Lack of new routes at Cork airport

Mushy

Carnacalla wrote: »

I suppose the loss of the SNN-BRS service would increase the numbers quite a bit?

The downfall of the airport is a mixture of a few things, mainly high fees, the M8 to Dublin and Ryanair forcing everyone off routes and then cutting them themselves.

I wouldn't know, we were going to Cardiff and couldn't be bothered going to Dublin for that flight.

That's why I don't like Ryanair, and somebody needs to step in to ensure the future of the airport. Have to spend money to make money.

JCX BXC

RYANAIR SAY MOVEMENT IS NEEDED TO LOWER CORK AIRPORT CHARGES ( Evening Echo )

Ryanair’s chief marketing officer has said a “big movement” is needed to reduce airline charges at Cork Airport if it is to become competitive again with other airports.

The loss of routes and declining passenger numbers at Cork Airport has raised concerns about its ongoing demise and the impact of this on the local economy.

Ryanair’s Kenny Jacobs was in Cork’s Clarion Hotel last night to speak to business people about the airlines new customer-friendly approach.
Mr Jacobs said Ryanair could only bring more routes to Cork Airport if they were profitable.
He said: “More flights can come. There needs to be a good deal for all airlines, not just Ryanair at the airport.



This is another remark by Ryanair about the high airport fees in Cork. It obviously points that Ryanair have a good interest in Cork Airport which means that they wont be gotten rid of. By the looks of Ryanairs recent statements in the media also say that LCC are the only way to go in Europe, so if that's the case, Cork could only last so long without Ryanair.

roundymac

Carnacalla wrote: »

RYANAIR SAY MOVEMENT IS NEEDED TO LOWER CORK AIRPORT CHARGES ( Evening Echo )

Ryanair’s chief marketing officer has said a “big movement” is needed to reduce airline charges at Cork Airport if it is to become competitive again with other airports.

The loss of routes and declining passenger numbers at Cork Airport has raised concerns about its ongoing demise and the impact of this on the local economy.

Ryanair’s Kenny Jacobs was in Cork’s Clarion Hotel last night to speak to business people about the airlines new customer-friendly approach.
Mr Jacobs said Ryanair could only bring more routes to Cork Airport if they were profitable.
He said: “More flights can come. There needs to be a good deal for all airlines, not just Ryanair at the airport.



This is another remark by Ryanair about the high airport fees in Cork. It obviously points that Ryanair have a good interest in Cork Airport which means that they wont be gotten rid of. By the looks of Ryanairs recent statements in the media also say that LCC are the only way to go in Europe, so if that's the case, Cork could only last so long without Ryanair.

More Ryanair propagada, Fr have no loyalty to anyone, you could give them free access to Cork and they would still want more.

Masala

Carnacalla wrote: »

RYANAIR SAY MOVEMENT IS NEEDED TO LOWER CORK AIRPORT CHARGES ( Evening Echo )


This is another remark by Ryanair about the high airport fees in Cork. It obviously points that Ryanair have a good interest in Cork Airport which means that they wont be gotten rid of. By the looks of Ryanairs recent statements in the media also say that LCC are the only way to go in Europe, so if that's the case, Cork could only last so long without Ryanair.

........ as said earlier this is just the usual spin-doctoring by FR. Cork probably have generous 'start-up' packages that FR could avail of - but they not interested in them cos they dont want to really put on new flights from Cork. This is just usual back stabbing of DAA . As far as I remember the Cork charges are only €8 per departing pax.... hardly going to push fares into double digits.

The only interest FR has in Cork is breaking the DAA charges in Dublin .

Jack1985

Carnacalla wrote: »

I suppose the loss of the SNN-BRS service would increase the numbers quite a bit?

The downfall of the airport is a mixture of a few things, mainly high fees, the M8 to Dublin and Ryanair forcing everyone off routes and then cutting them themselves.

Sorry Carnacalla, regards high-fees this is incorrect. Fees are low - lower than at BRS for example and look at the EZY operation there. We were discussing Cork in work today and a play the airport should consider is a new tariff table allowing existing operators on an existing route which say for example FR target from SNN, zero fees then increase on an incremental scale as per the competing airport.

beer enigma

Jack1985 wrote: »

Sorry Carnacalla, regards high-fees this is incorrect. Fees are low - lower than at BRS for example and look at the EZY operation there. We were discussing Cork in work today and a play the airport should consider is a new tariff table allowing existing operators on an existing route which say for example FR target from SNN, zero fees then increase on an incremental scale as per the competing airport.

Not quite sure the increasing model would work but an interesting proposal. The argument should be can Cork cut fees and still service the debt. Forget daa writing it off, the reality is that Cork has a debt to service, like it or not - that's the current reality - if that changes then fine but as it stands, Cork has debt.

If Cork bends to FR and cuts fees then it's a downward spiral.Let's say Cork cuts fees and gets extra FR routes, what's to stop FR threatening to pull those new routes next year back to SNN because they've offered a better deal, Cork would be in an even worse position. Ryanair (and not only Ryanair) are in this to make money and will play one airport against another. If Cork cut fees to service Ryanair it could the beginning of the end. Cork have to be able to service the debt and need to hold their position.

KCAccidental

how about wooing Easyjet to create an 'exclusive' base at the expense of Ryanair? Let them get a foothold in the irish market and bring something else. I assume that would contravene EU competition rules though?

JCX BXC

KCAccidental wrote: »

how about wooing Easyjet to create an 'exclusive' base at the expense of Ryanair? Let them get a foothold in the irish market and bring something else. I assume that would contravene EU competition rules though?

There's so many reasons why that can't happen, and why its not a good idea .

I'll give you a quick few.

Why it can't happen

1. The DAA won't lower corks charges to allow easyjet in.

2. Even If the charges are lowered and Easyjet get in, they will get every route they put in matched and doubled by Ryanair. No profit for easyjet there.

3. Easyjet can almost defaintly make better profits in their other markets. They have a minor name in Ireland and have a lot of profit to be make in Europe.

4. If easyjet got a great deal and Ryanair didn't, they would make a holy show of cork.

5. You also cannot keep Ryanair out, if they want in, cork or any airport in Europe cannot stop them.

Why its a bad idea

1. Let's get an foreign airline in, to compete with Europe's largest airline who pays taxes in Ireland, despite it leading to the compete withdrawal (easyjet) or extreme scaling down (Ryanair and Aer Lingus) of operations at cork.

2. Easy jet would fly to Paris and Amsterdam and drive off Aer Lingus. No connections with easyjet! Bad bad idea.

3. Any hope of cork getting independence and a debt write off would go as it would appear cork has recovered while Easyjet and Ryanair face it off.

These are my opinions. Im not trying to slander you idea, I even thought of it before! But once you think about it, it won't work. Easyjet tried ORK-LGW before and received a monster response from Ryanair.

JCX BXC

Blow to Cork air link hopes(http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/blow-to-cork-air-link-hopes-308565.html] Irish Examiner )

Hopes that the much sought-after Cork-Dublin air route could be reintroduced have been dealt a blow by Ryanair, which says demand probably would not be strong enough to warrant its reintroduction.

******************
I have never seen such a bad article! The title does not read right at all, that I noticed before opening the article. It then gets even stupider saying that the the Much sought-after Cork-Dublin air route has been dealt a blow by Ryanair who says their is not a strong enough demand.

What gobsh*ite ever though Ryanair would do this route in the first place? Its pretty obvious that you wont fill a 189 seater plane on a very short irish domestic route, especially on a twice daily rotation which is what businesses would want. They also want to be able to connect in dublin quickly, and ryanair don't do this!

It was always and should still always have been EI regional in mind. Buinesses want a 2x daily service with times to fit T/A connections and for evening returns, not a bloody 1x daily service at 2 pm which would be practically useless.

keithclancy

It's a shame there is no Airline with a connecting flight to Dublin from Cork, I think many people would use it for ongoing routes no served by Cork, e.g. Dusseldorf

At the moment I'm flying to Amsterdam and then getting the ICE down as I can't be bothered dealing with the Aircoach

Blackie Grey

I travelled recently to Barcelona from Dublin I had to get the 1 am bus from patricks quay -the journey is a nightmare you be up in Dublin at 430 like a zombie getting ready for a 640 am flight -totally wrecks your day .Cork airport might aswell be closed for me cant go anywhere decent from it

rebs23

Andip wrote: »

Not quite sure the increasing model would work but an interesting proposal. The argument should be can Cork cut fees and still service the debt. Forget daa writing it off, the reality is that Cork has a debt to service, like it or not - that's the current reality - if that changes then fine but as it stands, Cork has n.

Shannon got a huge debt write off (100 Million) and independence. The result of which are less charges than Cork inticing routes from Cork to Shannon.
We should be aiming to get the same deal.

irishguy1983

Why can't they lower the charges?? Maybe I am looking at it too simple but surely more routes of good for business. Cork Airport is losing out massively to Dublin with so many travelling up to Dublin now. Cork people are losing out too.

It seems a lose lose for everyone and yet there seems a simple solution! Or maybe I am viewing it too simply?!

namloc1980

irishguy1983 wrote: »

Why can't they lower the charges?? Maybe I am looking at it too simple but surely more routes of good for business. Cork Airport is losing out massively to Dublin with so many travelling up to Dublin now. Cork people are losing out too.

It seems a lose lose for everyone and yet there seems a simple solution! Or maybe I am viewing it too simply?!

The Dublin Airport Authority own Cork airport. Their primary concern is the promotion of Dublin airport. They couldn't give a fiddlers about Cork.

JCX BXC

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Dublin Airport Authority own Cork airport. Their primary concern is the promotion of Dublin airport. They couldn't give a fiddlers about Cork.

I always thought that 3 airports being controlled by the one airport authority who has 99% of their focus on one airport, in which the authority is named after. Heathrow used to own stansted airport, but they were made sell it, why cant the DAA be made sell cork? Is their politicts behind it?

irishguy1983

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Dublin Airport Authority own Cork airport. Their primary concern is the promotion of Dublin airport. They couldn't give a fiddlers about Cork.

That helps a lot - thank you!

Surely tis better to have Cork booming aswell. I get the feeling their is lot more to this than meets they eye.

Their is a huge demand from the region for more routes, airlines could make a profit, would help Cork, etc. Something just doesn't add up!

Masala

[QUOTE=Carnacalla;, why cant the DAA be made sell cork? Is their politicts behind it?[/QUOTE]

Who in their right minds would buy it????? The first thing an investor would want to see is a Business Plan. Where is Cork going in next 5 years. What are the prospects.....another FR dominated airport???? That's not going to repay any investment.

The grass always look greener on the other side.

It a **** business out there existing on your own.... I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to come out from the DAA umbrella and the security it brings.

I would say that Knock would love to have that security.....

Masala

irishguy1983 wrote: »

That helps a lot - thank you!

Their is a huge demand from the region for more routes, airlines could make a profit, would help Cork, etc. Something just doesn't add up!

A bit naive that...... Just cos your uncle would fly over from Leeds every August won't convince an airline. Will this demand pay €120-€150 a return flight to UK??? Not all airlines can run their business on €39.99 fares. That's the problem... Everyone wants flights.. But are not prepared to support them!!!

irishguy1983

Masala wrote: »

A bit naive that...... Just cos your uncle would fly over from Leeds every August won't convince an airline. Will this demand pay €120-€150 a return flight to UK??? Not all airlines can run their business on €39.99 fares. That's the problem... Everyone wants flights.. But are not prepared to support them!!!

I am not suggesting that but I do think there is enough demand for more flights and I think most people seem to agree with this!

Obviously not as many flights as Dublin but certainly there would be enough demand and support to have more routes and have them profitable - well at least this is what I am reading anyway.

Masala

Hi irishguy.. And I don't mean to be smart in the above reply!!!

An airline like FR won't pay airport charges.... And airports have bills to pay. No point in being a busy fool... There is not enought ancillary Money in car park, bars Etc to make enough profiits.

New flights can end up costing airports money in advertising, excreta staff, additional equipment etc... And all in return for marginal monies on car park etc.

and remember ... People will vote with their feet. In Munster - there is cork, Kerry and Shannon to chose from and a family of 4 in cork would have no qualms in driving to Shannon to save €30 a head!!! That's the loyalty an airport can expect....

namloc1980

Reports today that IAG are preparing a new bid to buy Aer Lingus at €2.50 a share and the board are set to accept the offer. Even more uncertain times for Cork now.

Jack1985

namloc1980 wrote: »

Even more uncertain times for Cork now.

How, exactly?

JCX BXC

May I ask is their any other active Cork Airport threads?

Ludo

Jack1985 wrote: »

How, exactly?

Presumably as the idea seems to be that all buyers want aer lingus for is their Heathrow slots rather than the airline itself. So theoretically the cork London route could disappear or be reduced if the IAG (British airways) offer goes through.

Jack1985

Ludo wrote: »

Presumably as the idea seems to be that all buyers want aer lingus for is their Heathrow slots rather than the airline itself. So theoretically the cork London route could disappear or be reduced if the IAG (British airways) offer goes through.

All speculation of which neither you nor me know at present. And to be honest the day's events matter more to me and my fellow colleagues than any of EI's ORK routes which are profitable. I've pointed out in other forums where BA could cut some of their own routes to grow long haul including getting six slots from LBA which is loss-making. IAG in my opinion want to secure Heathrow slots not buy Aer Lingus and grab all of them to BA closing routes. It won't happen, neither me nor the staff will let that happen. It would be a simple case of downing tools.

Ludo

Jack1985 wrote: »

All speculation of which neither you nor me know at present. And to be honest the day's events matter more to me and my fellow colleagues than any of EI's ORK routes which are profitable. I've pointed out in other forums where BA could cut some of their own routes to grow long haul including getting six slots from LBA which is loss-making. IAG in my opinion want to secure Heathrow slots not buy Aer Lingus and grab all of them to BA closing routes. It won't happen, neither me nor the staff will let that happen. It would be a simple case of downing tools.

So basically you knew well the answer to your question but needed to be setup to get your spiel out for some reason with your "how exactly" post instead of just posting it.

And I did say presumably the idea is...never said I believe this will happen.

Jack1985

Ludo wrote: »

So basically you knew well the answer to your question but needed to be setup to get your spiel out for some reason with your "how exactly" post instead of just posting it.

And I did say presumably the idea is...never said I believe this will happen.

So why post it then?

Ludo

Jack1985 wrote: »

So why post it then?

Why post the commonly held belief as to the motive behind the purchase? Coz I didn't realise you were playing dumb. I stupidly assumed you were genuinely enquiring as to why people thought it would be in more doubt now....obviously. Sorry for trying to be helpful.

By the way...when you say "neither me nor the staff well let that happen..." What do you mean? Are you on the staff or not? The phrasing implies you are not but that you are in some way involved.

Jack1985

Ludo wrote: »

By the way...when you say "neither me nor the staff well let that happen..." What do you mean? Are you on the staff or not? The phrasing implies you are not but that you are in some way involved.

Of which would have nothing to do with you. Sorry I even mentioned it.

beer enigma

Ok first boards rules, post against the subject matter, not another poster, Second, stay on topic.