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  • #332
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sarky wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure there is not a single reasonable person making excuses for the christian god's genocidal tendencies.
    That's because it is unreasonable to accuse God (who Created all, incuding His accusers) of being a murderer, in the first place.


  • #333
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    J C wrote: »
    He doesn't need any courts of appeal as He is omnipotent and omniscient, perfectly just and perfectly merciful.
    ... and therefore His decisions are perfect first time and every time.
    His justice impels Him to punish ... and His mercy impels Him to forgive.

    The choice of whether we receive punishment or forgiveness is up to us.

    "He is Omnipotent and Omniscient"

    Yet he didn't know in advance that humans would become corrupt. And if he did know, well that's even worse.

    "His mercy impels him to forgive".
    Sure as hell didn't forgive the innocent children and unborn he kills in the flood.

    How can you not see the astounding leaps of logic you must make to believe this JC?

    By all means, believe in a higher power. But don't take this stuff literally, it's like something out of a comic book.


  • #334
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    What happened, J C? You used to try harder at this divine genocide apologist stuff.


  • #335
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,030 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    Children (or anybody else) certainly wouldn't get better care from Satan and his accomplices on Earth before the Flood or in Hell after it.

    Really? Because the last time I checked the one sending plagues, killer angels or global floods was God. Satan seems to get a bad rep even though it's your god running amok through creation slaughtering people.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #336
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    J C wrote: »
    God doesn't create evil ... we do

    Probably because we were created in his image. That's our excuse, what's his excuse?


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  • #337
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    They didn't have a choice. The Drowner wiped them off the face of the Earth. And as they were wicked, they were condemned to hell.
    ... only if they continued to reject God, right up to the point of death.
    What would you do, if you were a just God ... and somebody was rejecting your mercy?
    Would you not grant them their wish?


  • #338
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    I'm fairly confident koth wouldn't murder every man, woman and child on the planet if he was a god. He is capable of making points without such idiotic temper tantrums.


  • #339
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,030 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    ... only if they continued to reject God, right up to the point of death.
    What would you do, if you were a just God ... and somebody was rejecting your mercy?
    Would you not grant them their wish?

    I wouldn't kill them. They could reject me until the end of time if they chose. They would be welcome in paradise regardless because I would be a truly merciful god.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #340
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    "He is Omnipotent and Omniscient"

    Yet he didn't know in advance that humans would become corrupt. And if he did know, well that's even worse.
    Why is it worse? ... there are many good people doing good things ... and receiving their just rewards ... and these outweigh the bad people doing bad things and receiving their just punishments.
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    "His mercy impels him to forgive".
    Sure as hell didn't forgive the innocent children and unborn he kills in the flood.
    How do you know that?
    How do you know that there were children there ... and if there were, how do you know that they weren't better off in heaven than living in an evil hell on earth?

    Sonics2k wrote: »
    How can you not see the astounding leaps of logic you must make to believe this JC?
    You're the guys making the leaps of faith ... and gambling with your eternal destiny.
    I'll bet that you wear a seat belt on the remote chance that you could bump your head in an accident (that you might have) ... yet you are totally cavallier when it comes to your eternal safety following death (that you are certain will happen).
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    By all means, believe in a higher power. But don't take this stuff literally, it's like something out of a comic book.
    The issue of death and life, good and evil ... and God's omnipotence and our free-will are issues in the here and now ... and irrespective of whether Noahs Flood ever occurred.


  • #341
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    I wouldn't kill them. They could reject me until the end of time if they chose. They would be welcome in paradise regardless because I would be a truly merciful god.
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?


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  • #342
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    So koth is more merciful than your god, I'm glad we've cleared that up for you.


  • #343
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Even if God flooded the Earth? How does He destroy THUNDERBIRD 4?
    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?

    Why wouldn't a merciful just god forgive such evil? He made it in the first place, he's responsible for the design flaws.


  • #344
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,522 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    A Better question would be, would the Dr. have rescued Noah?
    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?
    Forgive.


  • #345
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    I suspect I'd be of a similar vein. Y'know, forgive them, or show them politely where they were going wrong. This 'drown the f*ckers' thing is just crass petulant throwing your toys out of the pram in a really big way.

    Man, being more merciful than J C's god is easy.


  • #346
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?

    A truely merciful and omnipotent god would upload a patch to fix them.


  • #347
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,030 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?

    yes. I'd be all-powerful. Whatever evil exists is of no threat to me (the godly one). It also depends what this 'evil' is.

    If it's not being all gushy towards me, then meh. Anything else I can stop from happening. Time and effort are nothing to a god.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #348
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?

    Man has found astonishing ways over the years to kill each other. One bomb can kill millions, one mutated virus could kill BILLIONS we have EVERY kind of perversion you could think of available to watch at the touch of a button. Marriage is nearly dead, children are born out of wedlock and people reject the church due to the perverted actions of your "Gods" servants. Why are we no worse than the people of thousands of years ago and why has your "God" not murdered us all? And please don't give me that Nephelim shagging fairytale BS.


  • #349
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why wouldn't a merciful just god forgive such evil? He made it in the first place, he's responsible for the design flaws.
    He will forgive people who repent of evil ... but not unrepentent evil.


  • #350
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    J C wrote: »
    He will forgive people who repent of evil ... but not unrepentent evil.

    That's mercy with limits. You're doubling back on your 'infinitely merciful' spiel. didn't take long, either.


  • #351
    Gordon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,522 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    A Better question would be, would the Dr. have rescued Noah?
    J C wrote: »
    He will forgive people who repent of evil ... but not unrepentent evil.
    "Everyone is unrepentent of evil, until they repent."

    ~Gord - 13:37


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  • #352
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why wouldn't a merciful just god forgive such evil? He made it in the first place, he's responsible for the design flaws.
    God didn't create evil ... we do, using our freedom to do good or evil.
    ... and God will forgive repentent evil ... but not un-repentent evil doers.

    Would you expect any just judge to forgive an unrepentent criminal?


  • #353
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    ... but would you be merciful to unrepentent evil ... that showed no sign of remorse and gave every indication of continuing to wreak havock indefinitely?

    Explain again how children were evil and ran amok enough to be allowed to drown. To have their lives and free will taken from them. Too have any chance of believing or rejecting god taken away

    explain again how humans were so evil that all of them ,all men women and children had to be exterminated by a god of love and mercy

    what exactly were their crimes that the whole population of earth had to perish.

    Explain again why animals with no rational thought were drowned unless they could survive underwater. Surely they didnt/couldnt sin

    explain why it wasnt just the corrupters of men who suffered.

    explain again how long these crimes were happening over

    explain how the innocent would be better off in heaven , surely you cant make that call.


  • #354
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,030 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    God didn't create evil ... we do, using our freedom to do good or evil.
    ... and God will forgive repentent evil ... but not un-repentent evil doers.

    Would you expect any just judge to forgive an unrepentent criminal?

    A judge that has the ability to literally do anything? Could unmake creation if they desired? Damn skippy, they'd forgive.

    They could shape events in the criminals life so they would never have the desire to commit a crime.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #355
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Man has found astonishing ways over the years to kill each other. One bomb can kill millions, one mutated virus could kill BILLIONS we have EVERY kind of perversion you could think of available to watch at the touch of a button. Marriage is nearly dead, children are born out of wedlock and people reject the church due to the perverted actions of your "Gods" servants. Why are we no worse than the people of thousands of years ago and why has your "God" not murdered us all? And please don't give me that Nephelim shagging fairytale BS.
    Despite all that ... we still have more good people and more goodness than evil ... while in Noah's time it wall to wall 24/7 evil by everyone on Earth.


  • #356
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Also explain why he didnt just kill noah and his family too and start from scratch
    surely noah would have been better off in heaven too


  • #357
    Sin City
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    J C wrote: »
    Despite all that ... we still have more good people and more goodness than evil ... while in Noah's time it wall to wall 24/7 evil by everyone on Earth.

    Those killer toddlers realy were a menece alright


  • #358
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    smcgiff wrote: »
    A truely merciful and omnipotent god would upload a patch to fix them.
    ... a patch will only fix a deterministic system, like a computer ... it has no effect on free-will.


  • #359
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,030 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    FYI: This is Option Number Twenty-Five. Isn't this being a bit, uh, mean on the hamsters?
    J C wrote: »
    Despite all that ... we still have more good people and more goodness than evil ... while in Noah's time it wall to wall 24/7 evil by everyone on Earth.

    well you would say that. The alternative is to admit that drowning men, women and children is the actions of a wicked creature.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #360
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    OMG! Spoiler!
    Aha! I thought this all seemed familiar in a way that had nothing to do with the usual déja vu we all get from J C repeating his tired old debunked nonsense again. It's been bugging me for ages but I finally nailed it down: Watching J C's attempts at evangelising is a lot like reading an episode of Axe Cop. The amazing flights of fantasy, makey-uppy excuses, the lack of logical consistency even between something said now and what was said less than five minutes ago...


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  • #361
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sarky wrote: »
    I suspect I'd be of a similar vein. Y'know, forgive them, or show them politely where they were going wrong.
    God is patient ... and He has politely shown people were they're going wrong ... and indeed their consciences tell them this as well.
    God is also forgiving to all who ask.

    ... but He will not tolerate un-repentent indefinite evil.


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