Battlefield 4 [aaaarrrghhh bitching and moaning]

BlitzKrieg

It's not directly bf4 but...


Over the weekend I got a new mobo and CPU to help my bf4 woes I swapped out an old amd phenom x4 for a new. I5 4670 and I only got to play bf4 once with my new system.

The list of problems I had has me tearing hair out

First my bios wouldn't show with my current gfx card so I had to swap to my old one just to boot up windows

Then my gaming mechanical keyboard refuses to work forcing me to try bf4 with an old Mac USB keyboard

Now while trying to fix my gaming keyboard I updated my windows 7 and now none of my USB ports work so I can't log in at all. I got to go look for a ps/2 keyboard tomorrow so I can just log in and fix my USB ports at least *cries*

It's been a stressful week do far

dreamers75

One of those flying bastards can take down the little bird.

Was doing well last night and kept getting hit with no lock on noise, took us a while to figure out a flock of flying bastards was hitting us.

Couldnt tell which one we got the "KIA" screen with no weapon mentioned.

Tazzimus

dreamers75 wrote: »

One of those flying bastards can take down the little bird.

Was doing well last night and kept getting hit with no lock on noise, took us a while to figure out a flock of flying bastards was hitting us.

Couldnt tell which one we got the "KIA" screen with no weapon mentioned.

Looks to be like the MAV being able to take down the AC-130 in BF3. Very annoying that.

Sparks

Hang on, one SUAV hit is all you need to take out a scout? That's insanely evil.


/makes mental note
I'll teach that invincible indestructible flying pain in my arse now!

Cuddlesworth

Sparks wrote: »

Powerline and wifi are never going to give you as good a performance as a length of cat 5e running straight to your router (and wifi especially will bump up your latency times noticably). That said, you can no more say it's packet drop than you can say it's the network stack just from looking at a video like that. It's enough to start your debugging with, yes (but so would be the number of sunspots on a given day, the starting point is more often than not a very long way from the end point with debugging); but you need to add quite a bit of work and testing and actual data to actually debug the problem, as opposed to making a youtube pundit video denouncing the dev team for not fixing it.

That could be the case. But since me and plenty of other people experience none of those particular hit issues, my instinct points to either client or server issues not code.

And yes, powerline adds about 3-5ms onto your ping and while its a better alternative to wifi its not as good as a actual cable. I noticed latency and packet loss spikes when I had cisco switches running aggressive SLA's back to the gateway, they coincided with new video streams or downloads from me or my gf.

Bohrio

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

That could be the case. But since me and plenty of other people experience none of those particular hit issues, my instinct points to either client or server issues not code.

And yes, powerline adds about 3-5ms onto your ping and while its a better alternative to wifi its not as good as a actual cable. I noticed latency and packet loss spikes when I had cisco switches running aggressive SLA's back to the gateway, they coincided with new video streams or downloads from me or my gf.

Last week when I was able to connect and play BF online I did have some random issues with hit detection, normally if it was with more than 1 player I would just leave the lobby and rejoin another one, I was also having that issue where bullets count double etc... The hit detection happened very rarely and normally it wouldnt be something to be concerned about.

Also, I dont know if this just happens to me but I knew I was being thrown into a non european lobby because after the game would load for the first time, lets say in a specific map, half way through the loading process it would stop loading, the screen will go black and then start loading a completely different map. I was using the quick match option back then.

I am on FTTH so latency is not an issue, I get a RRT to bbc.co.uk of less than 2 ms, average 1ms. No packet loss either.

I have had terrible issues with COD BO2 and Ghost because of their lag compensation system, hence why I ended up playing BF.

Cuddlesworth

Bohrio wrote: »

I am on FTTH so latency is not an issue, I get a RRT to bbc.co.uk of less than 2 ms, average 1ms. No packet loss either

I was going to write a sarcastic response but I decided against it.

The only way you could get a average ping of 1ms to a British IP, is if you were right beside the same datacenter that hosts bbc.co.uk, with the same ISP they use. And even then its unlikely due to the inherent latency that their and your router would add, the interfaces and conversions and the processing time to respond to the actual ping.

I'm also going to add, that when you say FTTH you mean Eircom. In terms of networking and Ireland, Eircom are not the bastion of rock solid connectivity in any normal circumstance.

Propagation alone would have you at 2.46ms to London from Dublin(where BBC.co.uk is based).

Sparks

Agreed on the rest, but the FTTH is a Magnet thing, not Eircom (yeah, I know, the backbone's still Eircom, but the last mile's the bitch, you know that).

And on FFTH, your ping time to a UK server is never going below 12ms (I've tried, with a fair bit of pushing - you just don't have enough control over your network on FTTH to push down any further reliably, and even at that you're running a mostly-defenceless windows PC live on the intertubes, which is a stupendously bad idea...)

Bohrio

Sparks wrote: »

Agreed on the rest, but the FTTH is a Magnet thing, not Eircom (yeah, I know, the backbone's still Eircom, but the last mile's the bitch, you know that).

And on FFTH, your ping time to a UK server is never going below 12ms (I've tried, with a fair bit of pushing - you just don't have enough control over your network on FTTH to push down any further reliably, and even at that you're running a mostly-defenceless windows PC live on the intertubes, which is a stupendously bad idea...)

Hey Sparks, just to let you know, Magnet's FTTH doesnt use Eircom's backbone network it is all under magnets domain, from the CPS at the Customer's premises to the moment it reaches the "internet". This type of product is completely independent to Eircoms Wholesale products. Similar to UPC broadband. Magents FTTH provides a Fibre link from Magnets Core Routers to the customer, in some cases the link could terminate directly on an ODF or on a GigE/FE CPS.

Eircom currently sell three main data products (not including WLR products through dial up such as PSTN ISDN)

- Bitstream (this include BMB, legacy Bitstream services, etc)
- LLU (including Line Sharing/ULMP and GLUMP)
- NGA (next generation access broadband, aka Eircom Fibre Broadband or Eircom's FTTC)

In comparison, LLU products (such as Line Sharing or ULMP) will only make use of Eircom's wholesale copper network (last mile), then the ISP will "take over" at a exchange level (buy introducing their own DSLAM/equipment, ODF, etc). LLU products require the Access Seeker (or ISP) to provide connectivity from the Exchange (from their DSLAM) to their own backbone/core network. This is done outside Eircom's jurisdiction and is entirely up to the Access Seeker to do this.

Bitstream services are completely dependent of Eircom's Wholesale infrastructure (from the customer's premises to their backbone network is all Eircom maintained equipment [except CPE]) where, depending on the ISP will be handed over through Eircoms BECS to the ISPs core network.

It is important not to confuse FTTH with FTTC (or NGA) although not all FTTC connections are NGA (some ISPs like Smart use to do provide this service as well which was different to the current Eircom FTTC service), Non NGA FTTC it is similarl to FTTH.

Hope this clears things out although it will probably confuse things even more:)

Sparks

Bohrio wrote: »

Hey Sparks, just to let you know, Magnet's FTTH doesnt use Eircom's backbone network it is all under magnets domain, from the CPS at the Customer's premises to the moment it reaches the "internet".

Really? When did Magnet get backbone lines out of the country? I was sure it was fibre from here to the exchange and then onto a backbone eircom line out to the UK.
Still a damn sight better than being on the eircom local loop though, especially when you're stuck on the smaller exchanges...

Hope this clears things out although it will probably confuse things even more:)

Naw, landline internet architectures are straightforward compared to mobile infrastructures, especially the pre-LTE ones

Bohrio

Sparks wrote: »

Really? When did Magnet get backbone lines out of the country? I was sure it was fibre from here to the exchange and then onto a backbone eircom line out to the UK.
Still a damn sight better than being on the eircom local loop though, especially when you're stuck on the smaller exchanges...

Glad I am not boring you... I tend to write a lot... lol

I know this is not the right forum but if you dont mind I will explain.

The way it works is as follows. Every ISP (or a certain size such as Eircom, Vodafone, BT, etc) will have their own (rented) international circuits connecting to their own core network (normally to a border router).

An ISP will use several companies to provide them with international interconnects, some examples are cogent, lynx. Sometimes google will provide ISPS with their own GigEs to be used for things such as youtube, etc). International bandwidth is very expensive, ISP can use services such as Akamai (similar to a cache server) to save international traffic.

Most of the above links are cheap or "free". ISPs will have no option than to pay other providers to gain "extra" bandwidth. The whole thing is a bit more complicated than this but the main idea is more or less like this.

This is a small diagram of how some of the above services look like (very simplified diagram that I just made for explanation purposes)



This diagram represent a Bitstream service (eircom wholesale)




This is a basic FTTH diagram



Smaller ISPs will hire other bigger ISPs to "handle" their internet traffic, for example, IFA will use BT to do so (or used to), some ISPs will use other ISP to handle the authentication for them, etc.

Naw, landline internet architectures are straightforward compared to mobile infrastructures, especially the pre-LTE ones

Tell me about it, the PS network can get quite complicated, especially since terminals are no longer static but mobile, so now on a PDP you need to worry about things that you didnt have to on fixed lines (mobility management), SGSN, GGSN etc..

And that's on the core network side, the radio side is complicated as well, starting from the authentication process, channel assignment, etc..

LTE looks interesting to me, can wait for them to start using VoLTE as well as at the moment they are falling back to CS to do voice.


Enough Telco talk though.. I could go on all night

Bohrio

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I was going to write a sarcastic response but I decided against it.

The only way you could get a average ping of 1ms to a British IP, is if you were right beside the same datacenter that hosts bbc.co.uk, with the same ISP they use. And even then its unlikely due to the inherent latency that their and your router would add, the interfaces and conversions and the processing time to respond to the actual ping.

I'm also going to add, that when you say FTTH you mean Eircom. In terms of networking and Ireland, Eircom are not the bastion of rock solid connectivity in any normal circumstance.

Propagation alone would have you at 2.46ms to London from Dublin(where BBC.co.uk is based).

sorry my bad I meant 12 ms and 11 ms... I had to read your mail twice as I though, what is he talking about 2 and 1 ms... then I saw my post... I was gonna use rte.ie as an example but then I changed it to bbc.co.uk...

and as explained no, FTTH is not Eircom but I already mentioned that on the above post so I am not going to elaborate on that... but just to make sure, Eircom's NGA (next generation access using VDSL) is FTTC not FTTH.

dreamers75

Bohrio WINS FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!!!

KillerShamrock

Ok lads enough about net code wa wa wa and the crashes this thread has gone way off topic now. The first post states its not about the technical problems just the game itself and how it annoys you.

Start a wa wa wa netcode wa wa wa (I can't admit I'm terrible at bf4 and my comp/internet sucks) thread if you like. but keep this one for the things in and about game that drive you mad.

Sparks

You know what I hate about locker?
The other players on my team.

• We don't need everyone to capture A and B guys. One of you is fine. The other 30 should really push on to C before... no, never mind, the other guys have it now and that's them given the solid upper hand. Was that 100 points worth it, you goat fiddling idiots?
• Why are you stopping outside C before C's captured? Oh, you think they're in there? Son, yes, they are. That's why you HAVE A GUN! NOW MOVE YOUR ARSE!
• Oh, a corridor. Yeah, that's tricky walking that is, No, don't mind me, I don't mind you blocking my line of fire so we both died instead of just one of us. No, I'm sure the team don't mind losing D because you can't walk a straight line....
• Son, if you see six other players all fall down while great sprays of red stuff go flying about, and the guy on the other team with the machine gun isn't dead at your feet or running away, just don't fupping bother with the paddles, we won't accept the revive and he'll knife you and... yeah, got your tags cos your gun was tucked away there, didn't he? Never mind, that's just E we've lost now.
• Ah, doors. Yes, they're tricky things. No, never mind, most people never figure them out. Yeah, it's a big scary map out there. Yes, that's right, you just lie down there and take a nap, someone will wander past and stop in front of your door soon and you can just shoot him with that 1-mile-range sniper rifle you've got there. Don't worry about the six others with him or the two who've snuck up behind... oh. Never mind, they're just tags, that's okay.
• Oh, the base. Great. Hm. All lining up against the wall where they can't shoot at you, are you? That's great. How are you shooting at them? Oh, we're just waiting are we? Oh, look, round over, we lose, and for that half-hour we gained... 900XP in total counting the 100% boost we had on. In a double XP weekend. Well done, well done...

GAH!

Sparks

Also, latest patch? Not fixing the problems

Noxin

Sparks wrote: »

You know what I hate about locker?
The other players on my team.

• We don't need everyone to capture A and B guys. One of you is fine. The other 30 should really push on to C before... no, never mind, the other guys have it now and that's them given the solid upper hand. Was that 100 points worth it, you goat fiddling idiots?
• Why are you stopping outside C before C's captured? Oh, you think they're in there? Son, yes, they are. That's why you HAVE A GUN! NOW MOVE YOUR ARSE!
• Oh, a corridor. Yeah, that's tricky walking that is, No, don't mind me, I don't mind you blocking my line of fire so we both died instead of just one of us. No, I'm sure the team don't mind losing D because you can't walk a straight line....
• Son, if you see six other players all fall down while great sprays of red stuff go flying about, and the guy on the other team with the machine gun isn't dead at your feet or running away, just don't fupping bother with the paddles, we won't accept the revive and he'll knife you and... yeah, got your tags cos your gun was tucked away there, didn't he? Never mind, that's just E we've lost now.
• Ah, doors. Yes, they're tricky things. No, never mind, most people never figure them out. Yeah, it's a big scary map out there. Yes, that's right, you just lie down there and take a nap, someone will wander past and stop in front of your door soon and you can just shoot him with that 1-mile-range sniper rifle you've got there. Don't worry about the six others with him or the two who've snuck up behind... oh. Never mind, they're just tags, that's okay.
• Oh, the base. Great. Hm. All lining up against the wall where they can't shoot at you, are you? That's great. How are you shooting at them? Oh, we're just waiting are we? Oh, look, round over, we lose, and for that half-hour we gained... 900XP in total counting the 100% boost we had on. In a double XP weekend. Well done, well done...

GAH!

Someone had a bad night in the locker methinks :rolleyes::pac:

I only had my first locker visit last night. Interesting place. I agree the corridor issues.. Found it funny in one that leads outside. Complete carnage that lasted for ages where you end up trapped between players and unable to do anything but die :P

battser

Sparks wrote: »

Also, latest patch? Not fixing the problems

What problems are people getting still cause it's been silky for me the last few days with 0 crashes.

DTA338

Anyone who feels hard done by with BF4, Microshaft are refunding purchases of Premium.

Stone Deaf 4evr

DTA338 wrote: »

Anyone who feels hard done by with BF4, Microshaft are refunding purchases of Premium.

Its nearly at the stage where they should start refunding for the game itself.
I've tried every night for the last week on xbox one and have managed to get into the sum total of 1 game. plus my single player save is gone.

Grumpypants

Locker is the new metro, any idiot can play it but only a hand full can play it properly. I was on a good team last night, ignored C completely and just focussed on the rest won by 300 tickets. we had 3 squads that stuck together and were unstoppable we would meet 4 or 5 guys but they had no hope against 12 of us and if you did get hit we had medics to heal.

Cuddlesworth

Bohrio wrote: »

sorry my bad I meant 12 ms and 11 ms... I had to read your mail twice as I though, what is he talking about 2 and 1 ms... then I saw my post... I was gonna use rte.ie as an example but then I changed it to bbc.co.uk...

and as explained no, FTTH is not Eircom but I already mentioned that on the above post so I am not going to elaborate on that... but just to make sure, Eircom's NGA (next generation access using VDSL) is FTTC not FTTH.

Cool, I wan't aware anybody in Ireland did actual fibre to the home.

Since you have a good high level understanding of service provider networks, can you honestly say that with all the possible points of failure that packet loss and jitter simply does not happen in modern networks? Such as Magnets carrier to England? Especially at peak times, when we game.

Sparks

Noxin wrote: »

Someone had a bad night in the locker methinks :rolleyes::pac:

Just a really bad round. Two of the players got right up my nose because they stood still in the spawn while typing to each other on the chat window debating whether or not the double xp week had ruined the ranking system, while we were all getting killed. And about half the team went sniper and tried camping long corridors, but couldn't actually hit anything. One of the few times I'd have switched sides just to come back and kill the idiots on my side. I mean, if you don't get much free time (look at the posts' timestamp ffs!), and some yahoo wastes it because he can't tell Battlefield from the Battlefield forums... argh!

Normally, though, I like the map. When people remember it's a midrange to CQB map, not a long range sniperfest, that is...

Sparks

battser wrote: »

What problems are people getting still cause it's been silky for me the last few days with 0 crashes.

Rubberbanding, trading kills when the other player was facing away when I initially engage, odd movement quirks, that sort of thing. And for some reason my cloud sync wasn't working as it has before - I kept losing settings for my MP7 and having to redo the loadout in the game (I prefer to do it on the web on a second machine while the games machine is loading the level). And the SUAV controls were all wierd as well, it was like they'd changed which set of controls it was using or something.

Sparks

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Cool, I wan't aware anybody in Ireland did actual fibre to the home.

Yeah, and it's excellent. Low latency, high bandwidth, best service provision I've ever had in Ireland (and I've tried everyone bar UPC at this point).

Bohrio

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Cool, I wan't aware anybody in Ireland did actual fibre to the home.

Since you have a good high level understanding of service provider networks, can you honestly say that with all the possible points of failure that packet loss and jitter simply does not happen in modern networks? Such as Magnets carrier to England? Especially at peak times, when we game.

Of course I can't... packet loss happen all the time, could be caused by noise, congestion, bad connection, etc... Doesnt matter if you have fibre, copper, cable, etc...

Its up to the ISP to make sure their network is kept healthy and congestion free. Some ISP do it better than others

Magnet FTTH service is arguably the best broadband in the country, better than UPC better of course than Eircom (including NGA).

They best thing about FTTH is not the bandwidth but like Sparks has mentioned the low latency.

So at the moment, Magnet FTTH is excellent and it will be up to magnet to keep it this way and make sure there network is up to scratch.

That's it though, no more network chat or we will get in trouble

Cuddlesworth

In fairness, this is a good example of something seriously wrong when he has the UTS-15.

Spear

Bohrio wrote: »

Of course I can't... packet loss happen all the time, could be caused by noise, congestion, bad connection, etc... Doesnt matter if you have fibre, copper, cable, etc...

Its up to the ISP to make sure their network is kept healthy and congestion free. Some ISP do it better than others

Magnet FTTH service is arguably the best broadband in the country, better than UPC better of course than Eircom (including NGA).

They best thing about FTTH is not the bandwidth but like Sparks has mentioned the low latency.

So at the moment, Magnet FTTH is excellent and it will be up to magnet to keep it this way and make sure there network is up to scratch.

That's it though, no more network chat or we will get in trouble

This has diverged too far away from Battlefield at this point, so let's keep it back on topic.

Sparks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRjTMwSY0qs

Just pointing out that "netcode" is not the only problem - here the hit detection and rendering go out of sync because of a local load run on the client PC.

jonski

Sparks wrote: »

Just pointing out that "netcode" is not the only problem - here the hit detection and rendering go out of sync because of a local load run on the client PC.

Moral of the story , spray and pray ftw !