Zodiac; the best film of the past 10 years? If not, what is?

Frank Lee Midere · 30-01-2014 1:02am

catallus wrote: »

I've watched this about 5 times and I still can't make head nor tail of it[the white ribbon] It is entrancing, but why? Is it the sound??? The creepy silences? I dunno. It is really good but tis no Under Siege.

Isn't it just beautiful to watch? Great acting? An absorbing story? And as you said the silences. The music. That's cinema.

What's it about? It's not about nothing. The foreboding in the movie comes in part from where and when it was shot- the kids will grow up to fight for Germany in WWII. The old order is breaking down. But it avoids the cliches of most story telling. Life isn't always resolved fully, neither was this.

Corholio · 30-01-2014 2:28am

Mousewar wrote: »

That's the whole point of the film??

All I know is that a film based on dreams should have scenes that are even vaguely dreamlike, not scenes that are exactly like real life except you have magical powers.
Only God Forgives, despite its flaws, was much better at capturing a dreamlike reality. As are most David Lynch films.

I can only speak for my dreams, but most of mine have quite a lot of basis in real life situations, people, places etc. They 'built' the dreams the person was having, it was whatever they wanted it to be, barring any steps someone had taken to stop it. A dreamlike reality and constructed dreams are two very different things when comparing those films.

john the one · 30-01-2014 3:04am

im gonna give pans labyrinth a whirl now. hopefully its as much a treat as everyone is making it out to be

LuckyLloyd · 30-01-2014 8:54am

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

This voting list and discussion is all too American though.

It's nobody's fault that the full range of American Cinema stands head and shoulders above the rest.

catallus · 30-01-2014 8:59am

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Isn't it just beautiful to watch? Great acting? An absorbing story? And as you said the silences. The music. That's cinema.

What's it about?..... Life isn't always resolved fully, neither was this.

Yes I've actually watched it again since I posted that, and I'm pretty sure it is one of the films that will stand the test of time; I'm not one to buy into arty films but it was something on a different level.

e_e · 30-01-2014 9:28am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

the full range of American Cinema stands head and shoulders above the rest.

What makes you say this? I'd argue that the 2000s may be the greatest decade yet for non-American cinema.

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 1:14pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's nobody's fault that the full range of American Cinema stands head and shoulders above the rest.

That's just crazy talk - it's been over 30 years since American cinema has been the best in the world. Gone rapidly downhill ever since the 70s.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 1:21pm

Mousewar wrote: »

That's just crazy talk - it's been over 30 years since American cinema has been the best in the world. Gone rapidly downhill ever since the 70s.

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

I don't know how you can make that claim... if you're talking about overall output.

Who in your opinion has been making better films for the last 30+ years?

The French (non!), the Chinese (不), Hong Kong (唔係), Japanese (いいえ), Koreans (아니)... so who?

Seems highly unlikely you'll have a convincing answer, but I'm open (and for the record I'd agree the 70s was a brilliant time for US cinema).

FlashD · 30-01-2014 1:36pm

Mousewar wrote: »

That's just crazy talk - it's been over 30 years since American cinema has been the best in the world. Gone rapidly downhill ever since the 70s.

Well that's your opinion but statistics and facts never lie, American cinema is the dominant force worldwide because people think it is the best. Supply and demand.

The 80's were better than the 70's. Bladerunner, Indy, Terminator, Predator, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, Aliens, the Shining, Empire Strikes Back to name a few.....even Batman finally made an appearance in '89. What a decade!

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 1:42pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

I don't know how you can make that claim... if you're talking about overall output.

Who in your opinion has been making better films for the last 30+ years?

The French (non!), the Chinese (不), Hong Kong (唔係), Japanese (いいえ), Koreans (아니)... so who?

Seems highly unlikely you'll have a convincing answer, but I'm open (and for the record I'd agree the 70s was a brilliant time for US cinema).

Japanese and the French. Easy.
Even the Chinese since the 80s with the fifth generation have been making strong original stuff. America has been remaking the same films for decades now. With every emphasis being on making a buck, originality has been shunned.

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 1:46pm

FlashD wrote: »

Well that's your opinion but statistics and facts never lie, American cinema is the dominant force worldwide because people think it is the best. Supply and demand.

The 80's were better than the 70's. Bladerunner, Indy, Terminator, Predator, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, Aliens, the Shining, Empire Strikes Back to name a few.....even Batman finally made an appearance in '89. What a decade!

You mean it's the most popular? Yeah, we all know that.
Bladerunner, yes. The Shining, yes. The rest are all (enjoyable) blockbuster hokum.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 1:53pm

Mousewar wrote: »

Japanese and the French. Easy.
Even the Chinese since the 80s with the fifth generation have been making strong original stuff. America has been remaking the same films for decades now. With every emphasis being on making a buck, originality has been shunned.

As someone that's seen hundreds of Japanese films and at least 2k HK/Chniese movies I'd definitely disagree.

There's lots of great directors and movies from these places, but I def wouldn't think you'd find many people that would agree.

On top of that, as we both know, Japan and China and HK all love to remake US films as well.. So. You know... I find the whole notion a bit hard to justify.

Skylinehead · 30-01-2014 1:53pm

Mousewar wrote: »

You mean it's the most popular? Yeah, we all know that.
Bladerunner, yes. The Shining, yes. The rest are all (enjoyable) blockbuster hokum.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that, well, any of them should be described as "hokum". You do realise what that word means right?

30-01-2014 1:54pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

As someone that's seen hundreds of Japanese films and at least 2k HK/Chniese movies I'd definitely disagree.
.

:eek::eek::eek:

Where do you get the time to do that?

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 2:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

Where do you get the time to do that?

I managed an Asian Pop Culture store in the US for three years and spent 12 hours a day, somedays, watching Asian movies. And I had to buy in new titles and go to sponsored screenings (I saw Fallen Angels in the cinema maybe 10 times and GITS in the cinema at least 30 times).

We also had meet and greets with famous Asian personalities like Sammo Hung and Donnie Yen, to name two.

So yeah, thousands of Asian movies over the years.

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 2:03pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

On top of that, as we both know, Japan and China and HK all love to remake US films as well

And vice versa!

It's simple for me really. Ever since Spielberg and Lucas introduced the blockbuster, Hollywood has been chasing the dime with films. Any attempts at originality or independent thought are smothered in favour of what the studios know will work - i.e. repeat the same crap.
Other countries will probably go the same way and some are already showing signs but on the whole, over the last thirty years, French, Japanese and Chinese cinema has been far braver, far more original, and far more interesting.

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 2:05pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that, well, any of them should be described as "hokum". You do realise what that word means right?

Aye.
They're nonsense. Enjoyable nonsense.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 2:07pm

Mousewar wrote: »

And vice versa!

It's simple for me really. Ever since Spielberg and Lucas introduced the blockbuster, Hollywood has been chasing the dime with films. Any attempts at originality or independent thought are smothered in favour of what the studios know will work - i.e. repeat the same crap.
Other countries will probably go the same way and some are already showing signs but on the whole, over the last thirty years, French, Japanese and Chinese cinema has been far braver, far more original, and far more interesting.

I wouldn't disagree that these countries took more chances, but even if you just look at production values and screenwriting the Japanese and Chinese have been miles behind the US for the entire time, with few exceptions.

I love Asian movies - love them so much - but as a whole I just disagree. As a whole.

Any given year the best movie could be from anywhere, but cumulatively... No. IMO.

Decuc500 · 30-01-2014 2:37pm

Mousewar wrote: »

Hollywood has been chasing the dime with films. Any attempts at originality or independent thought are smothered in favour of what the studios know will work - i.e. repeat the same crap.
Other countries will probably go the same way and some are already showing signs but on the whole, over the last thirty years, French, Japanese and Chinese cinema has been far braver, far more original, and far more interesting.

Are we talking Hollywood or America? Because nobody can argue with the quality of American cinema for the past 30 years. Forget about Hollywood. The quality and scope of non-Hollywood American cinema is consistently amazing and easily the par of any other countries output.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 3:16pm

It's funny though, if you just choose random years and try and determine what the best movie world wide is...

Choose 1988, for example

Japan:
Akira
Totoro
Grave of the Fireflies
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
Urusei Yatsura - Final Chapter
Hope And Pain

HK:
As Tears Go By
Painted Faces
Police Story 2
School on Fire
Tiger Cage
Dragons Forever

China::
Red Sorghum

France:
Hotel Terminus
Camille Claudel
The Music Teacher

Spain:
Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown

US:
Rainman
The Abyss
Beaches
Big
Beatlejuice
Die Hard
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Eight Men Out
Running On Empty
Naked Gun
Last Temptation of Christ
Thin Blue Line
Bull Durham
Midnight Run
Dead Ringers
They Live!

UK:
A Fish Called Wanda
Dangerous Liaisons
Drowning By Numbers

Netherlands:
The Vanishing

Italy:
Cinema Paradiso

Poland:
A Short Film About Killing

Czechoslovakia:
Alice

India:
Salaam Bombay! (though not REALLY a purely Indian production)

Which country "won" this year?

And yes I know I left everyone's favourite film of 1988 of the list.

Frank Lee Midere · 30-01-2014 3:22pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's funny though, if you just choose random years and try and determine what the best movie world wide is...

Choose 1988, for example

Japan:
Akira
Totoro
Grave of the Fireflies
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
Urusei Yatsura - Final Chapter
Hope And Pain

HK:
As Tears Go By
Painted Faces
Police Story 2
School on Fire
Tiger Cage
Dragons Forever

China::
Red Sorghum

France:
Hotel Terminus
Camille Claudel

Spain:
Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown

US:
Rainman
The Abyss
Beaches
Big
Beatlejuice
Die Hard
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Eight Men Out
Running On Empty
Naked Gun
Last Temptation of Christ
Thin Blue Line
Bull Durham
Midnight Run
Dead Ringers
They Live!

UK:
A Fish Called Wanda
Dangerous Liaisons
Drowning By Numbers

Netherlands:
The Vanishing

Italy:
Cinema Paradiso

Poland:
A Short Film About Killing

Czechoslovakia:
Alice

India:
Salaam Bombay! (though not REALLY a purely Indian production)

Which country "won" this year?

And yes I know I left everyone's favourite film of 1988 of the list.

Well I started this aside by saying the list on top of the thread was too American. That list isn't, even if America possibly dominates. And most of us can't tell really, I watch plenty of foreign language movies and I've seen 3 on that list. And two were uniquely popular outside their home countries. I've seen all the American movies. Given that fact American movies would dominate most peoples list. Still, worth pointing out. We all have a bias to what we watch.

Mousewar · 30-01-2014 3:26pm

Flippin' hell. I'm starting to think I'm in over my head here.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 3:28pm

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Well I started this aside by saying the list on top of the thread was too American. That list isn't, even if America possibly dominates. And most of us can't tell really, I watch plenty of foreign language movies and I've seen 3 on that list. And two were uniquely popular outside their home countries. I've seen all the American movies. Given that fact American movies would dominate most peoples list. Still, worth pointing out. We all have a bias to what we watch.

Of course! We almost as a rule prefer what we know.

Saying that I've seen all but maybe 3-4 on that list and I'd vote that on whole the US wins 1988.

But different years might be different AND did the US produce the best overall film of '88? Maybe not.

30-01-2014 3:38pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I managed an Asian Pop Culture store in the US for three years and spent 12 hours a day, somedays, watching Asian movies. And I had to buy in new titles and go to sponsored screenings (I saw Fallen Angels in the cinema maybe 10 times and GITS in the cinema at least 30 times).

We also had meet and greets with famous Asian personalities like Sammo Hung and Donnie Yen, to name two.

So yeah, thousands of Asian movies over the years.

Fair enough! I don't envy you

Nerdlingr · 30-01-2014 3:41pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

And yes I know I left everyone's favourite film of 1988 of the list.

No you didnt. One of my top 3 films ever is in that list.

e_e · 30-01-2014 3:41pm

Mousewar wrote: »

And vice versa!

It's simple for me really. Ever since Spielberg and Lucas introduced the blockbuster, Hollywood has been chasing the dime with films. Any attempts at originality or independent thought are smothered in favour of what the studios know will work - i.e. repeat the same crap.
Other countries will probably go the same way and some are already showing signs but on the whole, over the last thirty years, French, Japanese and Chinese cinema has been far braver, far more original, and far more interesting.

So spot on, if we're arguing Hollywood vs. the rest of the world (and maybe the American independent too) then it must be the latter every time for me.

e_e · 30-01-2014 3:42pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

And yes I know I left everyone's favourite film of 1988 of the list.

No you didn't Grave of the Fireflies/My Neighbor Totoro were the best thing of that year.

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 3:59pm

e_e wrote: »

No you didn't Grave of the Fireflies/My Neighbor Totoro were the best thing of that year.

It's not a hard case to make though I'd personally have Akira instead of Grave because I think it's a singular achievement.

GOTF is amazing though. Truly touching and awful and beautiful.

No argument re: Totoro

Of course some people would argue that Thin Blue Line is better, or Women on the Verge or They Live or even As Tears Go By (a classic, classic flick).

MilanPan!c · 30-01-2014 4:04pm

Nerdlingr wrote: »

No you didnt. One of my top 3 films ever is in that list.

Let me guess:

Big

Frank Black · 30-01-2014 4:07pm

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's funny though, if you just choose random years and try and determine what the best movie world wide is...

Choose 1988, for example

Japan:
Akira
Totoro
Grave of the Fireflies
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
Urusei Yatsura - Final Chapter
Hope And Pain

HK:
As Tears Go By
Painted Faces
Police Story 2
School on Fire
Tiger Cage
Dragons Forever

China::
Red Sorghum

France:
Hotel Terminus
Camille Claudel
The Music Teacher

Spain:
Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown

US:
Rainman
The Abyss
Beaches
Big
Beatlejuice
Die Hard
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Eight Men Out
Running On Empty
Naked Gun
Last Temptation of Christ
Thin Blue Line
Bull Durham
Midnight Run
Dead Ringers
They Live!

UK:
A Fish Called Wanda
Dangerous Liaisons
Drowning By Numbers

Netherlands:
The Vanishing

Italy:
Cinema Paradiso

Poland:
A Short Film About Killing

Czechoslovakia:
Alice

India:
Salaam Bombay! (though not REALLY a purely Indian production)

Which country "won" this year?

And yes I know I left everyone's favourite film of 1988 of the list.

Nope, you've included Die Hard.

Zodiac; the best film of the past 10 years? If not, what is?

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