Direct Democracy Ireland: the split?

whippet

I don't know how legit this seems to be but looks like a statement from Mr. Gilroy

http://thepressnet.com/2014/02/03/messagge-from-ben-gilroy-leader-of-direct-democracy/

so he wants to jump on the Brussels gravy train now, wouldn't fancy his chances in that election.

He really like to sound like the victim

spank_inferno

whippet wrote: »

I don't know how legit this seems to be but looks like a statement from Mr. Gilroy

http://thepressnet.com/2014/02/03/messagge-from-ben-gilroy-leader-of-direct-democracy/

so he wants to jump on the Brussels gravy train now, wouldn't fancy his chances in that election.

He really like to sound like the victim

Wow...

He seems a bit of an odd-ball.

Scofflaw

whippet wrote: »

I don't know how legit this seems to be but looks like a statement from Mr. Gilroy

Machholz is usually fairly reliable.

http://thepressnet.com/2014/02/03/messagge-from-ben-gilroy-leader-of-direct-democracy/

so he wants to jump on the Brussels gravy train now, wouldn't fancy his chances in that election.

He really like to sound like the victim

Well, there's a "messagge" there, certainly:

Messagge from Ben Gilroy (leader of Direct Democracy)

Because of the constant untruthful attacks in media in particular RTE and a Labour loving DJ with LMFM and now the court attack from the State, the Gardaí, Anglo Irish Bank and their receivers and senior legal teams, it has become necessary for me to step aside as . The constant abuse of process and late filing of affidavits on the night before the hearings, is a clever ploy to delay the court case and keep me occupied in a frivolous court battle up to the elections.

It is just not possible for me to lead the party while the elections are on the horizon, so while it has become necessary for me to step down as leader I fully intend to stand as an MEP candidate in the coming election in May
While a small few within the party are delighted to see me step down, as they said I have become toxic, I still enjoyed overwhelming support from the majority of the party. To them I take this opportunity to thank them for all their support. To the few of which I no longer have their support I would like to say that I accept their stance and bear them no malice.

Direct Democracy was really set up to challenge a corrupt system where the rights of the people were put aside to protect corporate corrupt entities that have ruined this country. I constantly attacked the system and the system attacked back and a few of the DDI members believed the attacks, one went as far as to say I broke the law. Even the system didn’t find me guilty before a trial.

The ironing is particularly delicious today.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ArmaniJeanss

whippet wrote: »

I don't know how legit this seems to be but looks like a statement from Mr. Gilroy

http://thepressnet.com/2014/02/03/messagge-from-ben-gilroy-leader-of-direct-democracy/

so he wants to jump on the Brussels gravy train now, wouldn't fancy his chances in that election.

He really like to sound like the victim

A bit strange that he is supposedly going back to being an ordinary member ,yet can just nominate himself to be their candidate for the EU elections. I wonder was there a vote.
What sort of money does it cost to run a realistic campaign anyway, presumably in the new Midlands NW constituency that stretches from Mayo to Meath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(Ireland)

I'm guessing a 6 figure sum to run a realistic campaign (maybe a bit less if they run in the Dublin constituency). But surely burning money (sourced where?) which could be better spent in targeting some specific council seats in the local elections in areas where they are strongest with a view to getting names esatablished for a run in the ~2016 GE.
Seems madness.

humberklog

So BG and Jaan the spaceman are running in the EU elections. Jaan has yet to show his hand and declare which constituency. Meanwhile there are 3 declared runners in the local elections: all 3 in Drogheda!

How on earth (or universe for Jaan) are they gonna fund an attempt at 2 EU seats? And what on earth are the three amigos thinking? Splitting the vote in such a way I can hear the boot leather being stretched from here.

After isolating themselves from LMFM and with 2 members running their pied piper message of reform in the EU elections what will be left in the kitty for the 3 amigos in Drogheda? Will they be getting about the hustings on blue spacehoppers with their feet poking out of their boots waving pied piper banners proclaiming the manifesto of the squeeky door?

The ego and the idiots.

All as far as I'm reading.

Grudaire

I assume they'll be in different wards though? (I think there's around 4 wards in louth?!)

Local elections aren't done as one large constituency.. but lets hope they democratically have no mandate for nonsense after the elections!

MilanPan!c

humberklog wrote: »

So BG and Jaan the spaceman are running in the EU elections. Jaan has yet to show his hand and declare which constituency. Meanwhile there are 3 declared runners in the local elections: all 3 in Drogheda!

How on earth (or universe for Jaan) are they gonna fund an attempt at 2 EU seats? And what on earth are the three amigos thinking? Splitting the vote in such a way I can hear the boot leather being stretched from here.

After isolating themselves from LMFM and with 2 members running their pied piper message of reform in the EU elections what will be left in the kitty for the 3 amigos in Drogheda? Will they be getting about the hustings on blue spacehoppers with their feet poking out of their boots waving pied piper banners proclaiming the manifesto of the squeeky door?

The ego and the idiots.

All as far as I'm reading.

Ja(a)n is living in a dreamworld. Trying to figure out his motivations using reason is doomed to fail.

humberklog

Browsing through a few recent posts on the DDI FB site can show up a few things about its members and supporters.

The Chairman of DDI hasn't really grasped the big news of the day- the bugging of the GSOC. He refers a few times to the Gardi being bugged.

There's a rough outline of how 15% of the nation vote for the ruling of 100% of the people. This is based on a 30% election turn out. But that maths is a bit whacky as it doesn't take into account our PR system of voting. Someone asked a good question: if DDI don't think that a 30% showing isn't good enough then what percentage do they propose will be enough to implement a recall referendum? This question's left unaswered by DDI.

A supporeter of DDI proposed a taxation system that if you earn more than you can spend in a week then you should...eh, I think he wants what you can't spend to be taken by the revenue (he's a little sketchy, but that's the gist). More intereting though was the response by the leader of DDI where he shows an interest in a 100% death tax system. A "you can't take it with you" tax. He goes on to say that this would encourage people to spend their money before they die.

Jaan Van de Ven was "elected" as leader at the recent AGM. Ben Gilroy announced that night that he was stepping down, he reckoned Jaan would be a fitting replacement for him and everyone agreed. A pretty direct form of democracy for sure.

Justin Beiber should be in jail.

ArmaniJeanss

humberklog wrote: »

Jaan Van de Ven was "elected" as leader at the recent AGM. Ben Gilroy announced that night that he was stepping down, he reckoned Jaan would be a fitting replacement for him and everyone agreed. A pretty direct form of democracy for sure.

The fact that Ben Gilroy was still apparently leader came as a bit of a surprise to me, as it appeared to contradict their statement about a month earlier about how Ben (and Ray Whitehead et al) no longer had anything other than an advisory role and instead there was a 7 person committee in charge under Jeff Rudd as National Chairman.
Very confusing.

Davarus Walrus

The trials, tribulations, accusations and hyperbole coming out from DDI are adding to the gaiety of the nation.

BlutendeRabe

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A bit strange that he is supposedly going back to being an ordinary member ,yet can just nominate himself to be their candidate for the EU elections. I wonder was there a vote.
What sort of money does it cost to run a realistic campaign anyway, presumably in the new Midlands NW constituency that stretches from Mayo to Meath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(Ireland)

I'm guessing a 6 figure sum to run a realistic campaign (maybe a bit less if they run in the Dublin constituency). But surely burning money (sourced where?) which could be better spent in targeting some specific council seats in the local elections in areas where they are strongest with a view to getting names esatablished for a run in the ~2016 GE.
Seems madness.

The only reason I could see him running in the Euros would be to give him more publicity and more attention for getting a seat at the locals. The Greens and SF have done it before.
Its unrealistic anyway given as you mentioned the sheer size of the constituency.

Btw does anyone reckon Marian Harkin will lose her seat running there?

humberklog

The Rise of the Nutters continues in earnest.

In trying to achieve some media reach they held their recent agm behind closed doors. There was a media ban for the circus show of BG reappearing as leader to suddenly resigning as leader but not before he appointed the new leader Jan of the party. 1000+ members unanimously approved Jan. I blame floridation of our precious bodily fluids for this mong-in's maliability.

So instead of inviting the press in they keep them out and then release a press statement in the hope it'll get printed in the nationals. It doesn't. So they place it in a couple of regionals. Unfortunately what they do get printed is unreadable. The batty message mixed with an ignorance of basic grammar appears on the page like a clumsy "special" cousin fidgeting with himself.

Enter The Conspiracy. Always just hiding behind the curtains in DDI. The Irish Independent didn't print the gobbledeegook not because it came from a party whose internal antics are as unquestionable as they are unfathomable but because they're trying to suppress a new radical system of governence. And they don't like Ben. The press really, really don't like Ben and are bent on only reporting him negatively.

The national press is in the pocket of The Man and wants to keep the population dumb and sedate. That, and the flouride.

Hijpo

humberklog wrote: »

clumsy "special" cousin fidgeting with himself.

In what context are you using the term "special"?

humberklog

Hijpo wrote: »

In what context are you using the term "special"?

Below average intellect. Requiring extra adult supervision. It's in reference to how an article in the Drogheda Leader looked on the page to me. It was a small peice centre page with general banal snippets of other news on the same page. But the other articles were at least readable. The article wasn't accredited to any particular journalist.

4zn76tysfajdxp

How a nothing party with no representation anywhere apart from a few Facebook and Twitter pages can expect to have their non-stories printed in the nationals is beyond me. They're suffering from delusions of grandeur of the highest order.

MilanPan!c

Jagger Hundreds Tailspin wrote: »

How a nothing party with no representation anywhere apart from a few Facebook and Twitter pages can expect to have their non-stories printed in the nationals is beyond me. They're suffering from delusions of grandeur of the highest order.

Well.

The truth is that most of these sorts of press releases are pushed by PR people. Who are being paid.

Those folks, depending on a matrix of things, can get you some exposure. Some.

But the media in this sort of circumstance is essentially pay-to-play.

DDIs "success" with it's media campaign is based on the crapiness of their product, coupled with cheaping out on PR.

Hijpo

humberklog wrote: »

Below average intellect. Requiring extra adult supervision. It's in reference to how an article in the Drogheda Leader looked on the page to me. It was a small peice centre page with general banal snippets of other news on the same page. But the other articles were at least readable. The article wasn't accredited to any particular journalist.

"special" is usually used to shorten the term "special needs".
So if that is the actual context you are using it in then i would appreciate it if you changed it. Having a close family member with special needs your comment offends me and using it as an insult or in a comparison in the manner you have is disgusting and juvenile.

humberklog

Hijpo wrote: »

"special" is usually used to shorten the term "special needs".
So if that is the actual context you are using it in then i would appreciate it if you changed it. Having a close family member with special needs your comment offends me and using it as an insult or in a comparison in the manner you have is disgusting and juvenile.

I won't change it. I'm happy enough if one of the forum mods decides it's inappropriate and changes it. But as it stands I'm happy enough with it. I too have people close me with special needs and I have no problem with that word in that use. You being offended is not a matter I care about.

spank_inferno

Hijpo wrote: »

"special" is usually used to shorten the term "special needs".
So if that is the actual context you are using it in then i would appreciate it if you changed it. Having a close family member with special needs your comment offends me and using it as an insult or in a comparison in the manner you have is disgusting and juvenile.

You can be offended if you wish.
However it doesn't make you right.
Nor does it make you a censor.

ArmaniJeanss

Hijpo, as a member you might be able to satisfy my curiousity on the leadership issue.

Were people generally aware Ben was still leader up to this month? It was my understanding that he'd retreated to being just an ordinary member back in December when the 7 person National Council came into being with Jeff Rudd as national chairman. The statement on DDI in Decmeber definitely indicated his.

Before the AGM were members aware there was going to be a leadership vote?
If not did anyone point out that normally you'd sojourn for a few weeks, see who wanted to be or was wanted by others to be leader, have some hustings, then have a democratic vote of all members usually including those who couldn't make the meeting?

Cheers if you get a chance to answer.

Hijpo

humberklog wrote: »

I too have people close me with special needs and I have no problem with that word in that use.

Then you should know better than to use it in such a distasteful manner and im shocked that you would admit that your "happy with it" considering you have people close to you with special needs, whether you care about causing me offence or not.

spank_inferno wrote: »

You can be offended if you wish.
However it doesn't make you right.
Nor does it make you a censor.

I do not wish to be offended, that does not mean i cannot be offended.

In your opinion, being offended by that term used in that manner is wrong?

And asking someone to change something is not censorship so i dont know where your getting that idea from.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Hijpo, as a member you might be able to satisfy my curiousity on the leadership issue.

Were people generally aware Ben was still leader up to this month? It was my understanding that he'd retreated to being just an ordinary member back in December when the 7 person National Council came into being with Jeff Rudd as national chairman. The statement on DDI in Decmeber definitely indicated his.

Before the AGM were members aware there was going to be a leadership vote?
If not did anyone point out that normally you'd sojourn for a few weeks, see who wanted to be or was wanted by others to be leader, have some hustings, then have a democratic vote of all members usually including those who couldn't make the meeting?

Cheers if you get a chance to answer.

I was not at the AGM so i can only give my outside view on the matter. As far as i know people were made aware of Ben stepping down through the meetings being held by local committees. Ben then suggested Jan at the AGM, the members at the AGM then voted for Bens replacement, it did not have to be Jan, it does not have to be Jan for the full term of however many months that role is assigned. I would be comfortable with an overlap of leadership for a few weeks to see that the duties and work being done by the previous leader was handed over smoothly, as a member i would be satisfied that the vote was upheld and that Ben has been replaced.

As for the members who could not make the meeting, im sure if people were not happy with Jan then they can use the avenues open to them to remove him. The fact that he was voted in in the first place would suggest that the majority are content with him being leader though.

Just to add, I see DDI for the system that it is and not the people being ridiculed. All the wrong doings of current parties and censorship of their members opinions and the people here slating DDI because of a handful of characters will carry on with them regardless.

Scofflaw

humberklog wrote: »

I won't change it. I'm happy enough if one of the forum mods decides it's inappropriate and changes it. But as it stands I'm happy enough with it. I too have people close me with special needs and I have no problem with that word in that use. You being offended is not a matter I care about.

It was unnecessary, given the wide range of possible options to describe awkwardness. As such, yellow carded.

However, further discussion of the post adds nothing to the thread, so let that be that, everyone, please.

moderately,
Scofflaw

humberklog

I noticed that Ray Whitehead (founder of DDI) has said he'd like to see Aisling Fitzgibbon run for DDI in the up coming elections. This vote of confidence got the backing of The chairman, Jeff Rudd.

Aisling Fitzgibbon is The Girl Against Fluoride. Her mother is Martha Brassil.

DDI passed a motion at it's AGM saying that once DDI is in a position of power it will stop the practice of fluoridation of our mains water supply.

Ray was speaking after a talk by Aisling. A talk he found "eye opening". One would have thought that his eyes were already wide open re this matter before DDI voted on it. But we all live and learn I suppose.

I do wonder how much more from this woman and her group would DDI have their eyes opened? Anti vaccination? Contraception pills being a factor in someone being born gay?

Aisling hasn't as far as I can see committed in any way to DDI.

Here's some background on Aisling

http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.com/2013/11/girl-against-fluoride-f-minus-for-effort.html

BlutendeRabe

humberklog wrote: »

I noticed that Ray Whitehead (founder of DDI) has said he'd like to see Aisling Fitzgibbon run for DDI in the up coming elections. This vote of confidence got the backing of The chairman, Jeff Rudd.

Aisling Fitzgibbon is The Girl Against Fluoride. Her mother is Martha Brassil.

DDI passed a motion at it's AGM saying that once DDI is in a position of power it will stop the practice of fluoridation of our mains water supply.

Ray was speaking after a talk by Aisling. A talk he found "eye opening". One would have thought that his eyes were already wide open re this matter before DDI voted on it. But we all live and learn I suppose.

I do wonder how much more from this woman and her group would DDI have their eyes opened? Anti vaccination? Contraception pills being a factor in someone being born gay?

Aisling hasn't as far as I can see committed in any way to DDI.

Here's some background on Aisling

http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.com/2013/11/girl-against-fluoride-f-minus-for-effort.html

I wonder if she'll be topless on her election posters.

Wouldnt vote for her, but It'd be nice.

humberklog

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

I wonder if she'll be topless on her election posters.

Wouldnt vote for her, but It'd be nice.

Vote "Double D"?

humberklog

I was wondering what happened to the people behind the split last year so I did a little looking about and found some of them in a party called Irish Democratic Party.

What was the differences and similarities between them now?

Instead of comparing their policies and ambitions, which I previously found too frustrating when it came to DDI, I decided to look at the members, followers and likers from Facebook and see where they were coming from by looking at other groups, events and statements they liked or followed. So I'm looking at what other interests the supporters of both parties have.

It's not sceintific, I'm just going with how I see it as an ordinary interested voter.

IDP are more stridently catholic, an older style republicanism than present day SF, more women involved and it's mostly people from the midlands down to the south/S. west of the country.

The similarities though I find very odd...anti fluoridation and anti vaccination sites pop up a lot in both camps. Only DDI has nailed its colours firmly to the mast re anti fluoridation- they've gone as far as making a policy of it. There's also a lot more Angel messages of love and spiritual strength on IDP followers' timelines.

Homeopathy is everywhere in both camps. But it's not that they're saying they like this brand of medicine, it's that a lot of the suppoters are practitioners or students of homeopathy. They're involved in homeopathic practices. I popped over to the other larger brand parties to see if it was the same there...no it wasn't.

I can't for the life of me figure out why so many people that are promoting Homeopathy sites, courses and programmes are involved across the board in both parties. It's far too many to be a coincidence as no other party has anything like what IDP and DDI have. And there's just not enough homeopaths to go around:pac:.

I don't know enough about homeopathy to debunk it as a snake oil money making scam however the chairman of DDI has in the past and on this very site.

I do find it funny that both parties are loaded with people that want the government to take a chemical out of the water because it is bad for us and then they have interests in businesses that pretend to put something into water and want to sell it to us as medicine.

Thankfully I'll be grand as I must have read 100 life affirming angel messages and now feel top notch.

Is there something in the waters of IDP/DDI?...or is there nothing in their water?

spank_inferno

I didn't know the former DDI members were involved with IDP?

From what I've seen from IDP, they are not what you would call a progressive bunch.

Very isolationist, very DeVelera & sadly a bit 'Ireland for the Irish'.

UKIP without the UK part.

humberklog

spank_inferno wrote: »

I didn't know the former DDI members were involved with IDP?

Yeah, Ken Smollen and Elizabeth Houricane for a start. Took those names from the really good Mick Clifford article (quoted on page1) and popped them in here...https://www.facebook.com/DDIresignationsandrebellion.

While the message and way of delivering it is much the same as DDI there is a big difference: IDP do engage with and answer questions put to them by ordinary but curious voters on their FB pages. DDI is broken in this regard. They're far too tragically paranoid. They will instead ask you to come to a meeting, they want you in the room; like time-share salesmen or scientologists or homeopaths.
Everyone is a possible enemy to DDI until they pay their 10quid subs.

The GDR (East Germany) had democracy in their title just like DDI. And a political system built on paranoia and conspiracy: just like DDI.

benway

spank_inferno wrote: »

From what I've seen from IDP, they are not what you would call a progressive bunch.

Very isolationist, very DeVelera & sadly a bit 'Ireland for the Irish'.

UKIP without the UK part.

DDI are much the same, from what I've seen.

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

Ben was still leader up to this month?

According to himself, he's going to be running in the Euros in Dublin and in the locals in Meath - pretty telling comments from >50mins or so in this podcast< with his totally not Freeman on the Land mates at Tír na Saor radio. He hasn't gone away, you know.

Also, funnily enough, much of the legal education that Ben's purporting to empart smacks distinctly of Freeman woo. But, nah, I must be dreaming it, because Ben's not into that kind of thing and never has been.

I like how he suggests that a certain judge of the High Court is wearing a "Freemason Ring" in a press photo, but later in the show admits that he just pulled that off the top of his head and that he has no idea whether it's anything to do with Freemasonry. But still, conspiracy yeah?

Jan Van de Ven is an interesting one, >profile here< ("I mean, he makes Ben Gilroy look credible.")

Going by his now-deleted facebook page (screencap, cached), pretty sure that Jan Van de Ven is one and the same as Jan Alexander Van De Ven aka. Jaananda.

Seems to hold himself out as some kind of >spiritual guide<, samples of his poetry >here<.

antithesis thesis and synthesis

trinary

binary

singular

source

::::I am that force::::

Marxist leanings, by the look of it. Among other things.

ArmaniJeanss

humberklog wrote: »

Only DDI has nailed its colours firmly to the mast re anti fluoridation- they've gone as far as making a policy of it.

IDP have now joined in with being an official policy, abolition of fluoride is part of the 13 point plan on their official statement on facebook.
They seem to have discovered the My Oil and Gas video as well in the last few days.

I'm disappointed by IDP to be honest, when they split from DDI I genuinely hoped they might put forward the core idea of Direct Democracy (which I think is interesting enough) without surrounding themselves with the nuttier excesses that DDI attract. But arguably they are worse.