Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

Timistry

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1022/482077-public-health-alcohol-bill/

Multiple excise increases in the last few Budgets and now this... Ireland is already one of the most expensive countries in Europe for alcohol. Like many, I can appreciate the negative impacts that it has on society but these nanny state measures just will not work

shedweller

Aye. Watch the queues going to Newry now!

Markcheese

Minimum pricing on alcohol won't directly effect the price of a drink in the pub,it shouldn't effect craft beers,premium beers or an average bottle of wine...
It should help stop bellow cost selling/ discounting and stupidly cheap special offers on beer that the supermarkets started(and would love to stop) and the off licenses were forced to copy... Some one always pays for below cost selling (not that the government would care if it wasn't for the anti-social behaviour issue)

syklops

shedweller wrote: »

Aye. Watch the queues going to Newry now!

There was an ad for Asda during Downton Abbey on Sunday night. Famous Grouse for 11 pounds. 11GBP is about 13EUR, however Grouse is about 20 euro in most major Irish chains.

I can definitely see beer runs to Newry in my future.

Saruman

Markcheese wrote: »

Minimum pricing on alcohol won't directly effect the price of a drink in the pub,it shouldn't effect craft beers,premium beers or an average bottle of wine...
It should help stop bellow cost selling/ discounting and stupidly cheap special offers on beer that the supermarkets started(and would love to stop) and the off licenses were forced to copy... Some one always pays for below cost selling (not that the government would care if it wasn't for the anti-social behaviour issue)

We already had this and some muppets took it away. :rolleyes:

Gloomtastic!

Where does the additional money raised go - to the brewer/distiller, the retailer or the government?

Michael Noonan mentioned a couple of weeks ago that no one complained when they increased wine by €1 a bottle in last year's budget. Another tax by another name me thinks.

My €4 wine in Aldi, now €5 and heading for €7. F@ck the lot of them!

Sam Kade

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Where does the additional money raised go - to the brewer/distiller, the retailer or the government?

Michael Noonan mentioned a couple of weeks ago that no one complained when they increased wine by €1 a bottle in last year's budget. Another tax by another name me thinks.

My €4 wine in Aldi, now €5 and heading for €7. F@ck the lot of them!

You can make your own wine from wild berries, maybe the next step.
So Noonan thinks that if no one complains about tax increases it means you can add more tax :mad:

Gloomtastic!

Sam Kade wrote: »

You can make your own wine from wild berries, maybe the next step.
So Noonan thinks that if no one complains about tax increases it means you can add more tax :mad:

Or borrow a van, head across the channel and buy some decent French vino for €2.00

BeerNut

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Where does the additional money raised go - to the brewer/distiller, the retailer or the government?

All three, I'd say. The producer knows the retailer has to sell at a minimum price so might raise the wholesale price to get a cut of it; the retailer is the one setting the price, so obviously they'll take a cut; and higher price means extra VAT so the government's take will be higher, though the government claims it's doing it to reduce sales, and therefore VAT.

syklops

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Where does the additional money raised go - to the brewer/distiller, the retailer or the government?

Michael Noonan mentioned a couple of weeks ago that no one complained when they increased wine by €1 a bottle in last year's budget. Another tax by another name me thinks.

My €4 wine in Aldi, now €5 and heading for €7. F@ck the lot of them!

I've not heard anything of the money being ring-fenced, which basically means it will get swallowed by the black pit that is the expenses. It will go to pay for medical cards for seniors who are well able to pay for it themselves.

syklops

Sam Kade wrote: »

You can make your own wine from wild berries, maybe the next step.
So Noonan thinks that if no one complains about tax increases it means you can add more tax :mad:

Making your own wine is a pain in the ass. My sister is a brewer and she enjoys the process, but if you are mainly interested in the result, its a pain in the ass. Moreso when a batch goes wrong and you are left with 24 bottles of undrinkable pee. And tbh, you shouldnt have to resort to such measures.

You can buy from french vinyards and have them delivered to Ireland or as another poster suggests borrow a van and stock up your self. I made a trip over a few months back and it was very straight forward, and quite a pleasant couple of days. Tell the missus you are bringing her on a mini-break to France. Word of advice: avoid Paris. If you think Ireland is bad for sign-age try navigating around Paris.

rubadub

Markcheese wrote: »

It should help stop bellow cost selling/ discounting and stupidly cheap special offers on beer that the supermarkets started(and would love to stop) and the off licenses were forced to copy.

Have you seen any evidence of below cost selling that you can link to? I have asked this many times in many threads and got nothing.

In the UK a year or so ago they investigated the impact of a ban on below cost selling. Turned out only 3-4 non mainstream products were being sold below cost. They would have a similar market to ours. They scrapped the idea and of course the publicans said nothing.

What you have is shouting from vitners that below cost selling goes on, but they never show evidence. Some idiot publicans are paying stupid amounts for beer at wholesale and so presume the supermarkets must be selling below cost since they pay more. This is not particular to publicans, I know a few guys in certain trades who stupidly believe the wholesale cost is ALWAYS less than retail could ever be.

Some publicans post here, in many threads I have pointed out that my local centra often has 20 heineken for €15, and that a centra is not a place people do a full shop in, so very unlikely to be employing a below cost marketing strategy. I see most people carting out beer with nothing else. No publicans or people in the trade ever respond to this for course.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Where does the additional money raised go - to the brewer/distiller, the retailer or the government?(

There is no talk of the government getting it. It will be an odd situation. As BeerNut said it could be wholesalers jacking up prices.

It is weird as it might just phase out cheapo beers. If everything stayed the same it would be like going into an offie for 4 cans and having a tenner and them having no change and so being forced to spend it, so instead of going to get 4 cheap €1 cans most would be more inclined to go for premium bottles at €2.50. (well most might get 10 cans but you get my point). In this way it should be very good for craft beers.

A min price on chocolate bars would see people turning to lindt and butlers bars instead of cheapo ones.

syklops

Rubadub wrote:

Have you seen any evidence of below cost selling that you can link to? I have asked this many times in many threads and got nothing.

Yeah same here. In the AH thread there was a lot of talk of "Cheap alcohol". Where is this legendary cheap alcohol sold? Why can I never find any.

When i was living in the Czech Republic, there was a shop next to me called "Kvalitni Pivni" or quality drinks. It was basically a booze boutique. The place to go for single malts and cognac. A 700ml bottle of Jameson was 309CZK which is 12 euros. The same bottle costs about 27 in an Irish offie and on a good day 22 in Tesco.

Gloomtastic!

Just been down the offie and checked with the guy behind the counter. The majority of the extra money added to the price of a bottle of wine will go to the retailer and the govt. will get the extra VAT as well.

GLaDOS

If this had come in when I was 18 I would have been devastated :pac:

The cynic in me would assume this measure is to appease the vintners/more revenue from VAT.

rubadub

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The cynic in me would assume this measure is to appease the vintners/more revenue from VAT.

It also should keep the off licence owners happy enough. They might see a drop in sales numbers but will probably get more profit overall. This is why they have probably been quiet enough. Its a stupid situation to be having the huge extra revenues going into peoples pockets like this.

Imagine all the other head shops who sell other legal recreational drugs were told they must sell party pills at €20 a pop to get people to cut down a bit, and the owners just pocket the extra profits.

I wonder what they will do to compete with other off licences, might have free snacks or something, or some loyalty card scheme if there are loopholes left in it.

the beer revolu

syklops wrote: »

Where is this legendary cheap alcohol sold? Why can I never find any.

Off licence alcohol is cheaper now than it was twenty years ago. Actually cheaper in terms of money - if you were to take inflation into account, it would be waaaaay cheaper than 20 years ago.

On your Czech story: what is the minimum wage there compared to here?
edit: I can answer that the min wage here is approx 4.3 times the Czech Rep. min wage.

rubadub

the beer revolu wrote: »

Off licence alcohol is cheaper now than it was twenty years ago.

True, cheapest cans were £1, €1.27. In another thread someone was saying the duty on beer has not really gone up since 1994.

BUT the fact is we still have one of the highest excise duty rates here. So instead of saying its much cheaper now, you could turn it around and say we were being totally screwed 20 years ago.

Some heineken drinkers I know think its amazing that they can get bottles for 75cent which were typically £1.19 or €1.50 20 years ago, when instead they should be amazed at how they were being totally raped by heineken.

People do not appreciate that drink in offies has gone down in price, and so keep thinking the pubs are screwing you. Some are of course, and some make zero effort to source a good price and just pass on what they consider reasonable margins.

The guinness index shows the ratio of the price of a pint to the avg industrial wage
http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

syklops

the beer revolu wrote: »

Off licence alcohol is cheaper now than it was twenty years ago. Actually cheaper in terms of money - if you were to take inflation into account, it would be waaaaay cheaper than 20 years ago.

On your Czech story: what is the minimum wage there compared to here?
edit: I can answer that the min wage here is approx 4.3 times the Czech Rep. min wage.

Yes the cost of things are cheaper in the Czech republic, a beer in a pub is about a euro. But I used Jameson for the example because it is something that is made and bottled here in Ireland. That same bottle has to be loaded into trucks and driven 1000 miles away but is ~14 euros cheaper over there? Madness Joe.

Geuze

The reason Irish whiskey is dearer here than 1000km away is mainly due to our excise duty.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/excise/duties/excise-duty-rates.html

It's 42.57 per litre of alcohol in the spirits.

I'm not sure is that pre or post Budget 2014.

That means 17.03 per litre of 40% spirit.

Or 11.92 per 70cl bottle.

Geuze

rubadub wrote: »

True, cheapest cans were £1, €1.27. In another thread someone was saying the duty on beer has not really gone up since 1994.

Revenue Excise report:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/2011/excise.pdf

Beer, per hectolitre, per percent alcohol:

2008 = 19.87
2009 = 19.87
2010 = 15.71
2011 = 15.71


Yes, true, beer excise duty was flat for many years.

2001 to 2009 = 47 cent per pint
2010-2011 = 37 cent per pint

syklops

The reason Irish whiskey is dearer here than 1000km away is mainly due to our excise duty.

I don't know what to say.

BuilderPlumber

Of course, as many said already, this is all about appeasing the vintners and getting revenue up. Like ALL this dodgy healthocracy we have been seeing, most of the alcohol is bad for your health stuff is grounded on poor research and spurious correlations as is the tea, sugar, coffee, etc.

ALL is designed as an excuse to increase the price and thus revenue. With alcohol, the prices in supermarkets is a serious threat to pubs whose price has to be larger because of insurance on premises, etc. Cynical laws that all do damage to business. I'm glad at least the dropping alcohol sponsorship for sports (and music events and other festivals) was dropped.

BuilderPlumber

syklops wrote: »

Yes the cost of things are cheaper in the Czech republic, a beer in a pub is about a euro. But I used Jameson for the example because it is something that is made and bottled here in Ireland. That same bottle has to be loaded into trucks and driven 1000 miles away but is ~14 euros cheaper over there? Madness Joe.

Yes, I've been to the Czech Republic and found that the beer is not only a lot cheaper but a lot nicer too. While I never drank or looked for Irish drinks like Jameson there (I prefer to sample Czech drinks), it is not hard to believe what you said. Typical.

listermint

I cant help but think this is the VFI lobby group setting up for the entrance of Wetherspoons to the Irish market. They have recently bought / made some enquiries into several premises in Dublin. Id imagine that has put the sh*ts up the multi pub chain owners in the capital. Many of whom are former or know former or current TDs. Fingers in the pie so to speak. I can see this supposed ban been extended into pub premises also if that is not already the case.
They will fight wetherspoons tooth and nail. Bloody cartel the VFI are an utter disgrace the money they can make off soft drinks and cordial with their pretence of providing a service. Tough enough to find a well run establishment as it is.

which has everything to do with this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057028788


The VFI have come out today hailing this decision and giving the government plaudits opening it will be implemented as soon as possible by passing any studies or commitees.

BeerNut

It won't affect Wetherspoon, or any other pubs. The VFI and NOffLA like it because it's an attack on supermarkets, whom they perceive as their enemy.

listermint

BeerNut wrote: »

It won't affect Wetherspoon, or any other pubs. The VFI and NOffLA like it because it's an attack on supermarkets, whom they perceive as their enemy.

As i said is this a preliminary shot across the bow with some future lobbying preventing wetherspoon style pubs opening?

Wouldnt really put it past them

BeerNut

listermint wrote: »

is this a preliminary shot across the bow with some future lobbying preventing wetherspoon style pubs opening?

No, it isn't. It was being planned long before Wetherspoon announced they would be opening in Ireland, and this has no effect on any pubs.

Technocentral

Great idea, only piss will be affected.

syklops

Technocentral wrote: »

Great idea, only piss will be affected.

You again.

BeerNut

Technocentral wrote: »

Great idea, only piss will be affected.

First they came for the cheap piss and I did not speak up because I don't drink cheap piss.

This is the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill. The title follows the pattern of the Public Health (Tobacco) Act 2002 which included the smoking ban and a host of other restrictions. The Department of Health said yesterday "this is a landmark day. It is the first time alcohol misuse has been addressed as a public health issue", so this represents a major shift in government policy regarding alcohol: it is no longer a substance which merely has to be controlled; it is a danger to public health, and the people who use it must be treated the same way as smokers.

BuilderPlumber

BeerNut wrote: »

First they came for the cheap piss and I did not speak up because I don't drink cheap piss.

This is the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill. The title follows the pattern of the Public Health (Tobacco) Act 2002 which included the smoking ban and a host of other restrictions. The Department of Health said yesterday "this is a landmark day. It is the first time alcohol misuse has been addressed as a public health issue", so this represents a major shift in government policy regarding alcohol: it is no longer a substance which merely has to be controlled; it is a danger to public health, and the people who use it must be treated the same way as smokers.

Yes, this is very true. I said before that healthocracy is the Western answer to Talibanistic religion. Like the Taliban and other regimes like Saudi Arabia use their poor interpretations of the Koran's teachings to ban alcohol, restrict women and equate pork with Satan, our healthocrats use spuriously correlated research to justify restrictions that allow for tax increases and controlling behaviour that is no different to our supposedly backward Middle Eastern friends.

The smoking ban was a major blow to social freedom in Ireland and although I am not a smoker and do not miss smoky environments, the way it was implemented was exactly like the Taliban. Fags were the obvious choice but now the list is endless of what is targeted: alcohol (other than red wine I presume which is supposed to be GOOD for you!!), sugar, sugary drinks, fast food, fried food, fizzy drinks, red meat, etc, etc. Next, they'll tell us vegetables are bad for us!!!!! It is truly sickening brainwashing. Just equate a food with cancer (even if there is no link or spurious research based link) will be enough to stop 2/3rds of people from eating it!!

reprazant

Holy hyperbole Batman!

Technocentral

syklops wrote: »

You again.

Et tu, Brute?

Blisterman

Anyone who thinks this will only affect the cheapest alcohol is misguided. Think about it. Companies use price as a way of differentiating between what's perceived as low quality and high quality.

You put in minimum pricing, so that for example, a bottle of Tesco value Whiskey costs the same as Jameson does now, are Tesco going to sell their value Whiskey and Jameson at the same price?

No they're going to knock every price tier upwards, to maintain the distinction of different bands of quality.

rubadub

Blisterman wrote: »

No they're going to knock every price tier upwards, to maintain the distinction of different bands of quality.

It would be interesting to see what happens, if tesco did increase them then another shop can undercut them and still get the same profit they were used to. So unless they all copy each other it won't happen. Of course the manufacturers themselves could just up the wholesale price.

I can see them just dropping the cheapest of the cheap altogether, I think tesco have 3 vodkas, value, normal, finest, so might just drop the value one.

BMJD

still though, I can't wait for the streets to be clean and safe again

goose2005

BeerNut wrote: »

First they came for the cheap piss and I did not speak up because I don't drink cheap piss.

This is the Public Health (Alcohol) Bill. The title follows the pattern of the Public Health (Tobacco) Act 2002 which included the smoking ban and a host of other restrictions. The Department of Health said yesterday "this is a landmark day. It is the first time alcohol misuse has been addressed as a public health issue", so this represents a major shift in government policy regarding alcohol: it is no longer a substance which merely has to be controlled; it is a danger to public health, and the people who use it must be treated the same way as smokers.

I'm sure as we speak someone is drafting the Public Health (Red Meat) Bil and the Public Health (Sugar) Bill.

cruhoortwunk

Will the minimum pricing affect craft beers? Eg. if cans of píss are increased to €1.80 each, how will it affect a 330ml bottle of craft ale?

BaZmO*

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Will the minimum pricing affect craft beers? Eg. if cans of píss are increased to €1.80 each, how will it affect a 330ml bottle of craft ale?

No. It's a minimum price increase, so if what you're buying is above the threshold it won't be affected. Most craft beers are above the threshold.

gandalf

BaZmO* wrote: »

No. It's a minimum price increase, so if what you're buying is above the threshold it won't be affected. Most craft beers are above the threshold.

I think peoples fear is that the retailers will be tempted to gouge because of the minimum price and given our experience in this country then I think this is a distinct possibility.

BaZmO*

gandalf wrote: »

I think peoples fear is that the retailers will be tempted to gouge because of the minimum price and given our experience in this country then I think this is a distinct possibility.

And I'd say that fear is not without reason, but that's when consumers need to vote with their feet if they see that happening. However, this measure is supposed to stop big supermarkets from selling loss leaders so I don't see how it'd be in their interest (or in the interest of independent off licences) to start increasing their prices when the competition's prices have been brought closer to theirs.

rubadub

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Will the minimum pricing affect craft beers? Eg. if cans of píss are increased to €1.80 each, how will it affect a 330ml bottle of craft ale?

This poster predicted an increase.

Blisterman wrote: »

Anyone who thinks this will only affect the cheapest alcohol is misguided. Think about it. Companies use price as a way of differentiating between what's perceived as low quality and high quality.

You put in minimum pricing, so that for example, a bottle of Tesco value Whiskey costs the same as Jameson does now, are Tesco going to sell their value Whiskey and Jameson at the same price?

No they're going to knock every price tier upwards, to maintain the distinction of different bands of quality.

I am not sure what to expect, I predict weird goings on. If it is €2.20 a can I expect there will be nobody stocking cheapo beers, like lidl would not have their cheapest of the cheap anymore, as I expect there would be no demand.

This is unfair on cheap beer producers. I was saying in another thread if they had a minimum price on cars of €100,000 it would be a disaster for companies geared up for producing low cost cars, as who would buy a cheapo car if a high end BMW was the same, or high end car with low running costs.

Higher price beers may drop in price, a beer at €2.60 will still be bought by its previous loyal fan base, but others might switch to it or try it. e.g. if budvar is €2.60 now it might drop in price since I expect many would turn to it and so it may get increases in sales. I pick budvar as I reckon most people drinking cheaper lagers would prefer it to craft beers which may have quite a different taste.

Personally I usually drink any old muck at home, but in pubs go for better ones. My reasoning is that I am not that fussy and do not not value 1 beer as being worth 2.6 times the price of another (as it is in offlicences). -However in the pub it is usually only a small % more or few cent for a decent beer over the run of the mill piss they sell. So if I am forced to pay a minimum of €2.20 I will no longer drink the (previously) cheaper ones, it will only be maybe 30cent more for a decent one.

I expect some offies might introduce loophole freebies or something.

Offies in remote areas could clean up if they wanted, just remain stocking cheapo beers and actually take the expensive ones off the shelf, leaving people with no choice unless they want to travel elsewhere. So they would be creaming in the extra profit. -Remember this suggestion is NOT an increase in excise, the only extra the government will seemingly get is the VAT.

So if a can is currently €1, this is a ex-vat selling price of 81cent, and vat of 19cent, and the government get excise.

If the can goes to €2.20, the ex-vat selling price is €1.79 and vat of 41cent, excise is the same. So the government get 22cent more, while the offie get 98cent more

BaZmO* wrote: »

However, this measure is supposed to stop big supermarkets from selling loss leaders

I have seen no evidence of the widespread below cost selling that publicans claim goes on. In the uk they did investigate and found only 3-5 beers being sold below cost in several supermarkets. and these were obscure non-mainstream beers. Its in the deceitful publicans interest to have the gullible public believe it is rife, so they get sympathy. Whenever the issue comes up I point to the centra near me which had 20x330ml heineken for €15 as a very common offer, they do not fit the model of below cost selling which is intended to recoup losses when people do their weekly shop at the same time.

Padraig Mor

gandalf wrote: »

I think peoples fear is that the retailers will be tempted to gouge because of the minimum price and given our experience in this country then I think this is a distinct possibility.

There's been enough discussion on this page to make clear that our craft producers (GBB etc) are more than happy to apply 'premium' pricing, whatever the rights and wrongs of that may be. I don't think it's just the retailers we need to be worried about.

BaZmO* wrote: »

. However, this measure is supposed to stop big supermarkets from selling loss leaders so I don't see how it'd be in their interest (or in the interest of independent off licences) to start increasing their prices when the competition's prices have been brought closer to theirs.

My understanding is that, despite popular perception, supermarkets etc very rarely sell alcohol below cost and that the hit is taken by the distributor - hence the introduction (on behalf of the vintners) of minimum alcohol pricing, rather than a ban on below cost selling.

BeerNut

A bit of statistical analysis here shows that the government's proposed 2020 target will be reached anyway, without any of these new restrictions.

Geuze

rubadub wrote: »

True, cheapest cans were £1, €1.27. In another thread someone was saying the duty on beer has not really gone up since 1994.

BUT the fact is we still have one of the highest excise duty rates here. So instead of saying its much cheaper now, you could turn it around and say we were being totally screwed 20 years ago.

See table EX4 here:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/statistical/2012/excise.pdf

YES, excise flat for several years 2002-2009, then CUT by 10 c per pint, then raised later.

listermint

This whole notion just looks like its going to be poor for consumers across the board. As others have stated I can see the 'rising tide lifts all boats' mentality. This is Ireland afterall , we will and do be taken for a ride.

Im thoroughly against this notion tbh, i think its ill conceived and has a very narrow objective.

odyssey06

If the theory that higher alcohol = less consumption was true, we wouldn't need minimum alcohol pricing as we already have one of the highest prices for alcohol in EU combined with one of the highest consumption rates.

There's already a court case at EU level which could block this.

Failing that, I think the North\Dept of Finance will come to the rescue here as the loss of revenue if prices in North are much less than here will be significant. And I can't see the North signing up to a minimum alcohol pricing scheme that matches the 90c+ being talked about here.

Markcheese

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Will the minimum pricing affect craft beers? Eg. if cans of píss are increased to €1.80 each, how will it affect a 330ml bottle of craft ale?

Not directly ! But if the mass market stuff is now making the off licence and distributors and breweries handy money they'll be less inclined to stock or push the good stuff .... Although all the really cheap beer offers were for cases of 15 or 20 .

gandalf

BaZmO* wrote: »

And I'd say that fear is not without reason, but that's when consumers need to vote with their feet if they see that happening. However, this measure is supposed to stop big supermarkets from selling loss leaders so I don't see how it'd be in their interest (or in the interest of independent off licences) to start increasing their prices when the competition's prices have been brought closer to theirs.

Well tbh I am not effected as I don't drink entry level products any more. I am a Whiskey drinker and I hope this isn't used to up the price of the products that I do purchase here. Given all the duty increases over the last few years my drink of choice is already too expensive and I would be really pissed off if this is used as an excuse to try to gouge more profits.

Because me and my family go to France at least twice a year I don't buy wine here any more. Why would I spend €7 on a wine that in France would cost €2 - €3. For €5 - €7 I can buy a wine that would cost at least €15 here.

I understand why they are trying to do this, we as a nation have a problem with drink but just using price to try and change our relationship with alcohol is wrong. There needs to be an attempt to change the way our younger people socialise. They need to change the focus on drink and getting drunk being the reason you go out.

I can see the shops in Newry having a bumper year once this is passed.

listermint

gandalf wrote: »

Well tbh I am not effected as I don't drink entry level products any more. I am a Whiskey drinker and I hope this isn't used to up the price of the products that I do purchase here. Given all the duty increases over the last few years my drink of choice is already too expensive and I would be really pissed off if this is used as an excuse to try to gouge more profits.

Because me and my family go to France at least twice a year I don't buy wine here any more. Why would I spend €7 on a wine that in France would cost €2 - €3. For €5 - €7 I can buy a wine that would cost at least €15 here.

I understand why they are trying to do this, we as a nation have a problem with drink but just using price to try and change our relationship with alcohol is wrong. There needs to be an attempt to change the way our younger people socialise. They need to change the focus on drink and getting drunk being the reason you go out.

I can see the shops in Newry having a bumper year once this is passed.

On the Contrary alcohol consumption is decreasing in ireland and had done so starkly in the last ten years.

There isn't a whole lot of evidence to promote this vanity project by Leo.

Needs to start dealing with actual issues such a as long term beds being taken up with elderly care. Services being badly used and emphasis on gp care over accident and emergency.

Alcohol pricing is a falicy.