My 9 year old Son steals from me 😟

Shell_

..Hi everyone, I was unsure of which forum to leave this..
I'm in a terrible predicament here.. Today my son took my credit card and he used it to purchase €60 worth of Nintendo Wii points. (I think the points are used to buy games etc on the wii store). My issue here is that my son took my card and effectively stole from me. He knew exactly what he was doing as he is a very bright boy. He has stolen small amounts (€5) 2 or 3 times in the past. I'm heartbroken that he did this to my husband and I, not because of the amount of money he used but because he felt he could do that to us. My general way of punishing my kids when they are naughty is giving them time-out for a couple of minutes to reflect on they're behaviour. It always helps them to see that certain behaviour isn't acceptable.. Until today I have never had to think of another way to help my son via his behaviour.. My husband is furious and I am very sad. Somebody suggested I bring our son to the gardaí to have a wee chat. I don't know about that. I am just at a loss as to what do.. When I asked my son why he did this to us he simply replied "Cos I wanted to buy point's". I actually burst into tears, just couldn't believe he could do such a thing to us. As I said he is quite bright and well educated.. Can anybody, please advise me about what actions I should take..?? I really want to keep my son on the right path. He is generally a good kid and a very happy one too. Kind Regards -S..

Rushden

Take the wii off him

Shell_

Rushden wrote: »

Take the wii off him

My husband did that already. Sorry forgot to mention that.. but is that really enough of a lesson about not stealing.. I don't know.. but thanks for your response. I appreciate it.. 😊

The One Who Knocks

How did he react when you took it?

Dubl07

Rushden wrote: »

Take the wii off him

Sell the wii to recoup your losses. Ban all electronics for the forseeable including tv, radio, internet.

Blue Crystal

Hi Shell,


Dont worry, take solace in the fact your son has a successful future as a banker/property developer/taoiseach.

gubby

You need to make him understand how hard it is to earn money these days. (no matter how well off or not you are) could you give him a list of jobs to do with a "price" on each one and make him do them until the debt is paid off! It sounds like he really doesn't "get it" how bad this is. If you dont deal with this now it will be impossible to deal with it when he is 16+

Alactric

It's been a while since I used a wii...but I never remember it fully storing CC info. I always remember having to go through some process, how did he have your credit card info?

Blue Crystal

gubby wrote: »

You need to make him understand how hard it is to earn money these days. (no matter how well off or not you are) could you give him a list of jobs to do with a "price" on each one and make him do them until the debt is paid off! It sounds like he really doesn't "get it" how bad this is. If you dont deal with this now it will be impossible to deal with it when he is 16+

Or write off the debt without recourse, it will prepare him for his future as a banker/property developer/taoiseach/EU country.

Moonbeam

Blue Crystal wrote: »

Or write off the debt without recourse, it will prepare him for his future as a banker/property developer/taoiseach/EU country.

*mod note*
No unhelpful posting please.

GhostInTheRuins

Alactric wrote: »

It's been a while since I used a wii...but I never remember it fully storing CC info. I always remember having to go through some process, how did he have your credit card info?

That's a good point. Make sure the wii u hasn't stored the credit card details so he can't do it again without direct access to your card.

Alactric

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

That's a good point. Make sure the wii u hasn't stored the credit card details so he can't do it again without direct access to your card.

That's not what I mean, I remember the Wii account system being archaic even at the time, I always remember having to enter my credit card details every time I purchased something. I'm saying the child must have known the CC info himself.

edit: Is this the original Wii or Wii U? If it's Wii U I think you might actually be able to get a refund by sending some statement to Nintendo saying your Credit Card was stolen (which it, sort of was?)

Mr. Tom

Might it be possible he simply may not comprehend the concept of money and it's workings? In my non parental opinion, I would humbly suggest explaining to him how money and credit works. Just a thought.

Chattastrophe!

You mentioned that he's stolen smaller amounts from you in the past - what did you do on those occasions?

I think he just might not get the concept
Maybe give him odd jobs to do or get a family friend or neighbour to and explain the going rate - once he realises how long it all takes he might be less blase
It will also teach him a bit of pride and earning his own points - he might like that

goz83

You say he is bright, but I don't think he actually understands what he did. He knows it was wrong, but not how wrong. Is it possible to recover the funds? Make sure he sees no benefit from this theft. Anything purchased with the card for the Wii should be deleted. In fact, I would agree with selling the Wii. It seems very harsh, but it would be a very valuable lesson and one he will not forget. It will hurt you doing this, but might just save him from going down that path.

Lennyzip

Cancel the credit card , good chance he could have written down the numbers for future use if he's as clever as you make him out to be ......

Aineoil

Hi Shell

Could you have a chat with him saying you understand that he wants to buy wii points but if he wants to buy anything else again he has to ask your permission to use your credit card?

Boombastic

Dubl07 wrote: »

Sell the wii to recoup your losses. Ban all electronics for the forseeable including tv, radio, internet.

I agree with this. Sell the Wii to recoup your loss. He is not responsible enough to have one

shaizlebiz

I do customer support for the Xbox, and trust me - we see this a lot.

Kids are simply taking their parents credit cards, or using the credit card if it's already attached to the user ID, and spending it on Microsoft Points (now simply referred to as Microsoft Change), the equivalent of Wii points.

What I usually tell the parents is, that they should always educate their kids on the importance of restricting themselves when browsing the console, or the internet for that sake. Numbers and money aren't anything but pixels on a screen, until you actually have it physically by hand. If you want to take it a step further and really teach your son a lesson he wont forget, you can open up a family fraud investigation, but this should only be used as a last resort if all reasoning with your son fails.

Paramite Pie

In my opinion, time outs need to last a big longer than a few minutes. When kids are left to "think about what they did", they're usually just fuming at their parents over the punishment (that's what I did as a kid).

Timeouts need to last longer in general. Also avoid making eye contact with your son for a while, letting him know how disappointed you are with him. This drives kids crazy and they will start to understand that your really, really upset.

Do all the usual parent stuff, only more detached. He'll pick on it, and will genuinely feel bad, even if he doesn't fully understand what he's done. If he has a favourite uncle or aunt, have them express their disappointment too. You'll be surprised how much influence they'll have.

Also change your credit card, and don't keep it where he can reach it. At 9, he's short so use that to your advantage. Finally delete his Wii account. So if you do give his Wii back, he has no online account.

Aineoil

Folks,
This little boy is only 9 years of age, roughly in about third class of primary school. He needs to be educated about credit cards, personal items, etc .

Punishment will make sure the next time he does wrong he won't tell. I'd keep the lines of communication with him open.

If you sell the wii, what will you do when he's 16 or 17, if he does something wrong?

Alactric

shaizlebiz wrote: »

I do customer support for the Xbox, and trust me - we see this a lot.

Kids are simply taking their parents credit cards, or using the credit card if it's already attached to the user ID, and spending it on Microsoft Points (now simply referred to as Microsoft Change), the equivalent of Wii points.

What I usually tell the parents is, that they should always educate their kids on the importance of restricting themselves when browsing the console, or the internet for that sake. Numbers and money aren't anything but pixels on a screen, until you actually have it physically by hand. If you want to take it a step further and really teach your son a lesson he wont forget, you can open up a family fraud investigation, but this should only be used as a last resort if all reasoning with your son fails.

I think there's a much bigger issue here, The Wii didn't even have a unified account system, (which was great if your Wii broke :pac:) So there's nothing to attach the card to? I checked Nintendo's site:

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/ht_shop.jsp

Enter the credit card number, expiration date, and three digit security code. Select "OK" when finished.

"Select the credit card type to be used to buy Wii Points. The Wii Shop accepts Visa or MasterCard"

"Enter the credit card number, expiration date, and three digit security code. Select "OK" when finished"

This has to be done every time a purchase is made, I'm sure of it. Nothing could be stored locally, for the very simple reason that the console couldn't be resold or even dumped.

getting rid of the Wii is no good if he knows everything about the credit card

Dubl07

Aineoil wrote: »

Folks,
This little boy is only 9 years of age, roughly in about third class of primary school. He needs to be educated about credit cards, personal items, etc .

Punishment will make sure the next time he does wrong he won't tell. I'd keep the lines of communication with him open.

If you sell the wii, what will you do when he's 16 or 17, if he does something wrong?

If he were nine and only in third class then he'd need remedial education. His mother says he's smart. A bit too smart.

Santa gave me a transistor radio many years ago. I loved it and listened to it all the time but couldn't afford batteries for it and family funds were tight. By summer, I got fed-up asking for new ones and put some in my pocket while shopping with my parents. They found them when I got home, drove back to the supermarket and asked for the manager. I had to apologise and hand them back. That was a hard lesson to learn at seven years old. Teach your young child properly and fewer issues will arise during later years.

Boombastic

Aineoil wrote: »

Folks,
This little boy is only 9 years of age, roughly in about third class of primary school. He needs to be educated about credit cards, personal items, etc .

Punishment will make sure the next time he does wrong he won't tell. I'd keep the lines of communication with him open.

If you sell the wii, what will you do when he's 16 or 17, if he does something wrong?

Actions have consequences. If he learns this at a young age, he will be an easier 16/17 year old to manage. If he knows his parents are a push over, he will learn he can walk all over them and the biggest consequence will be timeout. Children won't die without a wii.

LegacyUser

It seems quite obvious he doesn't understand the concept of money. Not one note or coin passed through his hand, I think the virtual aspect has probably meant the process of spending such a significant sum of money is lost on him. Do you think he would have taken€60 in cash if it was left on the table?

Sit him down, maybe with €60 in hard cold cash and try to explain how many hours, etc mammy and daddy have to work to make this much money.

"Because I wanted the points" isn't such a strange answer for a pre teen either. Many things are lost on them and seem insignificant.

Selling the console strikes me as being extremely severe. I would refrain from going down that road personally.

goz83

Aineoil wrote: »

Folks,
This little boy is only 9 years of age, roughly in about third class of primary school. He needs to be educated about credit cards, personal items, etc .

Punishment will make sure the next time he does wrong he won't tell. I'd keep the lines of communication with him open.

If you sell the wii, what will you do when he's 16 or 17, if he does something wrong?

Get him thrown into juvi

I don't recall the OP saying that her son volunteered the information. In either case, he needs to be punished. This is not a situation where a simple chat will suffice. What he did was serious and the punishment needs to hit him hard and that means taking his games away and in this case, perhaps even selling the console if the money cannot be recovered.

I would hate to have to do this to my son (who is 10) but I know that it would be a sure way to make sure he never did anything of the likes again. If he misbehaves, some time out and taking away of game privileges works a treat, for the most part. I can't even imagine him stealing, because he knows money doesn't grow on trees. He gets an allowance, but his chores and behaviour need to warrant this. Makes everyone happy and my card hasn't been stolen either.

Shell_

The One Who Knocks wrote: »

How did he react when you took it?

..Stangely he was calm and seemed unfazed by my husband taking it back.. I really wanna help him but I I'm not a believer in being cruel to be kind.. thanks for your response.. have you any suggestions..??

Tramps Like Us

I presume you've grounded him?

You have to punish him somehow, if he doesnt care that the wii has been taken then take something else.

Has he even apologised?

Shell_

..Thanks everyone for posting.. I wont have time to read all of your advice in detail til tomorrow.. I wasnt expecting such huge feedback.. I will read all msgs tomorrow and I will correspond then..
Thanks again Guys..!! #overwhelmed with all the feedback.. -Shell

Dubl07

Shell_ wrote: »

..Stangely he was calm and seemed unfazed by my husband taking it back.. I really wanna help him but I I'm not a believer in being cruel to be kind.. thanks for your response.. have you any suggestions..??

Shel, teaching right from wrong is like toilet training. Nappies are easier for a small child but to grow a child needs to learn how to use a loo. It's not cruelty, it's essential to his future well-being.

Dublinstiofán

First thing I'd do is contact Nintendo. See if there's any way of getting a refund on the points stating it was unauthorised use of your card without permission.
If this doesn't work I'd call my credit card company any tell them there are unauthorised transactions on your card that you want these to be refunded and a new card issued.

Then I'd tell him he is banned from the wii for one month. I'd also become very proficient in the use of it over the next month. Stating that as he used the credit card to purchase points that you intend to use them all, because afterall, you paid for them.

Every day after work I'd sit down and play it with your husband. Whether he's watching or not. And under no circumstances is he to get a go. He can watch you and your husband playing but not play it himself. Throw in a few 'this is so much fun you might never get to play it again' etc and bobs your uncle after a month he'll be foaming at the mouth for it and will always remember what not being able to play it for a month feels like.

ian87

Have a chat with your local sergeant. Ask can you bring your son in for a "chat" on stealing and it's consequences. The sergeant will probably only be too happy help and it would give your son a cruel to be kind lesson.

Boombastic

Shell_ wrote: »

..Stangely he was calm and seemed unfazed by my husband taking it back.. I really wanna help him but I I'm not a believer in being cruel to be kind.. thanks for your response.. have you any suggestions..??

There is a difference between being cruel to be kind and parenting. It's not the first time he has stolen from you. What punishments were given for the other instances? They don't seem to have had too much impact on him because the situation has escalated. In my opinion he doesn't care the Wii was taken because he knows he'll get around you and get it back soon.


Don't take this as critising you or your husbands parenting, it's difficult at the best if times

Coles

Interesting thread.

I think it's important to remember that this child is very young and can't possibly have any concept of the value of money, or how much work is required to earn it. I think it would be better not to regard it as a "theft" and to just use it as an opportunity to teach him some lessons.

He needs to understand money. He needs to start earning it, and saving it, and making plans on what to spend it on. Ensure that he is provided with enough opportunities to earn the money he needs for what he wants. Don't make it too easy, and keep it fair and consistent. It's better not to regard general household work as paid work. Household work should be done regardless, but perhaps earning €2 for washing the car, or 50c for sweeping the pavement and gathering up the leaves, or €1 for washing out the wheelie bin. Stuff like that.

I think he needs to lose the Wii for a prolonged period. He needs to realise that what he did was not acceptable and that his actions have consequences. Perhaps it would be worth finding pass times and hobbies that don't require money.

Big Bag of Chips

Dubl07 wrote: »

If he were nine and only in third class then he'd need remedial education

?????

I'd say the average age of a child in 3rd class is 9. Anyone starting school at 5, or close to it, would be 9 in or during 3rd class... but that's not the issue.

OP, genuinely, I'd question whether he "stole" it. He might have taken it without asking, but did he realise he was taking €60 from you. To him it's a card, that you put in the numbers and get what you want... he doesn't see the cash that needs to be paid after.

Sit him down. Talk to him over and over. I like the idea of recouping the costs by getting him to work for it. While he needs to be punished for taking it, I think it is more important to explain to him that he actually stole, and make sure he understands that.

I have an 8 year old - very smart child - (scored 10 on the Sten, in the 99th percentile etc) but he has no concept or interest in money. He has been given money for presents, has won a handful of change at a kiddie bingo game recently etc, but couldn't care less about it.

Edit: Just to add - my lad "understands" money in the sense that you need it to buy everything - but if I saw something for €2, and asked him did he want it, he'd say "Ah, no it's ok. It's probably too much to spend".

Aineoil

I understand that every parent has a different way of parenting. Indeed every child has their own unique character too. In dealing with children, what will work with one child won't with another.

My own son is now 17 and for him and me talking things out was the best way to deal with things.

He's never inadvertently used my credit card, he just asks if he can buy X on the card. Sometimes he can, if the card is nearly empty. If the card is at its max I just say, well tonight the card is up to its limit, can you wait until payday?

Dubl07

Coles wrote: »

Interesting thread.

I think it's important to remember that this child is very young and can't possibly have any concept of the value of money, or how much work is required to earn it. I think it would be better not to regard it as a "theft" and to just use it as an opportunity to teach him some lessons.

He needs to understand money. He needs to start earning it, and saving it, and making plans on what to spend it on. Ensure that he is provided with enough opportunities to earn the money he needs for what he wants. Don't make it too easy, and keep it fair and consistent. It's better not to regard general household work as paid work. Household work should be done regardless, but perhaps earning €2 for washing the car, or 50c for sweeping the pavement and gathering up the leaves, or €1 for washing out the wheelie bin. Stuff like that.

I think he needs to lose the Wii for a prolonged period. He needs to realise that what he did was not acceptable and that his actions have consequences. Perhaps it would be worth finding pass times and hobbies that don't require money.

Nine is not too young to have a concept of money!!! Any nine-year-old with average intellectual abilities will probably buy and sell their parents unless the parents are blessed with a sense of humour and reason.

Tramps Like Us

Unless the child has been very sheltered and/or is backwards they should understand money by aged nine.

Regardless they should understand that stealing (no matter what it is) is a big no no, and plundering your mams purse is deffo wrong!

Coles

Dubl07 wrote: »

Nine is not too young to have a concept of money!!! Any nine-year-old with average intellectual abilities will probably buy and sell their parents unless the parents are blessed with a sense of humour and reason.

Of course the child understands the concept of money. I said that he couldn't possibly understand the 'concept of the value of money' and how much work is required to earn it.

doubtfir3

I had a situation like this in the past - I had left 4x 50 on the kitchen worktop one morning as we were getting ready to go to school.

I grabbed them as I was putting them in my pocket and didn't confirm until later that there was one missing. As you can imagine I was furious as the money was later spent, but I dealt with it in a simple way - teaching him the value of money.

I took 5 of his favourite games and sold them to Xtra Vision. I lost a lot of money on this as I had originally purchased the games for him, but he got to see some "value" from this. I then took all consoles and tv etc out of his room for two weeks, and made him do a series of jobs for me.

In this way, he suffered the loss of his favourite games, traded them in and had to physically hand me the 50 he took from me. Then he had the loss of his electronics privileges and in addition he had to do another 50-ish worth of work for me as "punishment".

OP, I know you are really disappointed about it as was I, but at the end of the day I think that he doesn't fully appreciate the value of money (very few nine year olds would!) and think that a serious talk and a strong example of punishment and paying back the money is in order.

Best of luck!

Dubl07

Coles wrote: »

Of course the child understands the concept of money. I said that he couldn't possibly understand the 'concept of the value of money' and how much work is required to earn it.

Syllogistic reasoning. He's old enough to understand property. He's old enough to understand money. He's old enough to understand right from wrong.

Blue Crystal

Shell, check around the area you live for a Fianna Fáíl recruitment office for your son

my teapot is orange

In my opinion, you need to be very clear about the message you are trying to impart to him. The idea is that stealing is wrong regardless of the amount involved. It wouldn't matter if it was 50c. Focusing on the amount too much might just give the impression that you are angry about the amount and that stealing €5 is less bad for e.g.

I think he needs to see you get angry about it to understand the seriousness. Don't have some sort of nice non-threatening little chat as if he was being told to set the table better or something. I'm not saying lose it with him but he needs to appreciate that this is a level up from other misbehaviour.

I would impose some more serious punishment than you ever have before, precisely to drive home the seriousness of this. I know grounding seems old-fashioned but something along that line.

I also meant to say that I wouldn't take too personally the fact that he did this to you. I would imagine he just didn't think about the emotional impact upon you at all rather than thinking it was really going to upset you and decided to do it anyway.

Too

He needs to pay you back (not necessarily euro for euro but he should give up something of value to you to learn the value of what he took) and he should receive a punishment for the act of stealing. You know your son and the dissapointment you express suggests he is a good kid so keep it in proportion. This is an opportunity to shape his personality and morality before he hits teenage years. It won't be easy but if you are not definitive now you are teaching him that there are no consequences to wrong doing. Then when it's done it's done and never mention it again.

Phoebas

Rushden wrote: »

Take the wii off him

Shell_ wrote: »

My husband did that already.

I'd say taking the Wii off him is sufficient punishment. But I'd take the Wii and throw it in the bin, never to be seen again or replaced again.

RubyGirl

Phoebas wrote: »

I'd say taking the Wii off him is sufficient punishment. But I'd take the Wii and throw it in the bin, never to be seen again or replaced again.

I'd have to agree, I have an 8 year old and he is very aware of money, the value of it etc. Just read this out to my husband, he recokon's use up the credit he bought on him, where as I would be selling the wii, never to be replaced again.

Edit: I just asked my son did he know what a credit card was and told him the op's problem. Yes he know's what it is and reckon's "The Mom" should take the Wii off him for a while and make him do job's to pay the money back.

Phoebas

RubyGirl wrote: »

I'd have to agree, I have an 8 year old and he is very aware of money, the value of it etc. Just read this out to my husband, he recokon's use up the credit he bought on him, where as I would be selling the wii, never to be replaced again.

I wouldn't be selling the Wii 'though. I'd be deliberately throwing it out.

I wouldn't want the punishment to be about money at all (or to give the kid any impression that it was about recouping the stolen money). The problem is a breach of trust, not the €60.

toyotaavensis

OP, I am going to make a suggestion to you. Take every toy belonging to him and give it away. Explain to him that if he stole from someone other than his parents he would be in trouble with the law so he is getting off lightly. Then give him some hard work to do for example if you have a small lawn give him a scissors or if not have him clean the yard with a toothbrush. Maybe you can think of better ideas but some horrible punishment should put him on the straight and narrow.

Dubl07

Phoebas wrote: »

I wouldn't be selling the Wii 'though. I'd be deliberately throwing it out.

I wouldn't want the punishment to be about money at all (or to give the kid any impression that it was about recouping the stolen money). The problem is a breach of trust, not the €60.

I disagree. I believe in reparative justice. Nothing is as simple or as black and white as a naughty step in a case like this. There is a breach in trust and a significant financial loss. Both need to be addressed. If the offending party was 18 I'd want his ass thrown in jail and my money back if I were the person whose card had been fraudulently used.

Big Bag of Chips

Phoebas wrote: »

I wouldn't be selling the Wii 'though. I'd be deliberately throwing it out.

I wouldn't be throwing out the Wii, though... They paid good money for it after all!