Pure in heart abstinence only education

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

Afaik only in primary and junior cycle. Once they turn 16 I think they are allowed make their own decision.

Its easy enough for parents to be pro active on this. Why wait until your child comes home and tells you PIH or similar came by for a visit, why don't parents call the school and ask their policy on outside groups in advance and let it be known their objection?

Maybe if more parents did this and schools knew the way parents feel they would be less inclined to invite them.

Parents definitely need to get their act together. There's a feeling among some that sex ed means teenagers will start shagging all around them. So they leave it to schools who also can't handle it. I actually got quite good sex ed in school, backed up at home. But equally I've friends who's sex ed constituted a video on periods starting and not much else.

SpaceTime

One friend of mine recalled a story where a nun in the 2000s told a class that 'girls you can get pregnant by having drink with a fella'

When they pressed her on this, she basically genuinely thought that you could get pregnant by sharing a drink. She'd just total lack of any knowledge about reproduction and it wasn't like some kind of conservative belief, just complete ignorance of facts! They were pretty horrified that a grown woman could know so little about the topic.

lazygal

It's sad that 1. Someone would know so little about their own body and how it works and 2. Such ignorance is being taught in state funded schools.

I still can't believe the number of adults who don't use correct terms like vulva or penis, but dance around with strange euphemisms. And don't tell their children the right words either, as though they'll grow up too soon or something.

kylith

lazygal wrote: »

It's sad that 1. Someone would know so little about their own body and how it works and 2. Such ignorance is being taught in state funded schools.

I still can't believe the number of adults who don't use correct terms like vulva or penis, but dance around with strange euphemisms. And don't tell their children the right words either, as though they'll grow up too soon or something.

A grown adult told me recently that they considered 'vagina' to be the most disgusting word for vagina. Apparently clunge or gash were vastly superior.

Is it just me or is that weird?

pablohoney87

kylith wrote: »

A grown adult told me recently that they considered 'vagina' to be the most disgusting word for vagina. Apparently clunge or gash were vastly superior.

Is it just me or is that weird?

Axe Wound??????

kylith

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Axe Wound??????

Anything is better than the actual name for the thing, apparently.

coffee_cake

kylith wrote: »

A grown adult told me recently that they considered 'vagina' to be the most disgusting word for vagina. Apparently clunge or gash were vastly superior.

Is it just me or is that weird?

Bleh

It's not disgusting it's just clinical sounding

lazygal

kylith wrote: »

A grown adult told me recently that they considered 'vagina' to be the most disgusting word for vagina. Apparently clunge or gash were vastly superior.

Is it just me or is that weird?

I had my baby in with the doctor because of a rash on his scrotum. The gp said I was the first parent he'd met who actually called it the scrotum. Loads of people also tell their children the vulva is vagina, again how can you not know the difference? No wonder we've such a weird attitude to sexual healthcare.

alaimacerc

lazygal wrote: »

And if the Pure In Heart people aren't garda vetted there's a teacher present in the room, what does the teacher do if "facts" are challenged by pupils?

Well, according to the reports on the radio and in journal.ie, they discipline the student for "disrespecting" a visitor to the school.

It's pretty Kafkaesque. The PiH apologists claim the the student's version of what they're saying is "garbled" and that there's no "proof" that these porkies are being propagated. And the setup seems pretty much guaranteed to ensure that remains the case, if the teachers don't sit in, the students versions are openly disbelieved, and PiH themselves give only a self-serving partial version of what actually happens.

SpaceTime

If they're in schools unsupervised in class rooms I assume they've been Garda vetted?

Peregrinus

SpaceTime wrote: »

If they're in schools unsupervised in class rooms I assume they've been Garda vetted?

Presumably they have been, yes.

(Which just shows that limited reliance can be placed on garda vetting. You can be bat**** crazy, and still be positively vetted.)

alaimacerc

Presumably "vetting" is to determine that a person's unlikely to physically or sexually abuse students, nick the fixtures and fittings, and so on. Wilfully misinforming and religiously propangandising them is what the schools (and educational chain-of-command) are supposed to be in charge of. Eh, in charge of stopping (one would like to think).

Nodin

Quinn throws his hat in the ring. Whats written on the hat is a matter of speculation, some of it leading to more money for our legal community....

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/sex-education-should-stress-importance-of-a-committed-relationship-30091560.html

eviltwin

Nodin wrote: »

Quinn throws his hat in the ring. Whats written on the hat is a matter of speculation, some of it leading to more money for our legal community....

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-quinn/sex-education-should-stress-importance-of-a-committed-relationship-30091560.html

From the article: ' parents who withdraw their children from religion class could also be portrayed as cranks, and worse, if we were so minded'


wtf is that supposed to mean??

PopePalpatine

The Mewling Quinn has such a miserable-looking face. It must have been worn down by decades of hatred for teh ghey, teh wimminz and teh godless.

Nodin

eviltwin wrote: »

From the article: ' parents who withdraw their children from religion class could also be portrayed as cranks, and worse, if we were so minded'


wtf is that supposed to mean??

A subtle

"YOU'RE WRONG!!!!1111!!!!!"

......dig.

oscarBravo

Being discussed on Prime Time now.

The Black Oil

Dodging the question...

PopePalpatine

I think a certain Watery One and Grand Moff TarQuinn are facing competition for "Most Odious Man in Ireland" from this PiH wanker.

Cantremember

How sad that the "pure in heart" of the beatitudes is reduced to sexual abstinence. What a negative and deplorable view of human sexuality.

pablohoney87

Coincidently their website is back up today.
Fairly Naff lookin though

Delirium

Good that Pure In Heart were on the show and they were upfront about the sh*te they preach in schools. Hopefully this will wake parents up to the sort of nonsense that is going on under the umbrella of "ethos".

eviltwin

PIH came to my daughters school two weeks ago. We were given a consent form in advance and I didn't want her to go but she insisted she was there to call them out on their claims. It was a 2hr talk with a mix of TY and 5th year boys and girls.

Some of the things they came out with were telling anyone who had issues with their sexuality to contact their priest, telling girls that boys don't want to settle down with a woman who is too intelligent and a discussion about the way girls dress that sounded very close to victim blaming those subject to sexual assaults.

I complained to the school and managed to get a call back from the principal who I was very surprised allowed these people into the school, he's a fairly young guy and seems to have an open mind but he told me it was out of his control. The school is part of the Le Cheile trust and its they who decide who goes in and talks to the students, the principal has no say.

I'm furious these people are allowed to just walk in and come out with this ****e...the sooner we have a mass network of ET second level schools the better. :mad:

lazygal

Did your daughter or anyone else manage to challenge their claims?

I would not allow my child to be subject to such silly and downright misleading and dangerous claims. I don't know if anyone remembers the case of Elizabeth Smart, a Utah girl who was kidnapped and raped repeatedly for nine months by a man who wanted a polygamous setup. She said one of the reasons she didn't try to escape was because she was raised with abstinence based sex ed and her thought process was that no one would want her, even her parents, once she'd had sex, even if it was rape. She's been speaking out about the dangers of abstinence se ed for a few years. Reducing the worth of men and women to what they do with their sexual parts is a demeaning message for everyone.
Here's a link: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05/06/1967591/elizabeth-smart-abstinence-ed/

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

Did your daughter or anyone else manage to challenge their claims?

I would not allow my child to be subject to such silly and downright misleading and dangerous claims. I don't know if anyone remembers the case of Elizabeth Smart, a Utah girl who was kidnapped and raped repeatedly for nine months by a man who wanted a polygamous setup. She said one of the reasons she didn't try to escape was because she was raised with abstinence based sex ed and her thought process was that no one would want her, even her parents, once she'd had sex, even if it was rape. She's been speaking out about the dangers of abstinence se ed for a few years. Reducing the worth of men and women to what they do with their sexual parts is a demeaning message for everyone.
Here's a link: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/05/06/1967591/elizabeth-smart-abstinence-ed/

She tried...they came out with that "1 in 4 condom fails" garbage, mentioned some vague US study that backed it up. She asked if that stat was down to the condom itself or the misuse of them and the school priest who was present told her to be quiet.

They weren't given any books or leaflets to take away with them and their request for their sources were declined. I also contacted the school and asked for these but was refused even though the consent form promised parents would be given follow up information to use at home.

I really did not want her to go and it was against my better judgement but let her make her own mind up on these things, she knew about PIH before hand and would take everything they say with a pinch of sale but she wanted to make them look like idiots. Unfortunately the school is totally complicit in this rubbish...what kind of talk doesn't even allow students to ask questions.

pauldla

The priest told her to be quiet when she asked an intelligent question? WTF?

Penn

That whole PIH claim about 1 in 4 condoms failing is a complete misrepresentation of the facts anyway*. Condoms having a 25% chance of failing does not mean they fail 1 in 4 times, it means each use of a condom has an approximate 25% chance of failing (when used imperfectly).

Same way 100 people each having a 1% chance of being struck by lightning does not mean 1 person will definitely get struck by lightning and 99 people won't, it means they each have a 1% chance of it happening to them.



*I think previous reports said PIH used the figure of 1 in 6 rather than 1 in 4. Either way though, it's completely twisting facts

alaimacerc

Penn wrote: »

That whole PIH claim about 1 in 4 condoms failing is a complete misrepresentation of the facts anyway*. Condoms having a 25% chance of failing does not mean they fail 1 in 4 times, it means each use of a condom has an approximate 25% chance of failing (when used imperfectly).

I think people have a basic understanding of what the phrase "1 in 4 failure rate" means. (And it's not, like the punchline of the old joke, "the last three were OK, so the next one is definitely doge".)

In any case, this is a complete misunderstanding of the actual stats. It's not 1 in 4 per condom, it's 1 in 6 per year (actually 18% in the stats I saw). With "imperfect/typical use", which is including people "using condoms" who don't actually use a condom in the particular instance of "failure". (I hate to think what other sorts of "imperfect use failure" they're counting, but the failure rate with correct use over a year is reported as being around 2%.)

As I said earlier in this thread, counting "I got drunk and forgot" as part of "condom failure rate" is exactly like counting "I got drunk and horny" as part of the "abstinence failure rate".

alaimacerc

pauldla wrote: »

The priest told her to be quiet when she asked an intelligent question? WTF?

If there wasn't the very real need to be preventing intelligent questions being asked of religious maniacs, there would hardly be any point in having a "school priest" now, is there?

MrPudding

pauldla wrote: »

The priest told her to be quiet when she asked an intelligent question? WTF?

Why does this surprise you? Intelligent questions are poison to religion.

MrP