Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

L1011

alwald wrote: »

any link please? I couldn't find this info anywhere.

Its minimum pricing, not alcohol duty. This means the state only gets the VAT value of the increase.

Minimum pricing legislation has been deemed illegal by the EU before including, oh, here - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0304/128351-cigarettes/ http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-10-21_en.htm

Increasing duty would be allowed, but they don't want to do that as with this they can deflect blame and insist they're not raising revenues from it.

That wine isn't being impacted much compared to anything else, while directly a function of its alcohol content, is because FG voters are far more likely to be in the middle class, mid 20s to middle age contingent that consume lots of (and often actually seriously abuse) wine. The mummies who knock back a bottle of prosecco a night and wear 'hilarious' jumpers stating same are problem drinkers just as much as someone drinking 3L bottles of Linden Village in the park is but its not politically sensible to target your own voters.

Frynge

This is where I posted it before but the link has died so I will try get another one.

Frynge wrote: »

Year on year decrease in alcohol consumption in Ireland since 2001.

I'll try and get a link.

Decrease in Ireland's alcohol consumption


The figures are from the revenue commissioners who are not known to skew figures so as to suit their agenda.

cruhoortwunk

Frynge wrote: »

This is where I posted it before but the link has died so I will try get another one.

http://alcoholireland.ie/home_news/how-much-are-we-really-drinking/

Frynge

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

http://alcoholireland.ie/home_news/how-much-are-we-really-drinking/

I did come across that but i dont like quoting from sites with an obviouse agenda.

Ageyev

One odd thing I heard Varadkar say was that he/they want to go after kids drinking high alcohol content spirits. Then he says that 40%ABV is high but that's pretty standard for spirits. Anything higher than 40% and you're getting into specialist territory like Redbreast or Connemara cask strength which comes with a much much higher price tag due to the tax as well as it being marketed as a premium product. Who the hell is necking 50-90 quid bottles of booze?

Tazz T

This just reeks of pacifying the Vintners and vested interests.

This was tried in Finland and failed so badly (due to job losses, hooch making and an additional strain on the health system) that they reversed it very quickly. The government lost millions of excise revenues.

And as mentioned earlier, it's been deemed illegal by the EU. Weird how when they tell us we have to implement taxes, we have to, but when they say we can't, we still think we can. Varadkar has lost the plot here.

If they haven't lost the upcoming election already, this is the last straw that fell out of the cocktail glass.

L1011

Tazz T wrote: »

Weird how when they tell us we have to implement taxes, we have to, but when they say we can't, we still think we can. Varadkar has lost the plot here.

Its not even tax!

Tax would be legal, and irritating but at least would benefit the state

This pushes cash in to the hands of retailers and indirectly publicans by trying to push people back to pubs. The state is likely to lose money due to bootlegging and people moving to homebrew rather than make a cent off the extra VAT on the higher prices.

Biffo The Bare

Varadkar's vintner chums and Fine Gael's publican extended family members will be rubbing their hands with glee on this announcement.
Once he realises his "Sex On The Beach" has gone up by €2 Euro, he might change his mind.
(SOTB is an alcoholic drink BTW and I could have said Bloody Mary or Pina Colada. I drink Baileys myself, Woohoo. And I don't infer anything by the choice of drink I used in the joke.)

brick tamland

How confident are folks the thus won't get through the European Court? Any links to the ongoing Scottish case? Not familiar at all with it

L1011

brick tamland wrote: »

How confident are folks the thus won't get through the European Court? Any links to the ongoing Scottish case? Not familiar at all with it

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-34133269 Sturgeon is deluded in "welcoming" it as it is impossible to prove the requirements that have been set down.

Previous minimum pricing attempts (tobacco) have been deemed illegal also.

castle2012

Its simple all. There's an election coming up . Don't vote finegael and labour and that will sort that out . Different government different ideas

alwald

castle2012 wrote: »

Its simple all. There's an election coming up . Don't vote finegael and labour and that will sort that out . Different government different ideas

I will be shocked if they are reelected, having said that, whichever party will takeover will have its flaws and will be filled with corruption, its standard nowadays.

quadrifoglio verde

L1011 wrote: »

This isn't even a tax - the extra money goes to the supplier/distributor/retailer, not the state.

And that's pretty much why its illegal and won't happen. Its delusional grandstanding to be "seen doing something", nothing else.

Is it?
I know with pharmacies, they can't wave the 2.50 levy (a tax) or the patient contribution for items over the reimbursable price and are legally obliged to collect it
I also understand that they aren't allowed pay the difference themselves


On a more booze related issue, while these rules most likely affect me as I like the finer things in life it still annoys me.
We have one of the highest alcohol prices in Europe, yet the countries with much lower prices (for example France) are less likely to get absolutely ****faced in public

This simply isn't going to make any difference

ThisRegard

alwald wrote: »

Fine Gael/Labour checklist:
Household tax: check
Water tax: Check
Alcohol tax: Check
Oxygen tax: Proposed for 2017

Just to be pedantic, the first 2 measures I think were set rolling by the prior government, and minimum pricing is not a tax (technically neither is water charges)

castle2012 wrote: »

Its simple all. There's an election coming up . Don't vote finegael and labour and that will sort that out . Different government different ideas

Different government will still most likely implement this. FF are more the vinters friend than anyone else.

castle2012

Total nanny state . The first party to say they will trash this proposal ill vote for .

Hotblack Desiato

Anyone who thinks there is cheap alcohol in Ireland is deluded in the extreme.

wirelessdude01

When is this coming into effect?

BeerNut

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

When is this coming into effect?

BeerNut wrote: »

It may never. There's a long way to go before this becomes law.

^^^ Smart guy. Talks sense.

topmanamillion

It's a cop out by Leo "I want to be Taoiseach" Varadkar, he had said first that he was going to ban alcohol advertising similar to France.
But he sat down with a few brewers and the GAA and was told the revenue from alcohol sponsorship was vital so he backed down.
Until their influence is taken out of sport (hugely influencing young people) they can charge what they want, people will still buy it/brew their own or go the to black market for it.
As for pubs complaining their business is hit, there's too many of them anyway. Most small villages may not even have a shop or post office but they'll have 2 or 3 pubs, it's not viable. Society has changed in the 50-100 years since the local was the focal point of the community. Their business model is flawed and there's an over saturation for the current market. That's why pubs are closing.

ThisRegard

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Anyone who thinks there is cheap alcohol in Ireland is deluded in the extreme.

I bought a box of Heineken which worked out at €1 a bottle a few weeks ago. Look at what Lidl and Aldi sell. There is lots of cheap alcohol out there. You're deluded if you think there's none.

Hotblack Desiato

€1 for 330ml of 4% mass market swill is expensive.

dslamjack

Its a fait accompli already,the inland decency have struck,just like the smoking ban ,there is no defense.
As I said earlier ,the do gooders that brought about the smoking ban were all ways going to start on the drink,and when they have finished and made drinking as anti social as smoking,they will start on the obese good time.
You cannot win any argument with them on health grounds,just like the smoking ban,and like it or not over the next few years the drinker will be demonized and vilified just like the smoker.
O you will be given all the''help'' and ''advice'' you need,then will come the ''help'' from your employer,you won't be able to look side way's for all the ''help'',because we're such a caring society.
<Snip>
Its pretty much down hill from here,in no time the country will be as boring as a wet monday night in Oslo and as exciting as watching endless repeats of Oireachtas Tv.
Ye all better have very unhealthy Christmas,the way things are going,you'd be better off getting banged up next Christmas,at least ye'll be able to get a drink in the Joy,even if the rest of the country can't.

syklops

ThisRegard wrote: »

I bought a box of Heineken which worked out at €1 a bottle a few weeks ago. Look at what Lidl and Aldi sell. There is lots of cheap alcohol out there. You're deluded if you think there's none.

If you think a 330ml bottle of Heineken for 1 euro is cheap, then, no offence you are part of the problem. Aldi have wine for 5 euros. Its very drinkable. Its no Nom Plateau Chatteau du Plom but its acceptable. In Germany, a litre of similar stuff is about 2 euro. In the Czech Republic its 1 euro. The cheapest in Ireland currently is 5, and Leo wants to make it 8 or 9.

I used to buy 10 bottles of Czech beer for less than 4 euros. Wages are low in the Czech republic but they arent a quarter. Dole is 300 a month and they dont have other allowances like rent support. Its E300, now go survive.

I wrote extenively on the AH thread. The black-market for booze will sky rocket. And, there will be deaths as a result. Guaranteed. Minister for health is going to kill more people, than if he had done feck all.

L1011

castle2012 wrote: »

Its simple all. There's an election coming up . Don't vote finegael and labour and that will sort that out . Different government different ideas

FF would pass this in a heartbeat, party of purpose publicans

ThisRegard

dslamjack wrote: »

As I said earlier ,the do gooders that brought about the smoking ban were all ways going to start on the drink,.

It's not even the same government Ffs. And the smoking ban has been one of the best measures any government has brought in. You're not banned from smoking, just banned from doing so where it affects others.

OldMrBrennan83

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ThisRegard

syklops wrote: »

If you think a 330ml bottle of Heineken for 1 euro is cheap, then, no offence you are part of the problem. Aldi have wine for 5 euros. Its very drinkable. Its no Nom Plateau Chatteau du Plom but its acceptable. In Germany, a litre of similar stuff is about 2 euro. In the Czech Republic its 1 euro. The cheapest in Ireland currently is 5, and Leo wants to make it 8 or 9.

I used to buy 10 bottles of Czech beer for less than 4 euros. Wages are low in the Czech republic but they arent a quarter. Dole is 300 a month and they dont have other allowances like rent support. Its E300, now go survive.

I wrote extenively on the AH thread. The black-market for booze will sky rocket. And, there will be deaths as a result. Guaranteed. Minister for health is going to kill more people, than if he had done feck all.

What problem exactly am I part of? If you want to start making silly comparisons with eastern European country's factor in salaries and welfare rates from there and don't just brush them off like you did. It's all relative. There's no two ways about it, €1 a bottle/can is cheap.


The rest of your post about people dying all over the place is the usual hysteric nonsense whenever a measure we don't like is introduced.

ThisRegard

Patww79 wrote: »

Don't solve a problem, tax a problem.

Same thing with everything.

It's not a tax.


Sorry for the multiple posts, on mobile.

OldMrBrennan83

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oblivious

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well I suppose that you could argue that tax revenue could be put to some good rather than going to the retailer