WC 2014 Brasil; Starts June 12th 2014

bradlente

Nice to see Pepe Rossi has made a recovery from his injury,hoping he'll make the team now as I went in a few times for him as top scorer early on.Some are with Skybet so the fúckers will mark it down a loss if he doesn't make it.Bit if competition up front with Immobile amongst others but hoping experience will see him through.Have ended up backing a top scorer with most of the underdogs now,have a heap of them.If someone does well unexpectedly then one or two should be there or thereabouts.
Just looking at the German team,I think that might be the greatest collection of midfield players in a team I've ever seen...

Austria!

Was looking at the odds on Italy top scorer, Ballotelli seems a bit skinny @2.75. Surely a fully fit Rossi or Immoble are just as likely to score. Mario didn't have a great season, so why should he start instead of Immoble?

Warper

Austria! wrote: »

His thinking is largely influenced by the defeat to the US in 2009. He went without the double pivot and they were hit on the counter and lost to a much worse team. Been highly conservative since then, and his team don't get caught on the break like Barcelona do.

I think Del Bosque has underperformed myself to be honest. Despite having the best team by miles in the last few year a lot of Spain's victories were lucky. They could have gone out of the group if MAdzu scores a header in 2012, and portugal took them to penalties. Barely got past Paraguay in 2010 and had to rely on a great save to stop Robben in the final.

This year is different, in that Xavi is older now and possibly Alonso will find it hard to last the pace too. Del Bosque will have to adapt from his previous strategy, and he's a bit stuck in his ways. That could be Spain's undoing here.

Having said that, Costa will start.

Wtf?? Ya winning the last 3 major international tournaments is underperforming?? A lot of Spains victories were lucky?? They must be the luckiest team of all time as they managed to win the last 3 major tournaments in a row. Their demolition of Italy in the Euro 12 final was an absolute masterclass and must rank as one of the best ever displays by an international team in a major final. But ya they are lucky

bradlente

Can't argue with Spains success,they'll go down as one of the greatest international teams.They've also been lucky but there's an element of luck in winning anything.
I think they'll need to change it up this year though,adding Koke to the mix would be a great start.Him and Costa/Negredo/Llorente could add a completely different attacking dimension to the team.The team might be a bit leggy if Xavi,Alonso and Iniesta start together,lots of years between them now.Implementing some of what's made Atletico so difficult to beat this year could go a long way,weirdly enough it doesn't look like Spain have the kind of players that can do that though,especially in midfield.

Austria!

Warper wrote: »

Wtf?? Ya winning the last 3 major international tournaments is underperforming?? A lot of Spains victories were lucky?? They must be the luckiest team of all time as they managed to win the last 3 major tournaments in a row. Their demolition of Italy in the Euro 12 final was an absolute masterclass and must rank as one of the best ever displays by an international team in a major final. But ya they are lucky

Last 2. Which reinforces my point, because there was nothing lucky about Euro2008 which Del Bosque wasn't around for. Better football too.

Spain had an unbelievable squad. In Busquets Iniesta Xavi, probably the 3 best midfielders in the world, one of the best strikers in the world in Villa in 2010. Quality everywhere except maybe full back and up front depending on tournament. If they didn't win it would be underachieving, and Del Bosque came close twice. As it was they didn't win any match in 2010 by more than a goal. They won the semi of Euro2012 on penalties, don't get shocked when people say they had the luck. Italy had a man sent off in that masterclass final too. Italy already managed a 1-1 against Spain earlier on in the group stage.

bradlente

Busquets didn't make his debut until after Euro 2008(amazingly has 60+ caps already),he's one of the few regular players Del Bosque gave a debut to.
Aragones created the blueprint of this great Spanish side,just looking at who Del Bosque has actually given debuts to in the team:

Bojan Krkić, Andoni Iraola, Fernando Llorente, Diego Capel, Sergio Busquets, Jesús Navas, Diego López, Gerard Piqué, Jordi Alba, Pedro, Pablo Hernández, Borja Valero, Bruno Soriano, Nacho Monreal, Víctor Valdés, Álvaro Negredo, Juan Mata, Javi Martínez, Thiago Alcântara, Manu del Moral, Aritz Aduriz, Adrián López, Juanfran Torres and Beñat Etxebarria while one uncapped player, Fernando Amorebieta, has been called up but failed to debut.

Edit-that list is slightly dated,even just looking at the squad for this tournament,Azpiliqueta,Koke and Costa have all got their starts from Del Bosque with maybe a few more.But they still have to prove themselves as first-teamers.

Del Bosque has only integrated 3 first team players since the post-Aragones era in 2008.Pedro and Mata deserve mention too but I don't think it's unfair to say that judging from that list,on what was already there a golden generation fell on Del Bosques lap.

DB74

What country hasn't won a major tournament without big players falling in the manager's lap. Plenty of teams have underperformed at big tournaments with big names at their disposal.

Del Bosque was instrumental in creating harmony in the Spanish camp for the 2012 EUROs following a season of especially bitter rivalry between Real & Barca, mainly thanks to Mourinho's poisoning influence of the Real players during the year.

What do you want Del Bosque's teams to do, go out and hammer everyone 4-0 or 5-0? That's not what Spain has been about the last few years. Their thinking is why score 2 goals when 1 will do, their method is score first and defend, but defend through possession football, not the traditional Chelsea of defending a lead. They have yet to concede a goal in the knockout stages of the last 3 tournaments, that's 10 matches without conceding.

Every great manager has been lucky at some stage or other with the players they have (look at Alex Ferguson for example) but to say that Del Bosque has underperformed is very unfair on the man.

Warper

Austria! wrote: »

Last 2. Which reinforces my point, because there was nothing lucky about Euro2008 which Del Bosque wasn't around for. Better football too.

Spain had an unbelievable squad. In Busquets Iniesta Xavi, probably the 3 best midfielders in the world, one of the best strikers in the world in Villa in 2010. Quality everywhere except maybe full back and up front depending on tournament. If they didn't win it would be underachieving, and Del Bosque came close twice. As it was they didn't win any match in 2010 by more than a goal. They won the semi of Euro2012 on penalties, don't get shocked when people say they had the luck. Italy had a man sent off in that masterclass final too. Italy already managed a 1-1 against Spain earlier on in the group stage.

Major tournaments do no really start until the KO round so that 1-1 draw with Italy in the Group stages is incomparable to the hammering they took in the final. Btw Italy never had a man sent off in the final so you are obv talking rubbish. 4-0 is the highest margin of victory ever in a Euros final as well btw. When it really mattered this Spain side has come good and Del Bosque must take great credit for this. It always happens when a team proves itself to be the best, they take a lot of slack primarily down to jealously.

DB74

Warper wrote: »

Btw Italy never had a man sent off in the final so you are obv talking rubbish.

Bit harsh there. True they never had a man sent off in the final but they did have to play the last 30 mins with 10 men due to an injury to Thiago Motto, who had to come off the field after all Italy's subs had been used.

Austria!

Warper wrote: »

Major tournaments do no really start until the KO round so that 1-1 draw with Italy in the Group stages is incomparable to the hammering they took in the final. Btw Italy never had a man sent off in the final so you are obv talking rubbish. 4-0 is the highest margin of victory ever in a Euros final as well btw. When it really mattered this Spain side has come good and Del Bosque must take great credit for this. It always happens when a team proves itself to be the best, they take a lot of slack primarily down to jealously.

You're right. They had to play with 10 because of injury, not a red card. My mistake.

Major tournaments don't start until the KO stage? Absolute nonsense. The group match in 2012 between Croatia and Spain was effectively KO, because whoever lost would get knocked out. And it took Spain 88 minutes to score in that one, and if this header had gone in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXybd-plfqU&t=2m22s
then they could easily have lost.

Fine margins between success and failure. Just because a team wins the world cup doesn't mean they did well, and just because a team loses doesn't mean they did poorly.
It's like gambling. I make some poor bets that win me money, I make plenty of great bets that lose me money. If you want to look at a few isolated results and judge then you're going to get misled.

And I didn't say Spain were not the best, I said Del Bosque did not do a great job. That's not incompatible with Spain being the best team in a competition. And jealousy doesn't apply to me. I have backed Spain in 2010 and 2012 and they won me money. Barcelona of 09-11 was the greatest football I've ever seen in my life. I want Spain to play even better, like I know they can.

Edit. And I've 4 figures on them for this world cup too.

inforfun

MOD:

Ok.

Lets keep it on topic please.

DB74

Austria! wrote: »

The group match in 2012 between Croatia and Spain was effectively KO, because whoever lost would get knocked out. And it took Spain 88 minutes to score in that one, and if this header had gone in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXybd-plfqU&t=2m22s
then they could easily have lost.

KO for Croatia maybe because Spain only needed a draw in that match to go through

bradlente

DB74 wrote: »

What country hasn't won a major tournament without big players falling in the manager's lap.

Greece and Denmark.Thought there were some better teams than Italy in '06 too.

Warper

Austria! wrote: »

You're right. They had to play with 10 because of injury, not a red card. My mistake.

Major tournaments don't start until the KO stage? Absolute nonsense. The group match in 2012 between Croatia and Spain was effectively KO, because whoever lost would get knocked out. And it took Spain 88 minutes to score in that one, and if this header had gone in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXybd-plfqU&t=2m22s
then they could easily have lost.

Fine margins between success and failure. Just because a team wins the world cup doesn't mean they did well, and just because a team loses doesn't mean they did poorly.
It's like gambling. I make some poor bets that win me money, I make plenty of great bets that lose me money. If you want to look at a few isolated results and judge then you're going to get misled.

And I didn't say Spain were not the best, I said Del Bosque did not do a great job. That's not incompatible with Spain being the best team in a competition. And jealousy doesn't apply to me. I have backed Spain in 2010 and 2012 and they won me money. Barcelona of 09-11 was the greatest football I've ever seen in my life. I want Spain to play even better, like I know they can.

Edit. And I've 4 figures on them for this world cup too.

This i agree with but regarding Del Bosque we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. Spain are not at the same level as they were a few years ago. The best guide to Spain's form is Barcelona's form.

Austria!

Warper wrote: »

Spain are not at the same level as they were a few years ago. The best guide to Spain's form is Barcelona's form.

Not sure about that. Barcelona's form is due to many factors. The club is in disarray and even Messi is playing poorly the last few months. I think Brazil and Argentina are much better this year than in 2010, but Spain aren't much worse.

Comparing now to 2010, you have a worse keeper, better fullbacks, and probably a better striker, in that Diego Costa will provide a different dimension for Spain's attack. He offers for Spain's attacking midfielders what Giroud offers Arsenal's. Plus he can score.

It's only Xavi and Alonso who are worse, Xavi in particular. Which is a big loss, but I think Spain have the options to cope with it.

clickerquicklic

Think Spain are a solid bet should be able for the heat they don't over exert themselves and so much quality , look a good price compared to Brazil and Argentina.

Warper

Austria! wrote: »

Not sure about that. Barcelona's form is due to many factors. The club is in disarray and even Messi is playing poorly the last few months. I think Brazil and Argentina are much better this year than in 2010, but Spain aren't much worse.

Comparing now to 2010, you have a worse keeper, better fullbacks, and probably a better striker, in that Diego Costa will provide a different dimension for Spain's attack. He offers for Spain's attacking midfielders what Giroud offers Arsenal's. Plus he can score.

It's only Xavi and Alonso who are worse, Xavi in particular. Which is a big loss, but I think Spain have the options to cope with it.

Villa was the best striker at the WC in 2010, he was in his prime. Costa has played what 1 game for Spain and he was terrible in it. To expect him to outdo what Villa did in 2010 is crazy, not to mention his dodgy hamstring recently. He has no experience playing for Spain.

Xavi is way past it and i am a Barcelona fan. Barca's midfield lacks serious creativity and has been so lateral the past while they are indistinguishable from their great days. Xavi and Iniesta were outstanding in 2010, they have been poor this season. Practically all of Barcelonas team have underperformed this season and that includes Messi. Spain are undoubtably in worse shape going into this WC than they were in 2010, i really cant see how you can argue otherwise.

bradlente

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Think Spain are a solid bet should be able for the heat they don't over exert themselves and so much quality , look a good price compared to Brazil and Argentina.

Was listening to a podcast earlier this morning that said no matter how Argentina fare in the group stages they won't have to play in any of the extreme weather conditions,it's just the way their fixtures are lined out.
Germany and Portugal will be playing at 1 o clock in the afternoon in Salvador,apparently local games don't even get played there at that time,so that's gonna be interesting to watch.Spain and the Netherlands will play there as well but slightly later in the day.Portugal have a brutal schedule,their first game vs Germany in that heat and then their next game of the group is against USA in Manaus.
Haven't went through the different rounds to see who could play where but I think if it comes down to a final where a team like Argentina face a side who've played 2 or 3 of these games then maybe these games might take a toll.

Austria!

Warper wrote: »

Villa was the best striker at the WC in 2010, he was in his prime. Costa has played what 1 game for Spain and he was terrible in it. To expect him to outdo what Villa did in 2010 is crazy, not to mention his dodgy hamstring recently. He has no experience playing for Spain.

I'm not saying it's a huge improvement, I'm saying probably better.
Big fan of David Villa and in his prime he was better than Costa is, but he couldn't win headers or bully players, so Spain had only 1 way to play. The problem for Spain is that teams sit back and they have to break down a very compact defence with players who like to pass around and move into space. A target man changes that. Even though it didn't work out, Guardiola was trying to fix exactly the same problem for Barcelona when he got Zlatan. A good example is the match against Portugal in 2010 where Lorente came on and changed the game for Spain, precisely because he offered something that Villa never could.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/29/spain-1-0-portugal-tactics/

Austria!

I think the climate is a big deal, but I don't know how to account for it. Is it better to play a few games in heat early on and get used to it? Is it something that will suit possession sides over counter-attack? Does it suit Africans due to the heat, or is it the humidity which is going to catch them? Anyone have any ideas?

jebus84

Whats the odds on ye stop talking about about Spain

Im on Chile and ivory coast to get out of their group 2/1

jebus84

Whats the odds on ye stop talking about about Spain

Im on Chile and ivory coast to get out of their group 2/1

tomaussie

jebus84 wrote: »

Whats the odds on ye stop talking about about Spain

Im on Chile and ivory coast to get out of their group 2/1

I've backed Chile to come out of their group but at 4/1 to win the group I might back that too. Think they'll have a good World Cup.

Hollister11

World Cup bets.

➡️Fred top goal scorer 22/1
➡️Brazil to win Fred top scorer 40/1
➡️Belgium E/W 20/1

fuzzydunlop85

Ok lads think I'm done with my picks for the wc this summer, done a good but of research and thanks for your input its helped me a fair bit! Hoping I don't put the hex on myself by posting here. Gone for the following. France to win their group @ 4/5. Ivory Coast to qualify @ evens Australia 0 points @ 6:4. Germany Portugal rev forecast @ 4/6. 4 trebles and an accum. The above plus Spain @ 8/11 and Belgium @ 4/6 to win their groups and Argentina Bosnia straight forecast at 7/5. 5folds , 6folds and accum. Anyone any thoughts(before I change my mind again!)? Will be putting a decent bet on these( especially if real win the cl tomorrow!) so hoping for a profitable summer! Good luck with your picks.

Austria!

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Ok lads think I'm done with my picks for the wc this summer, done a good but of research and thanks for your input its helped me a fair bit! Hoping I don't put the hex on myself by posting here. Gone for the following. France to win their group @ 4/5. Ivory Coast to qualify @ evens Australia 0 points @ 6:4. Germany Portugal rev forecast @ 4/6. 4 trebles and an accum. The above plus Spain @ 8/11 and Belgium @ 4/6 to win their groups and Argentina Bosnia straight forecast at 7/5. 5folds , 6folds and accum. Anyone any thoughts(before I change my mind again!)? Will be putting a decent bet on these( especially if real win the cl tomorrow!) so hoping for a profitable summer! Good luck with your picks.

I like most of those. I don't know much about Ivory Coast so won't comment. Would you consider brazil croatia mexico cameron quadcast with bwin @ 5.5 too? I think that's a steal.

fuzzydunlop85

Austria! wrote: »

I like most of those. I don't know much about Ivory Coast so won't comment. Would you consider brazil croatia mexico cameron quadcast with bwin @ 5.5 too? I think that's a steal.

I think that's a bit too extravagant for me Austria ! But good luck with your picks! I would be wary of Mexico maybe getting through that group. Conditions will be in their favor. Maybe cover with brazil Mexico Croatia Cameroon ? Tbh that group looks a bit dicey to me and is one I'm planning to avoid!

kerosene

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Ok lads think I'm done with my picks for the wc this summer, done a good but of research and thanks for your input its helped me a fair bit! Hoping I don't put the hex on myself by posting here. Gone for the following. France to win their group @ 4/5. Ivory Coast to qualify @ evens Australia 0 points @ 6:4. Germany Portugal rev forecast @ 4/6. 4 trebles and an accum. The above plus Spain @ 8/11 and Belgium @ 4/6 to win their groups and Argentina Bosnia straight forecast at 7/5. 5folds , 6folds and accum. Anyone any thoughts(before I change my mind again!)? Will be putting a decent bet on these( especially if real win the cl tomorrow!) so hoping for a profitable summer! Good luck with your picks.

Hi fuzzydunlop,
Ive a similar bet in mind as you, though im thinking of doing Ivory coast @ 6/4 to beat Japan. Its a game they would probably be targetting, and need to win if they are to qualify. Il probably go with France to win their group, Oz no points and Belgium -1 v Algeria.

How Soon Is Now

Anyone picked any top team goal scorer bets yet??

Looking at them on Paddy Power i came very close to winning more then 100 euro in the Euros last time out had about 6 or 7 players going think Robbie Keane ****ed it for me !

http://www.paddypower.com/football/international-football/2014-world-cup?ev_oc_grp_ids=335649

Actually just noticed according to paddy power.....

Five euro on Ronaldo Dzeko Benzama Messi Fred Van persie and Mandzuic all to be top scorers for there team wins you 4418 euro!!!!!

Shanotheslayer

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Anyone picked any top team goal scorer bets yet??

Looking at them on Paddy Power i came very close to winning more then 100 euro in the Euros last time out had about 6 or 7 players going think Robbie Keane ****ed it for me !

http://www.paddypower.com/football/international-football/2014-world-cup?ev_oc_grp_ids=335649

Actually just noticed according to paddy power.....

Five euro on Ronaldo Dzeko Benzama Messi Fred Van persie and Mandzuic all to be top scorers for there team wins you 4418 euro!!!!!

Mandzuic missing first game. Too many goalscorers in Argentina for me to pick Messi.