

The Government can't penalise us for not using public transport, public transport in Ireland is mostly a joke.

Do you think the Government care if we use public transport or not ? who benefits most from all the revenue generated from burning petrol/diesel and all the motor tax/VRT ?

My point being that they don't need to screw the motorist as much now, or not when property tax and water charges come into full force, so in other words they are already getting much more in now with property tax than they will loose from people switching to e.v.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I would say the greatest issue is the fact ice cars are still affordable

You're not far wrong. Fossil fuel is still affordable. And there is still more than plenty left to keep it affordable for the next century or so, by which time even a pessimist would reckon nuclear fusion will be viable

What way our future cars will be propelled, I don't know. But the supply of cheap energy will not be an issue.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You're not far wrong. Fossil fuel is still affordable. And there is still more than plenty left to keep it affordable for the next century or so, by which time even a pessimist would reckon nuclear fusion will be viable

What way our future cars will be propelled, I don't know. But the supply of cheap energy will not be an issue.

Well I agree with you when you say there is plenty of energy, however the E.U will not allow it's citizens cheap fuel because they are hell bent on believing that man is causing the climate to change and C02 is the devil's farts. Our own Government will not allow us cheap energy. As there is far more energy use than just cars, think heating alone !

The U.S pay less than half we do now for natural Gas, and less than half now for petrol/diesel this makes the case for electrics even harder as most average people don't care about what powers a car as long as it works and it's affordable.

The U.S are now producing more oil than ever though possible but there's one big problem, they are not allowed to export it. Not yet anyway, I expect this to change. but even if they do export it to the E.U and the price of oil drops by 50 USD per barrel, the Irish Government will just introduce higher taxes.

I could be wrong, but if petrol/diesel drops by 50-80 C/L at the pumps that will be a very difficult case for electrics.

I would not like to see this happen as I believe that pollution is very real and we need to reduce air pollution, especially diesel fuel and solid fuel fires in Ireland. Co2 ? well I believe that is BS. But I don't believe we should waste oil just because there will be enough in our life times.

Even if electrics get energy from fossil fuel stations ev's are still much more efficient and they charge mostly at night when power stations have to keep burning fuel to be ready for demand increasing efficiency.

thecomedian

Scottie99 wrote: »

Clearly you've haven't been in the Leaf, your head would be forced into the headrest. Yes it's not a flying machine when it comes to top speed but when you change down from ECO to D in that instant.....you'll will not have any problems overtaking I promise

Clearly you know **** all about me and your taking ****e.
I have driven one. It's fine, like any small car. There is no wow factor or anything near it, but I guess it does a job.

Maybe I was in Eco??? But when doing 50-60 kph there wasn't much when I put the foot down.
So again I wouldn't use performance to talk up a leaf.

Scottie99

Maybe you were in the wrong gear;)

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Scottie99 wrote: »

Maybe you were in the wrong vehicle

fyp
And I use the term loosely. I think of them more of a white good like a phone or a pc- consumables that get thrown away after <5 years when their technology is outdated.

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

Clearly you know **** all about me and your taking ****e.
I have driven one. It's fine, like any small car. There is no wow factor or anything near it, but I guess it does a job.

Maybe I was in Eco??? But when doing 50-60 kph there wasn't much when I put the foot down.
So again I wouldn't use performance to talk up a leaf.

Yeah Eco retards it a fair bit, In my short time in the leaf I found it impressive, but I wasn't impressed in Eco then when I switched it off it felt a lot more powerful.

Eco is for dummies to try and get them to learn how to drive economically.

Remember it's still got 110 hp in a 1500 kg car, so the same as our crv and it has 150 hp but the leafs got a whole lot more torque.

The difference being the crv needs more hp to go faster, th leaf however is limited to 87 or so mph and so it's 110 hp can be utilised for more power for lower speeds.

I honestly don't remember the power above 100 kph, if I even went over it but it fled fast off the line and decently fast up to 100 kph.

Remember it's not intended to be a performance car and Nissan reduced the torque in the Mk 1.5 by 20 lbs. Software limited of course. It's a shame they don't give us the option of having more power, let us decide.

The Chevy spark ev is a pretty fast car. It would be a lot of fun really.

Scottie99

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

fyp
And I use the term loosely. I think of them more of a white good like a phone or a pc- consumables that get thrown away after <5 years when their technology is outdated.

If you were around at the arrival of last century, you'd have ridiculed the car in favour of the horse.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

fyp
And I use the term loosely. I think of them more of a white good like a phone or a pc- consumables that get thrown away after <5 years when their technology is outdated.

The Seattle leaf reached 100,000 miles which is about 10 years driving for many people and sure while the battery has degraded a bit it will still find plenty of use.

As batteries get bigger and longer lasting there is no reason they won't last the life of the car, in actual fact, their batteries will live on in some form or another for many years after their life in a car.

When people start driving an electric car they'll quickly realise it's the ice that's out dated. Sure the range thing won't last for long. That will be their only advantage, but to drive they are much better.

I do hope Tesla sell the modes S sport here in Ireland, you could import from the U.k the model S prototype according to tesla has over 300,000 miles and is still going strong on the original battery.

The model S sport gets 0-60 in 4.2 seconds and can super charge half a charge or up to 150 miles in 20 mins.

Tesla make all the other car makers look very outdated !

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Scottie99 wrote: »

If you were around at the arrival of last century, you'd have ridiculed the car in favour of the horse.

what a stupid statement.
Utterly ridiculous. It is a different scenario, horses were not comparable to cars. It was clear that cars were faster and a better mode of transport. Progression by improvement.
Whereas the current EV in its current guise is a regressive step. It takes what we have now and makes it worse.

Anyway, unless you are going to beam me up/back there how would you know what I or you or anyone for that matter would do.

The fact is we are here now, and we make decisions based on what is here now, not on 1900 or 1800 or any other time.

thecomedian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remember it's not intended to be a performance car and Nissan reduced the torque in the Mk 1.5 by 20 lbs. Software limited of course. It's a shame they don't give us the option of having more power, let us decide.

The Chevy spark ev is a pretty fast car. It would be a lot of fun really.

That was my whole point to the other clown. It's not about performance, it's about doing short trips cheaply. Going on about its performance is stupid.

The demo I drove was last years model. It was over in galway. The salesman was actually very good, he had one himself.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

The Seattle leaf reached 100,000 miles which is about 10 years driving for many people and sure while the battery has degraded a bit it will still find plenty of use.

As batteries get bigger and longer lasting there is no reason they won't last the life of the car, in actual fact, their batteries will live on in some form or another for many years after their life in a car.

When people start driving an electric car they'll quickly realise it's the ice that's out dated. Sure the range thing won't last for long. That will be their only advantage, but to drive they are much better.

I do hope Tesla sell the modes S sport here in Ireland, you could import from the U.k the model S prototype according to tesla has over 300,000 miles and is still going strong on the original battery.

The model S sport gets 0-60 in 4.2 seconds and can super charge half a charge or up to 150 miles in 20 mins.

Tesla make all the other car makers look very outdated !

The range and the lack of charging stations are the two reasons they have not taken off as much as one would expect a cheap bland no frills car to take off in a tax obsessed country like Ireland. When the charging stations get as common as gas stations currently, and when the range is at 250-300 then I would see a much larger take up. As I have said I would buy one at a few thousand to save money on boring commute driving.

But they are still a white good. Something you buy till it breaks and then throw it away. No love or "emotional connection" like fanboys of certain marques (myself included in a couple of categories) have these days for ICEs.

I do stand to be corrected on that one when the Tesla (or a "sports ev" ) is available here. At the moment all we have are Fluence/Golf segment EVs and those cars are also white goods in ICE guise.

thecomedian wrote: »

That was my whole point to the other clown. It's not about performance, it's about doing short trips cheaply. Going on about its performance is stupid.

The demo I drove was last years model. It was over in galway. The salesman was actually very good, he had one himself.

Exactly, but paying 20k+ to do short trips cheaply defeats the purpose! When the price comes down, to say 5k, for a 80km range nissan leaf, then I would consider one. But it is not worth 20k+ to save a few cents (or even a few euro) on a few short trips imo

Scottie99

thecomedian wrote: »

That was my whole point to the other clownf

If you look back I said the top speed was nothing to write home about but the torque was very good.:rolleyes:

thecomedian

Scottie99 wrote: »

If you look back I said the top speed was nothing to write home about but the torque was very good.:rolleyes:

If you look back you will see I was talking about mid range.

colm_mcm

Scottie99 wrote: »

If you were around at the arrival of last century, you'd have ridiculed the car in favour of the horse.

Surely the horse would be very efficient but has limited range and performance?