Seattle Nissan Leaf Reaches 100,000 Miles !

So I'll get right to the point, 100,000 miles and 20% loss of capacity, 0 faults. so the car that got 75 miles average new now gets 60. Some can get more miles.

This is in Seattle Washington, a climate not too far off from ours.

I will add that that reading was done at 4 C and the battery needs to be at 20 C to get an accurate reading so it could be anywhere between a 15-20% loss.

There is an event being held to celebrate the event as Nissan will be there and I'll post a link when I find one.

100,000 miles based on a 45 mpg car has saved 10,104 litres of fuel of €15,661 worth of petrol/diesel. More saved if you get less mpg.

No service required apart from yearly battery check, tyre rotation. So say 100 every 10,000 miles for a normal car.

Then possibly timing belt replaced for a lot of cars.

So the Leaf requires an "inspection" and "tyre rotation" once a year and a so called battery check for about 100 Euro's, not mileage dependant afaik, leaf owners please confirm ?

So over 20K miles a year you still need one inspection V 2 services on a car, so we'll say 100 Euro per 20K miles saved on servicing, or 500 Euro's over 100,000 miles and 350 saved on a timing belt 350 + for some cars.

Cost of leccy on night rate would be around €1,260 not including free public charging/fast charging etc.

So 15,660 on Fuel - 1,260 in leccy =14,400 Euro's +500 on service + 350 Timing belt = 15,250 saved over ice car. Excluding whatever saving over motor tax. Add another 1400 saving over a 1.4 petrol on the old system. Maybe similar on the new.


Please, no Anti EV brigade usual time wasting, trolling, Thread hijacking comments.

Note to Boards.ie. A dedicated EV forum would be appreciated.

Eric Cartman

1333 charges to 100% to get all that mileage . Probably did more 30 minute lite charges so we wont count it all at the 6.6kw 4 hour charge time . Lets call it 2.5 hours per charge (to factor in the 30 minute charger use) thats 3332.5 hours or 138.8 whole days off the road while its charging.

Also electric cars are the fastest depreciating (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101211631) . Its good to see your enthusiasm and the story is a good one to note. But buying an electric car will not save you 15k over 100,000 miles over an equivalent model year and catagory ICE vehicle

Scottie99

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lets call it 2.5 hours per charge (to factor in the 30 minute charger use) thats 3332.5 hours or 138.8 whole days off the road while its charging.

I'm usually in bed while it's charging (off peak lecky)

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

1333 charges to 100% to get all that mileage . Probably did more 30 minute lite charges so we wont count it all at the 6.6kw 4 hour charge time . Lets call it 2.5 hours per charge (to factor in the 30 minute charger use) thats 3332.5 hours or 138.8 whole days off the road while its charging.

This is just plain ridiculous ! Really anyone with any form of common sense will know you charge the car when it's not being used.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Also electric cars are the fastest depreciating (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101211631) . Its good to see your enthusiasm and the story is a good one to note. But buying an electric car will not save you 15k over 100,000 miles over an equivalent model year and catagory ICE vehicle

If you're going to source an article, then at least find a source relevant to the Irish market and not some anti EV website relevant to the U.S market.

20K -22K for a Leaf on carzone ? Doesn't depreciate more than any other Nissan ?

A German car will always carry a premium because of the badge.

I see 1.6 diesel golf's for around the same price with maybe a 1-2K premium because of the badge.

I see Opel Astra's cheaper and probably French cars too.

Bandara

Feel sorry for the poor sod who had his soul drained for 100,000 miles.

Grim.

Bpmull

The biggest issue with electric cars is the range. so until the likes of graphene is used in batteries which will be a while yet I cant see them take off. with a range of 100 km or whatever it just doesnt suit people and I know you can quick charge them but who wants to stop and wait around. If you decide you want to drive 300 km tomorrow in a normal petrol diesel car you can get in and go where as with a leaf you have to plan ahead and located charging points not to mention all the wasted time waiting for the car to charge. People dont want to have to plan ahead. With irish people Id imagine the fear of the unknown stops alot of people they want to stick to what they know. in saying all that when they first came out they were 30k euro now there 22k euro so that is a big drop and they are becoming more affordable. there is no doubt is you dont mind the inconvenience of all the charging and planning ahead one can definitely save a huge amount of money with them.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

The biggest issue with electric cars is the range.

I would say the greatest issue is the fact ice cars are still affordable and people are more than willing to pay for petrol and diesel.

Those who would benefit most are those who find it hard to make ends meat and the 20-30 a week in petrol is very hard to come by. Unfortunately for the less well off it will be some time before they can get a Leaf for 2-3K.

100,000 miles is a lot of miles to clock up in just 2 years. Or maybe he had it more, not fully sure yet. Either way it's a lot.

Sure more range would be nice, however there should be a balance, you don't need a 500 mile diesel because refill times are short and you don't drive 500 miles a day. So electric cars need 150-200 miles max with much faster recharge times.

What people don't realise is that just a 5 min fast charge may all people need to go that extra few miles to get home. And for the few times a year that the leaf may not be suitable, rent or borrow a ice car.

There are many people who drive to the Luas park and rides and who can charge up in some of them such as the red Cow and Sandyford. If I were to work near the Sandyford Luas stop I could do 100-140 miles a day easily. And the return trip for now would be free.

Scottie99

Bpmull wrote: »

The biggest issue with electric cars is the range. so until the likes of graphene is used in batteries which will be a while yet I cant see them take off. with a range of 100 km or whatever it just doesnt suit people and I know you can quick charge them but who wants to stop and wait around. If you decide you want to drive 300 km tomorrow in a normal petrol diesel car you can get in and go where as with a leaf you have to plan ahead and located charging points not to mention all the wasted time waiting for the car to charge. People dont want to have to plan ahead. With irish people Id imagine the fear of the unknown stops alot of people they want to stick to what they know. in saying all that when they first came out they were 30k euro now there 22k euro so that is a big drop and they are becoming more affordable. there is no doubt is you dont mind the inconvenience of all the charging and planning ahead one can definitely save a huge amount of money with them.

I agree. It's down to your needs, if I was doing 200 km a day, I'd find it a pain in the erse. I'm doing 115 a day and the Mrs has an ICE for our longer journeys so it suits. In fairness though, very rarely do we need to use hers.:)

mickdw

Is there an electric mpv available. That surely is the obvious market.
In 2 car families, if they are forced to buy a diesel mpv for the school run , an electric second car will not suit as a commuter car in most cases.

Scottie99

mickdw wrote: »

Is there an electric mpv available. That surely is the obvious market.
In 2 car families, if they are forced to buy a diesel mpv for the school run , an electric second car will not suit as a commuter car in most cases.

Dunno you can do around 130km on a charge. That would suit most commutes..

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

Dunno you can do around 130km on a charge. That would suit most commutes..

And that range can almost double with the fast chargers and general on street or Luas parking, work charging etc.

As I said earlier a 5 min fast charge may all some need to get the few extra miles home.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

A full charge would be about 1.80 on night rate leccy.

Scottie99

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Free from garages etc
Home is around €2.20 for a full charge 0-100%.....roughly

kyote00

Quick question to see if a "leaf" would work for me.

I commute from rural meath to Dublin City Centre (off nassua st. - I have company parking). Its about 69kms each way --- so say 140km round trip


Is the range of the leaf independent of what is switched on in the car? For example, this week in winter time I have
- dipped lights
- wipers/heater etc

Does the range assume any passengers ? Sometimes in the summer, I carpool with two other lads

Would the leaf work for me ?

It's around 1.80-2.0 euros depends on who you leccy provider is.

Don't forget you can get tesco vouchers to put towards your leccy bill !

A 10 euro voucher is worth about 350 miles ,

Scottie99

Could you give me your route kyote00?

kyote00

kyote00 wrote: »

Quick question to see if a "leaf" would work for me.

I commute from rural meath to Dublin City Centre (off nassua st. - I have company parking). Its about 69kms each way --- so say 140km round trip


Is the range of the leaf independent of what is switched on in the car? For example, this week in winter time I have
- dipped lights
- wipers/heater etc

Does the range assume any passengers ? Sometimes in the summer, I carpool with two other lads

Would the leaf work for me ?

Not without a charge in between.

But the heater makes the greatest difference, the lights wouldn't make any noticeable difference as they're led. Even halogen lamps wouldn't make a noticeable difference.

Cold also effects the battery.

Winter range can be 60 miles or less depending on how hard you drive or if you're one of those people who drives in their t-shirt with the heat on full blast.

I find that a lot of the time my jacket and a woolly hat keeps me warm enough in a car as anything else effects my sinus, and I don't really feel the cold much.

The MK 1.5 leaf has an optional and highly recommended more efficient heat pump and 6.6 kw charger.

kyote00

Home enfield - rural roads : 10km
m4 enfield to kilhamham : 50km
city roads to nassua st : 10km

Scottie99 wrote: »

Could you give me your route kyote00?

RandomAccess

EV's are an obvious choice for the hardcore commuter, but I've gotta wonder if encouraging/enabling this kind of commuting is a positive thing overall.

Since the next logical step is the automated commute, I have to wonder about the larger impact on society and the commuter belt.

kyote00

thanks. what about passengers ?

Deleted User wrote: »

Not without a charge in between.

But the heater makes the greatest difference, the lights wouldn't make any noticeable difference as they're led. Even halogen lamps wouldn't make a noticeable difference.

Cold also effects the battery.

Winter range can be 60 miles or less depending on how hard you drive or if you're one of those people who drives in their t-shirt with the heat on full blast.

I find that a lot of the time my jacket and a woolly hat keeps me warm enough in a car as anything else effects my sinus, and I don't really feel the cold much.

The MK 1.5 leaf has an optional and highly recommended more efficient heat pump and 6.6 kw charger.

Scottie99

kyote00 wrote: »

Home enfield - rural roads : 10km
m4 enfield to kilhamham : 50km
city roads to nassua st : 10km

Doesn't seem to be any FC close by to you apart from The M4 chargers, but they'd be no use to because of they're positioning. Maybe you should wait until some more come online. As Mad Lad said earlier, you'd only need a 5min top up..

Scottie99

kyote00 wrote: »

thanks. what about passengers ?

A little difference but I wouldn't say much. Speed is the main culprit, followed by heater. The ideal speed is around 90km/h
Check out charge points at the ESB ecars with their app

kyote00

kyote00 wrote: »

thanks. what about passengers ?

I would say it would take 2-3 adults to make any noticeable difference, heavy stop start traffic would have the greatest impact with more weight in the car and lots of hills.

Once up to speed it shouldn't make any great difference though I've no personal experience with this.

I would say you'd need more than a 5 min charge to replace 20-30 miles on a fast charger ?

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

A little difference but I wouldn't say much. Speed is the main culprit, followed by heater. The ideal speed is around 90km/h
Check out charge points at the ESB ecars with their app

110 kph shouldn't be a problem with fast charging ?

Don't forget cruise control isn't efficient, cruise maintains speed by keeping increasing speed where required. The most efficient way to drive is a steady throttle position, the result of that would be you'd slow down on hills etc.

Leaf owners should buy the Bluetooth adapter and the leaf spy app to get a real idea of the condition of their battery and also the real reserve left in the battery.

The dash range indicator terrifies people unnecessarily .

Works with android only afaik, but any cheap,phone or tablet will do. It's an essential tool if you ask me !

KwackerJack

When they have lecky cars that can do a few days commuting between charges, super quick charges and decent performance then ill buy one.


And the money I save will buy me a Red 1199, or maybe a ZX10 humm

Scottie99

KwackerJack wrote: »

When they have lecky cars that can do a few days commuting between charges, super quick charges and decent performance then ill buy one.


And the money I save will buy me a Red 1199, or maybe a ZX10 humm

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

wotswattage

Bandara wrote: »

Feel sorry for the poor sod who had his soul drained for 100,000 miles.

Grim.

I'm sure hes laughing all the way to the bank

wotswattage

wotswattage wrote: »

I'm sure hes laughing all the way to the bank

Indeed and especially considering you can lease a leaf for 200 a month in the U.S.

The leaf was 10,000 euros cheaper in the U.S than the E.U when it came out first, that old VAT you see. It's still a fair bit cheaper.

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

Ah I'd say plugging in a leaf would be too complicated a task for some ! :pac:

Scottie99

Deleted User wrote: »

Leaf owners should buy the Bluetooth adapter and the leaf spy app to get a real idea of the condition of their battery and also the real reserve left in the battery.

The dash range indicator terrifies people unnecessarily .

Works with android only afaik, but any cheap,phone or tablet will do. It's an essential tool if you ask me !

Remember driving quick doesn't mean you get home quicker if you have to FC

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

Remember driving quick doesn't mean you get home quicker if you have to FC

No but if you have the range at 110 kph then I see little point going slower, if you got Luas charging or work charging where you don't have to wait is better but I suppose most people won't have that.

I suppose testing it out is the only way to know.

thecomedian

Scottie99 wrote: »

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

KwackerJack

Scottie99 wrote: »

kwackerJack, do you go to bed at night? No need to wait a couple of days...
Super quick is nearly here........
I'd say I'd beat you off at the lights withe instant torque. Granted our top speed is only 130/140

Depends on what's on Discovery!

But what is classed as super quick? half hour charge or half the night?

KwackerJack

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah I'd say plugging in a leaf would be too complicated a task for some ! :pac:

That's a terrible thing to say....I have a 2 year old son...no hassle plugging it in :P

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

Granted, you won't be using all the torque of the Leaf like you don't in an ice car if you're driving normally or commuting. But I'm sure it's got enough over taking punch if you need it.

Batteries are good enough today, the Tesla Model S has a real 250-300 mile range, but obviously you couldn't fit a 85 Kwh battery in a Leaf, the Model S is a big car, but using tesla (Panasonic) cells you could easily fit 30-35 kwh in the Leaf.

thecomedian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Granted, you won't be using all the torque of the Leaf like you don't in an ice car if you're driving normally or commuting. But I'm sure it's got enough over taking punch if you need it.

Batteries are good enough today, the Tesla Model S has a real 250-300 mile range, but obviously you couldn't fit a 85 Kwh battery in a Leaf, the Model S is a big car, but using tesla (Panasonic) cells you could easily fit 30-35 kwh in the Leaf.

But what would the cost of it be?
A decent range car to rival a passat, a4, accord that's not going to cost more

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

But what would the cost of it be?
A decent range car to rival a passat, a4, accord that's not going to cost more

Cost ? anyone's guess. But batteries are not as expensive as in 2011 when the Leaf first came out.

The German car markers can't easily make a Tesla rival because they don't have the expertise necessary nor do they use the same battery cells. Nor do they give a crap to be honest. They make Billions from ice cars so why would they ?

They have to that's why because the German Government says they must. It doesn't matter if it's got 80-100 mile range because it's an e.v and that's all they need to do.

Mercedes use a Tesla drive train and battery provided by Tesla for the B class EV. Simply because Mercedes can't make a battery as advanced and probably couldn't be arsed. They're making an e.v, well it's a Tesla in a Mercedes body and that's all that matters.

If Nissan used the same battery cells as tesla they could fit a 40 kwh battery for probably not much more than their current battery provided by NEC. But they chose the Automotive specific cells that have a much larger footprint and cost more.

The Panasonic 18650 size cells, the same size as laptop cells but the chemistry is much more advanced than the lithium cobalt laptop cells but the format has been in production for years and so it's much cheaper to produce those cells. They need heating and cooling which adds to cost.

Nissan have recently announced they might offer different size batteries for their Leaf II, but no one knows what the size options would be, I'd take a real 200 mile pack over a 500 any day, I simply don't need it and if it could charge faster then why would I pay to carry a very expensive battery for the few times a year I may need it ?

But credit where credit is due, Nissan were the first to offer an affordable EV, it's the best they could do which is a lot more than the rest, with the exception of Tesla, but their cars are a completely different league.

Sobanek

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

It's cheap now, but if everyone will start using EVs, then electricity prices will rise, food prices will rise and the apocalypse will come.

Scottie99

thecomedian wrote: »

I'd leave performance out of your argument
The torque is no use in the leaf if you want to overtake something.

Maybe in another 5-10 years the EV will have a day to day car with double the range, more space and a higher quality finish. Then you will get people buying them.

Clearly you've haven't been in the Leaf, your head would be forced into the headrest. Yes it's not a flying machine when it comes to top speed but when you change down from ECO to D in that instant.....you'll will not have any problems overtaking I promise

Sobanek

Sobanek wrote: »

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

It's cheap now, but if everyone will start using EVs, then electricity prices will rise, food prices will rise and the apocalypse will come.

Hydrogen is far from the way to go because it takes far more energy to produce hydrogen than charge batteries, it's also much more efficient taking that energy from a battery than converting hydrogen to electricity through a fuel cell.

If Lithium air does work out then it will offer greater ranges than what Hydrogen can offer.

The cost of a hydrogen infrastructure would be absolutely huge compared to installing fast chargers. Not to mention the risks involved.

They simply can not increase the cost of electricity like they do petrol/diesel or everyone would be in the dark.

Scottie99

Sobanek wrote: »

Hybrid/Hydrogen is the way to go.

Yea apparently so but we're still waiting..
Like petrol and diesel, I'm sure they're is room for both.

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They simply can not increase the cost of electricity like they do petrol/diesel or everyone would be in the dark.

But if we all move to electric they will come at it from a different angle until it costs almost the same to drive electric as it does to drive petrol now.
Im sure by the time we are all in electric cars, every miles driven will be tracked and charged accordingly.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

But if we all move to electric they will come at it from a different angle until it costs almost the same to drive electric as it does to drive petrol now.
Im sure by the time we are all in electric cars, every miles driven will be tracked and charged accordingly.

No reason if it comes to that you can't install wind turbine or solar pv.

The Government are going to make more from water charges and property tax than what they do now on petrol and diesel so they don't need to concentrate on the motorist as much.

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No reason if it comes to that you can't install wind turbine or solar pv.

The Government are going to make more from water charges and property tax than what they do now on petrol and diesel so they don't need to concentrate on the motorist as much.

My point was that they won't even bother tying it to the electricity use, they will just bill per km used.
Every motorist will have a large deduction taken at source as a penalty for not using public transport.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

My point was that they won't even bother tying it to the electricity use, they will just bill per km used.
Every motorist will have a large deduction taken at source as a penalty for not using public transport.

The Government can't penalise us for not using public transport, public transport in Ireland is mostly a joke.

Do you think the Government care if we use public transport or not ? who benefits most from all the revenue generated from burning petrol/diesel and all the motor tax/VRT ?

My point being that they don't need to screw the motorist as much now, or not when property tax and water charges come into full force, so in other words they are already getting much more in now with property tax than they will loose from people switching to e.v.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I would say the greatest issue is the fact ice cars are still affordable

You're not far wrong. Fossil fuel is still affordable. And there is still more than plenty left to keep it affordable for the next century or so, by which time even a pessimist would reckon nuclear fusion will be viable

What way our future cars will be propelled, I don't know. But the supply of cheap energy will not be an issue.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You're not far wrong. Fossil fuel is still affordable. And there is still more than plenty left to keep it affordable for the next century or so, by which time even a pessimist would reckon nuclear fusion will be viable

What way our future cars will be propelled, I don't know. But the supply of cheap energy will not be an issue.

Well I agree with you when you say there is plenty of energy, however the E.U will not allow it's citizens cheap fuel because they are hell bent on believing that man is causing the climate to change and C02 is the devil's farts. Our own Government will not allow us cheap energy. As there is far more energy use than just cars, think heating alone !

The U.S pay less than half we do now for natural Gas, and less than half now for petrol/diesel this makes the case for electrics even harder as most average people don't care about what powers a car as long as it works and it's affordable.

The U.S are now producing more oil than ever though possible but there's one big problem, they are not allowed to export it. Not yet anyway, I expect this to change. but even if they do export it to the E.U and the price of oil drops by 50 USD per barrel, the Irish Government will just introduce higher taxes.

I could be wrong, but if petrol/diesel drops by 50-80 C/L at the pumps that will be a very difficult case for electrics.

I would not like to see this happen as I believe that pollution is very real and we need to reduce air pollution, especially diesel fuel and solid fuel fires in Ireland. Co2 ? well I believe that is BS. But I don't believe we should waste oil just because there will be enough in our life times.

Even if electrics get energy from fossil fuel stations ev's are still much more efficient and they charge mostly at night when power stations have to keep burning fuel to be ready for demand increasing efficiency.

thecomedian

Scottie99 wrote: »

Clearly you've haven't been in the Leaf, your head would be forced into the headrest. Yes it's not a flying machine when it comes to top speed but when you change down from ECO to D in that instant.....you'll will not have any problems overtaking I promise

Clearly you know **** all about me and your taking ****e.
I have driven one. It's fine, like any small car. There is no wow factor or anything near it, but I guess it does a job.

Maybe I was in Eco??? But when doing 50-60 kph there wasn't much when I put the foot down.
So again I wouldn't use performance to talk up a leaf.

Scottie99

Maybe you were in the wrong gear;)