Direct Democracy Ireland: the split?

MRnotlob606

ben gilroy in court for trespassing.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

I cant wait until he starts that freeman crap with the prison staff!

ezra_pound

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I cant wait until he starts that freeman crap with the prison staff!

I can't wait until he tries the freeman magic when he, er has to pick up the soap.

Robbo

It appears that they now have interesting interpretations of the laws of thermodynamics. The pylon issue can be cured by simply perfecting cold fusion and the liberal use of free energy devices, thus enabling us to bring our entire transmission network down to the scrapyard for cash money.

Hijpo

:rolleyes:

What about lines like "All these things may never happen." and "At the very, very least we should explore these options, we should be open to new and seemingly unbelievable information".

ArmaniJeanss

Hijpo wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What about lines like "All these things may never happen." and "At the very, very least we should explore these options, we should be open to new and seemingly unbelievable information".

Are you saying we should give some credence to BLPs and DrMills claims now, despite them being complete bumkum every other time he has made these claims over the last 30 years.
Because it looks like a standard 'give me more money, I'm making progress' play by a spoofer, really not the sort of thing DDI should be falling for.

Hotblack Desiato

Sounds to me exactly the sort of thing DDI would fall for.

Hijpo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Are you saying we should give some credence to BLPs and DrMills claims now, despite them being complete bumkum every other time he has made these claims over the last 30 years.
Because it looks like a standard 'give me more money, I'm making progress' play by a spoofer, really not the sort of thing DDI should be falling for.

No, im just saying that i think the article is about not taking the governments and there consultants word as gospel when they say "this is the only way"

ninja900 wrote: »

Sounds to me exactly the sort of thing DDI would fall for.

Oh DDI have history for falling for stuff? Tell us more about the investigating youv done.

Did anyone look into the changes implimented by the members (by members i mean on the ground members not the likes of Ben Gilroy or Ray Whitehead) of DDI since they found out about the dodgy party constitution?

Hootanany

Calhoun wrote: »

The article is pretty much what I would expect from any organisation imploding, all it does is fan the crazy.

I don't buy the whole cloak and dagger storyline, I would have assumed most if not all political parties wouldn't bother their ass infiltrating and trying to destroy the new party from the inside out because there are many more pitfalls out there to stop fledgling organisation (monetary ect).

To use this as the sole basis for having an undemocratic setup or dictatorship if you will is ridiculous, what's worse is the text talking about abolishing it is very wishy washy.

Then we come to the cork piece which is unreal, I don't know what happened but I can critically think for myself and I smell BS. Even if it was true you can imagine it doesn't look good for either side that it happened kinda makes ya think they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

As one of the many disenfranchised citizens in this country their credibility is blown ( not that they had far to fall), looks like the attempted launch will fail again.

They have my vote and anyone else I can convince

humberklog

Hijpo wrote: »

Did anyone look into the changes implimented by the members (by members i mean on the ground members not the likes of Ben Gilroy or Ray Whitehead) of DDI since they found out about the dodgy party constitution?

I read the following pasted post on the 9th of this month and found the writing to be awful and the achievements listed to be vague (at best). I've been keeping a curious eye on how this party was going to evolve over the year.
Since the heave in December and the new board put in place the party's message (and how it is delivered) has become increasingly weird.

---

From the 9th, posted by the new national chairman Jeff Rudd on the Direct Democracy FB page...

Since the National Executive formation, the people placed upon it, informing the media and others as to the new faces and their positions the following in the last few weeks alone has been achieved:

• DDi has gained serious credibility through acting and seen to be so, more professional.

• We are daily operating a lot more with functions assigned and tasks being more quickly carried out.

• Response times to inquiries have greatly improved and the feedback has been then positive.

• One Nation orgamisation (35K membership) is willing open to talk with DDI and has subsequently contacted people on the National Executive.

• Another national industry society has come to DDI and wished to talk.

• A further good number of TD and Senators are now talking DDI serious as a political movement.

• We have been the sole political party invited to a major national even in Dublin.

• Through actual appointed National Executive members and the visibility now established stability, we have not one but two possible to gain Borough opportunities even before the Local elections.

• The main website is now being updated and revamped.

• We have created the opportunities for more policies to be created and additionally submitted.

• The media is willing to talk to us in a more professional and serious manner. An example of this would be the makers of the RTE show “Primetime” who have come to DDI.

• Northern Ireland newspapers recognise DDI as a more legitimate force to challenge the Irish government in the future and are giving us publicity as a consequence of this.

• Negative Internet chatter has died down considerably and others now are conversing with more accurate facts.

• With the likes of news sites such as Journal.ie – the comments left on the site by the public amazingly has been suddenly more in favour of DDI than previously.

• Members of DDI are being followed and listened to by serious people through social media. Journalists, business people consultants, third level teachers, Gardi, staff involved in other essential services and more, are reading about persons on the National Executive then through personal contact, are wishing to further get involved.

• A number of professional organisations have been able to establish contact with established personnel on the National Executive. * Jeff Rudd in communicating Frank Daly, the Chairman of Nama, Phil Hogan, the Minister of Environment, Dr James Reilly, Minister for Health, * Media Executive Kevin Brady in ability to converse with Senator sand other established political representatives.

• We have instigated official inquiries over events that have raised national concern on a number of matters. These include the current state of the HSE ability to maintain its ambulance service, the operations day to day of NAMA, a possible pollution issue that could effect major business and the public, and called through correspondence, for further investigation in regard to certain individuals who are trying to use the British bankruptcy laws to escape possible paying of debts at home in Eire.

• Nationally, Opposition party attacks in the last few weeks have completely deflated directly due to the created 3 page constitutional change to article 14 which gives even greater democracy to the party - unlike the rest of Irelands political parties. DDI's re-written constitution section 17 which now introduces Recall with in the DDI itself, again making it more democratic and far more open/answerable to the people than other parties.

Let keep up the good work.

johnnyskeleton

So, Ben Gilory-ism without Ben Gilroy?

Hotblack Desiato

Hijpo wrote: »

Oh DDI have history for falling for stuff? Tell us more about the investigating youv done.

It's exploitation of the wishful thinking of the gullible, we'd like houses for free just as much as we'd like energy for free, but neither is ever going to happen.

It suits charlatans to support each other, because if they do then they all profit, if they expose each other then none of them profit.

Hijpo

ninja900 wrote: »

It's exploitation of the wishful thinking of the gullible, we'd like houses for free just as much as we'd like energy for free, but neither is ever going to happen.

It suits charlatans to support each other, because if they do then they all profit, if they expose each other then none of them profit.

Not another ren cent and child benefit will not be touched yadda yadda yadda

BlutendeRabe

humberklog wrote: »

I read the following pasted post on the 9th of this month and found the writing to be awful and the achievements listed to be vague (at best). I've been keeping a curious eye on how this party was going to evolve over the year.
Since the heave in December and the new board put in place the party's message (and how it is delivered) has become increasingly weird.

---

From the 9th, posted by the new national chairman Jeff Rudd on the Direct Democracy FB page...

Since the National Executive formation, the people placed upon it, informing the media and others as to the new faces and their positions the following in the last few weeks alone has been achieved:

• DDi has gained serious credibility through acting and seen to be so, more professional.

• We are daily operating a lot more with functions assigned and tasks being more quickly carried out.

• Response times to inquiries have greatly improved and the feedback has been then positive.

• One Nation orgamisation (35K membership) is willing open to talk with DDI and has subsequently contacted people on the National Executive.

• Another national industry society has come to DDI and wished to talk.

• A further good number of TD and Senators are now talking DDI serious as a political movement.

• We have been the sole political party invited to a major national even in Dublin.

• Through actual appointed National Executive members and the visibility now established stability, we have not one but two possible to gain Borough opportunities even before the Local elections.

• The main website is now being updated and revamped.

• We have created the opportunities for more policies to be created and additionally submitted.

• The media is willing to talk to us in a more professional and serious manner. An example of this would be the makers of the RTE show “Primetime” who have come to DDI.

• Northern Ireland newspapers recognise DDI as a more legitimate force to challenge the Irish government in the future and are giving us publicity as a consequence of this.

• Negative Internet chatter has died down considerably and others now are conversing with more accurate facts.

• With the likes of news sites such as Journal.ie – the comments left on the site by the public amazingly has been suddenly more in favour of DDI than previously.

• Members of DDI are being followed and listened to by serious people through social media. Journalists, business people consultants, third level teachers, Gardi, staff involved in other essential services and more, are reading about persons on the National Executive then through personal contact, are wishing to further get involved.

• A number of professional organisations have been able to establish contact with established personnel on the National Executive. * Jeff Rudd in communicating Frank Daly, the Chairman of Nama, Phil Hogan, the Minister of Environment, Dr James Reilly, Minister for Health, * Media Executive Kevin Brady in ability to converse with Senator sand other established political representatives.

• We have instigated official inquiries over events that have raised national concern on a number of matters. These include the current state of the HSE ability to maintain its ambulance service, the operations day to day of NAMA, a possible pollution issue that could effect major business and the public, and called through correspondence, for further investigation in regard to certain individuals who are trying to use the British bankruptcy laws to escape possible paying of debts at home in Eire.

• Nationally, Opposition party attacks in the last few weeks have completely deflated directly due to the created 3 page constitutional change to article 14 which gives even greater democracy to the party - unlike the rest of Irelands political parties. DDI's re-written constitution section 17 which now introduces Recall with in the DDI itself, again making it more democratic and far more open/answerable to the people than other parties.

Let keep up the good work.

Rudd was also on wikipedia, attempting to remove information about some of DDI' more unsavory aspects. After being reverted by several editors, he started claiming he had received death threats and then went onto say:

I state all this knowing that I am putting my life at very risk via other people/supporters out in the real world - and should anything happen to me now or in the future, I wish Wikipedia to notify the Irish Gardi and Interpol as to the events that has occurred here and what might be connected to my sudden death or any injury that might fall upon me. I have already been threatened by phone call prior to this and this matter is being brought to the attention of our Irish police (Gardi) force. I have now made a public similar statement on my own personal website, that my health and welfare might be at risk. I have now notified a number of people to the events surrounding this page and topic should anything happen to myself. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ADirect_Democracy_Ireland#September_2013_-_content_dispute

He is bizarre to say the least.

humberklog

@Blute, I hadn't seen any of that wiki arguement- thanks for the link.

There's so many peculiarities with this party- the evasiveness to simple questions put on it's official website are just ignored. Huge gaps in the explanation of its mechanics are simply left unadressed as are questions on the previous political affiliations of the new board members and how many people have officially joined this party (not how many likes they've received on FB). There can't be any more straight forward questions as: how many are you? Where are you coming from? How exactly does what your pushing work?

And all the while a simply barking bunch of posts are put out on FB pages and twitter. From extra bike lanes being bad (somehow) to a call for Justin Beiber to be banned. I'm not kidding on either btw.

Most troubling in my view is how often they call posters questioning them Stupid. Once you agree with them, regardless of how crass or nutty that allegiance is shown then all is fine. The same goes for media attention too. A few months back Jeff Rudd was on LMFM, he was vague and...well maybe a little daft sounding. JR promoted the interview via FB. Within a few months he was reporting the same interviewer to the BAI for what he thought was unfair handling of Ben Gilroy. The complaint wasn't upheld.

While some of the members are strongly against Scientology some of them do act a lot like them.

Evelyn Cusack

Direct Democracy itself isn't necessarily a bad idea.
But, as the website and Facebook page confirms, the method of democracy comes second to the fact that it is being used as a platform by those who don't want to pay their debts and who want world class services without paying more tax.

I would have some respect for them if all they wanted to do was instill direct democracy and took a policy neutral position.

Or even if they could explain how to get around the fact that the country is spending much more than it earns regardless of any bailout debt.

Also, Jeff Rudd can barely string a coherent sentence together...

Hijpo

Jeff Rudd is only one man, just like Gilroy. The DDI model is set up in such a way that the party is not controlled by a minority or a party whip like usual lot so whatever Rudd and Gilroy say can be taken as opinions and not mandates or goals.

For instance from the meetings i have been to in my constituency there has been no use of freeman nonsence or talks of complete debt forgivness etc but more achievable ideas like fixing interest rates for a number of years or writing off a percentage of a persons mortgage, rewriting the licences or terms and condtions for our resources and the exploration of them, making third level education more affordable, investigate the bailout payments dont just take it at face value that its ok to turn the debts of private banks into national debt.

Thats my understanding of what the members in my area are about. Some terminology could be wrong like bailouts or write offs etc but you know what im getting at so no need to get anal retentive about it, thanks.

BlutendeRabe

humberklog wrote: »

@Blute, I hadn't seen any of that wiki arguement- thanks for the link.

There's so many peculiarities with this party- the evasiveness to simple questions put on it's official website are just ignored. Huge gaps in the explanation of its mechanics are simply left unadressed as are questions on the previous political affiliations of the new board members and how many people have officially joined this party (not how many likes they've received on FB). There can't be any more straight forward questions as: how many are you? Where are you coming from? How exactly does what your pushing work?

And all the while a simply barking bunch of posts are put out on FB pages and twitter. From extra bike lanes being bad (somehow) to a call for Justin Beiber to be banned. I'm not kidding on either btw.

Most troubling in my view is how often they call posters questioning them Stupid. Once you agree with them, regardless of how crass or nutty that allegiance is shown then all is fine. The same goes for media attention too. A few months back Jeff Rudd was on LMFM, he was vague and...well maybe a little daft sounding. JR promoted the interview via FB. Within a few months he was reporting the same interviewer to the BAI for what he thought was unfair handling of Ben Gilroy. The complaint wasn't upheld.

While some of the members are strongly against Scientology some of them do act a lot like them.

Some of their views are really strange. The two you've mentioned plus also this: http://directdemocracyireland.ie/tag/energy-2/ which is little more than free energy woo. Given their links with the National Health Federation, I'd also expect something about how vaccines are evil and "toxic" and vaccination programmes should be scrapped.
Unsurprisingly the party has generated a lot of discussion on the freeman megamerge thread on boards.

How they deal with the media and people simply criticizing a point or policy is really unprofessional and odd. It makes them look like a bunch of crazies. I also cant fathom why they constantly inflate their membership numbers and support. Unless some elected official defects to them, I can't see them making any gains in the next locals.

ArmaniJeanss

Hijpo wrote: »

Jeff Rudd is only one man, just like Gilroy. The DDI model is set up in such a way that the party is not controlled by a minority or a party whip like usual lot so whatever Rudd and Gilroy say can be taken as opinions and not mandates or goals.

I obviously don't go to the meetings so all I can take as policy is what I see on the likes of the facebook page. If its written by JR and only represents his opinion then you need to re-examine the model, as all I see is bizarre stuff under the DDI banner and assume its the official position.

Interestingly you say that the Waterford branch has discussed 'rewriting the licences or terms and condtions for our resources and the exploration of them'.
Can I ask during such discussions have many people pointed out that a) the current license terms are fair when compared to similar countries at the initial stage of their resource exploration, b) not a barrel of oil has yet been successfully brought to market from an Irish field c) the current lack of exploration rigs off the coast of Ireland (and poor takeup of the last set of available licences) indicates that the exploration companies see Ireland as a longshot at best.

Hotblack Desiato

Hijpo wrote: »

For instance from the meetings i have been to in my constituency there has been no use of freeman nonsence or talks of complete debt forgivness etc but more achievable ideas like fixing interest rates for a number of years or writing off a percentage of a persons mortgage, rewriting the licences or terms and condtions for our resources and the exploration of them, making third level education more affordable

All of those things would cost a lot of money. Who pays?

Hijpo

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

Some of their views are really strange. The two you've mentioned plus also this: http://directdemocracyireland.ie/tag/energy-2/ which is little more than free energy woo. Given their links with the National Health Federation, I'd also expect something about how vaccines are evil and "toxic" and vaccination programmes should be scrapped.
Unsurprisingly the party has generated a lot of discussion on the freeman megamerge thread on boards.

How they deal with the media and people simply criticizing a point or policy is really unprofessional and odd. It makes them look like a bunch of crazies. I also cant fathom why they constantly inflate their membership numbers and support. Unless some elected official defects to them, I can't see them making any gains in the next locals.

The main points in that article for me are what John O ‘Connor said about pylons being put near his home and Enda Kennys flippant reason for backing the project. There reasons for backing the project in terms of looking after themselves are not to far fetched in my opinion. Biogas is a viable alternative for domestic electricity generation in my opinion if used in conjunction with other renewable energies. Germany, Austria and Sweden are fairly advanced in their use of biogas so its not all stuff of dreams which was the first impression given in a previous post that singled out dream to perfect cold fusion, youll notice that DDI do not say that perfecting cold fusion is the only way which is the reason given when asked "why do we need to erect pylons, can we not go under ground?" instead they attempt to educate people by saying there is on going research into two new energy generation systems. Heres a snippet as i feel people who already have there mind made up about DDI, based on two individuals, have not read the article for what it is but rather skimmed through it and selected certain parts and took them out of context to suit there own ideas.

It may be pie in the sky, but respectable scientists and institutions say it isn’t. If it isn’t then a forward-looking country seeking to improve the way of life of all who live in it, who care for the environment and nature, who don’t care for pylons, should look into it as a possible solution which would neatly solve most of our most pressing issues: recession, energy, CO2 and pollution, pylons.

Again, notice how they say we should look into it and not "this is the only way". I would put my life savings on a bet that Pat Rabbit has not investigated other avenues of energy generation and has not assigned any of his well paid consultants to either.
Heres another snippet just to enforce my understanding of the article

These claims sound outrageous, and require a close look at the website of this company to determine if there is any substance behind them. Looking at their website one finds a section with independent third party test results, with the full result reports available. The reports make for interesting reading, as they confirm what BLP claim. It appears as though BLP have a breakthrough energy device which is clean, small, cheap and safe.

They then go on to say

In a direct democracy ideas like these can happen

For me this does not say "these ideas will happen" it says to me that any alternative ideas on any issues can be looked at, will be looked at and have an chance of being implimented not just disregarded because of an individual.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I obviously don't go to the meetings so all I can take as policy is what I see on the likes of the facebook page. If its written by JR and only represents his opinion then you need to re-examine the model, as all I see is bizarre stuff under the DDI banner and assume its the official position.

Interestingly you say that the Waterford branch has discussed 'rewriting the licences or terms and condtions for our resources and the exploration of them'.
Can I ask during such discussions have many people pointed out that a) the current license terms are fair when compared to similar countries at the initial stage of their resource exploration, b) not a barrel of oil has yet been successfully brought to market from an Irish field c) the current lack of exploration rigs off the coast of Ireland (and poor takeup of the last set of available licences) indicates that the exploration companies see Ireland as a longshot at best.

Yes they have, firstly it depends on what countries you are comparing us to? How close to our coast can drilling take place in comparison to england for example or how about comparing the fact that several countries have changed their laws to reclaim a greater share of gas and oil wealth. How much money could the Kinsale and Corrib fields have generated for the country if the licences and tax agreements were adjusted to similar countries?

ninja900 wrote: »

All of those things would cost a lot of money. Who pays?

The banks have already been bailed out and saved, with the worst being "liquidated". The ECB rates are at an all time low yet the interest rates in our banks have increased, my mortgage has gone up by over 400 euro per month in the last 3 years. The government says banks must be seen to be profitable, but how much profit is acceptable? Freezing interest rates still generates money as interest is still being paid so they are not loosing out there not to mention all the charges applied quarterly and the ability to pay bonuses to bosses etc tells me they are not short of a few bob. Profits are being made, they have been saved, let them take some form of hit. The government says they cannot get involved in the trading practices of the banks, however when the poor people of priory hall needed help Enda was on hand, dont get me wrong im happy to see these families get there problems sorted but from a government point of view they can either interfere with banks or the cant.
In terms of a write down, it would not be substantial in the way of 40% or anything over it but say 20% would ease the pressure somewhat.

Suzyq

@Hijpo...

Firstly thanks for your post earlier.

I think you're not a spokesman for DDI but if you've the time to answer some questions that the DDI party members are ignoring it would be appreciated...

How many paid up members are there?

Do you think the present board is representing its members well and do you think the present board are in their full mental faculties?

How does "recall" work? As in: (for e.g if there was an overall DDI government) if an 80 year old woman, a FF voter, in Crosshaven, Co. Cork doesn't like the cut of a minister's jib and that minister's brief for example is looking after a bag of marbles (she doesn't like how he handles said marbles) but the minister's constituency in South County Dublin? How does that work?

As said, it's not up to you to answer but DDI is simply not answering any questions put to them on their website. And this is weird beyond the extreme.

Do you have an opinion on why simple questions are not answered by DDI on their website?

Hotblack Desiato

You didn't answer any of my questions Hijpo.

Yes the banks are increasing variable rate mortgages. This is because they are having to pay over the odds on deposits to hang onto the deposits, and because they are losing money on tracker mortgages. So, if you want to give variable mortgage holders a break you will have to hit either depositors or tracker mortgage holders. Probably both. I have a tracker mortgage and the bank will honour that contract, or else I will sue them, and I will win. So who pays for the gift to the variable mortgage holders? Not me that's for sure.

Again, oil and gas licences already sold are a property right. If you want to take that property right away, you will have to pay.

I would agree with making third level education more affordable, free fees for the rich was a big mistake, but let's not pretend that we can do this without charging the better off a multiple of what they're paying in registration fees now.

Hijpo

Suzyq wrote: »

@Hijpo...

Firstly thanks for your post earlier.

I think you're not a spokesman for DDI but if you've the time to answer some questions that the DDI party members are ignoring it would be appreciated...

How many paid up members are there?

Do you think the present board is representing its members well and do you think the present board are in their full mental faculties?

How does "recall" work? As in: (for e.g if there was an overall DDI government) if an 80 year old woman, a FF voter, in Crosshaven, Co. Cork doesn't like the cut of a minister's jib and that minister's brief for example is looking after a bag of marbles (she doesn't like how he handles said marbles) but the minister's constituency in South County Dublin? How does that work?

As said, it's not up to you to answer but DDI is simply not answering any questions put to them on their website. And this is weird beyond the extreme.

Do you have an opinion on why simple questions are not answered by DDI on their website?

Hi Suzy,
I have no idea how many paid up members there are, i couldnt even guess.

I think two or three individuals on the present board are a bit eccentric and in my opinion any press releases or facebook comments should be taken as the opinion of the poster and not the views of DDI as a party. What i like about the DDI model is that these two or three eccentric members are not able to dictate or influence any referendums or mandates by themselves. To enforce this the regular members of DDI voted to scrap this Executive Council that was set up by the party founders and choose to elect a National Executive which is made up of committee members from all counties elected by the people present at the last national meeting, to me this shows that DDI is free to evolve in ways that the current parties are not. I really like this, no party whip to make sure the majority toe the line.

The 80 year old FF womans recall is initated when a sufficient number of voters sign the petition to remove said minister. I would presume the same would happen at local council level.

The DDI website is in my view a bit naff to be honest and im pretty sure its severly understaffed. No body within DDI is working at it full time as far as i know. I have managed to get quick responses by emailing the admin of the group in my constituency, so if thats available to you you could try that.

ninja900 wrote: »

You didn't answer any of my questions Hijpo.

Yes the banks are increasing variable rate mortgages. This is because they are having to pay over the odds on deposits to hang onto the deposits, and because they are losing money on tracker mortgages. So, if you want to give variable mortgage holders a break you will have to hit either depositors or tracker mortgage holders. Probably both. I have a tracker mortgage and the bank will honour that contract, or else I will sue them, and I will win. So who pays for the gift to the variable mortgage holders? Not me that's for sure.
Again, oil and gas licences already sold are a property right. If you want to take that property right away, you will have to pay.
I would agree with making third level education more affordable, free fees for the rich was a big mistake, but let's not pretend that we can do this without charging the better off a multiple of what they're paying in registration fees now.

Why are they having to pay over the odds on deposits to hold onto them?
How much money are they loosing through tracker mortgages?
Are the banks currently making no money at all?
If they are at the current rates why cant they be frozen? I understand that any business needs to make profits, that is after all business but it goes back to how much profit is enough? Enough to be able to pay out bonus's even in banks that got bailed out, or enough to help struggling home owners find there feet for a few years until we turn another corner?

The oil and gas licence contracts involved a convicted criminal who told his consultants to leave the room while he negotiated them with major gas and oil companies behind closed doors. Have any of our ministers even looked into whether these contracts are valid based on these facts?

College funding needs to be micro managed. The education sector is being run by like minded people who run ths country, priorities are based on themselves and not the bigger picture. You have issues like chartering private aircraft, spending money on fine art, gifts, hospitality and foreign travel. A review of one institute of technology identified non-pay spending of almost €1 million and of this, €368,000 was insufficiently documented.
Of the €368,000, the review had identified between €110,000 and €120,000 which had a “personal benefit” to its president.
Corruption and greed is rife in this country, no body earning the big bucks is prepared to stop it because in my view they would be bitting the hand that feeds them.

Hotblack Desiato

Hijpo wrote: »

Why are they having to pay over the odds on deposits to hold onto them?

Because a few years back, lots of depositors pulled out their money when it looked like Irish banks might fail.

How much money are they loosing through tracker mortgages?

They're lending this money at a cheaper rate than they can get it from depositors or the markets. It's up to you or DDI to quantify this though if you think the banks can afford giveaways.

Are the banks currently making no money at all?

If you don't know, isn't it rather silly to say they should be handing out free money? Free money which is taxpayers' money anyway?

The oil and gas licence contracts involved a convicted criminal who told his consultants to leave the room while he negotiated them with major gas and oil companies behind closed doors. Have any of our ministers even looked into whether these contracts are valid based on these facts?

Not the Ray Burke thing again. We've had a few changes of government since then. Were any of the current licences actually issued by him? Why would an oil company pay anything like as much to drill here as they would in say, Norway, where the chances of success are far higher?
This has all been gone over in all sorts of threads. There is quite a low level of interest in drilling in Irish waters so that is proof there is no giveaway.

College funding needs to be micro managed. The education sector is being run by like minded people who run ths country, priorities are based on themselves and not the bigger picture. You have issues like chartering private aircraft, spending money on fine art, gifts, hospitality and foreign travel. A review of one institute of technology identified non-pay spending of almost €1 million and of this, €368,000 was insufficiently documented.
Of the €368,000, the review had identified between €110,000 and €120,000 which had a “personal benefit” to its president.
Corruption and greed is rife in this country, no body earning the big bucks is prepared to stop it because in my view they would be bitting the hand that feeds them.

One instance in one organisation isn't proof of anything being rife, it's just smearing a whole sector.

humberklog

Now that the local election date is set for the 23rd of May it'll be interesting to see how many people DDI will have running and in how many districts. But what I'm more interested in is how they're going to get their message out because it would appear to me that they don't like some sections of the media. Or probably more bizarrely: they think that some sections of the media don't like them. That's how some of their posts read to me.

For example LMFM could have been useful to DDI as 3 of the board are from that area but I can't imagine that they'll be entertained too much by that radio station.

Posters, leaflets and knocking on doors take time and money and I don't think would be hugely effective for local elections as most people don't really care about them.

DDI's internet presence has got increasingly whacky and very, very disjointed so I can't see them pulling off an Obama style success using social media.

I wonder how they'll get their message out clearly. There's a whole new political system to be explained to a largely uninterested population.

Hijpo

ninja900 wrote: »

Because a few years back, lots of depositors pulled out their money when it looked like Irish banks might fail.

They're lending this money at a cheaper rate than they can get it from depositors or the markets. It's up to you or DDI to quantify this though if you think the banks can afford giveaways.

If you don't know, isn't it rather silly to say they should be handing out free money? Free money which is taxpayers' money anyway?

Its not free money if they are charging interest, all im saying is that they freeze interest rates on mortgages for a number of years. The banks still make money and people know they wont get hit for another couple of hundred per month as time goes on. A little bit of financial security goes along way when an economy needs people to spend more. Actually, seen as its tax payers money thats kept these institutions in the game, you would think they would be a little more understanding of peoples troubles. After all it was ultimately the banks wreckless lending that put the gun to there own heads, then after the tax payer comes along (well, forced by a drunk minority at 3am) and digs them out they turn the gun on us.

ninja900 wrote: »

Not the Ray Burke thing again. We've had a few changes of government since then. Were any of the current licences actually issued by him? Why would an oil company pay anything like as much to drill here as they would in say, Norway, where the chances of success are far higher?
This has all been gone over in all sorts of threads. There is quite a low level of interest in drilling in Irish waters so that is proof there is no giveaway.

yes Ray Burke, the crook thats still being provided a wealthy pension by the state might i add. Why shouldnt he be mentioned, he had a big involvment in them. Have any of the licences been changed by previous governments in order to better our standing should oil/gas be found or are they still very much the same as when the convict drew them up in private??
Of course it would be rediculous to increase figures to Norways levels, thats a completely different situation but what about increasing tax on profits by 20% incase something is found? As it stands if they find nothing we get nothing and if the find something we get very little if anything at all, it makes no sense. The only thing being effected here is the cost of profits should they strike it. What happens if they find something next year?

ninja900 wrote: »

One instance in one organisation isn't proof of anything being rife, it's just smearing a whole sector.

I said corruption and greed is rife in this country and evidence of this is available in abundance, so im not just smearing a whole sector because of one report.
In saying that if it can happen in that one instance in one organisation it can happen anywhere and more than likely it is, to convince yourself it isnt is being a bit naive or how did you put it to me previously, silly

Are you aware of the level of corruption in this little country? are you happy with the level of justice being handed down to those that have been found to be involved in corruption? Are you comfortable knowing theres not a thing you can do about it?
A yes to any of the above is horrendous.


I would be interested to hear any ideas you have or efforts your making to make some changes here.

ArmaniJeanss

Hijpo wrote: »

Of course it would be rediculous to increase figures to Norways levels, thats a completely different situation but what about increasing tax on profits by 20% incase something is found? As it stands if they find nothing we get nothing and if the find something we get very little if anything at all, it makes no sense. The only thing being effected here is the cost of profits should they strike it. What happens if they find something next year?

13 of the 986 available exploration licenses were taken by the exploration companies the last time the government offered licenses. (early 2012 I think).
If the terms offered had been much worse for the exploration companies (as you are suggesting they be) then logically the number would have been even less than 13.
Its been explained on multiple threads by posters far more eloquent than me that the whole objective of the cheap licenses is to actually spark some interest in the exploration companies, hopefully hit a big commercial field and then we would be in a position to demand a better deal (as happened in other countries after the initial strike) on the remaining 883 fields.

Hotblack Desiato

Hijpo wrote: »

Its not free money if they are charging interest, all im saying is that they freeze interest rates on mortgages for a number of years. The banks still make money

You don't understand. This would mean the banks lose more money. The banks don't have access to free money, it's borrowed (from depositors or markets, like every bank in the world) and they have to pay interest on this money they are lending out. It doesn't make any sense for them to lend out money more cheaply than they can get it themselves.

and people know they wont get hit for another couple of hundred per month as time goes on.

Well, they should've got a fixed rate or perhaps a tracker then, shouldn't they?

A little bit of financial security goes along way when an economy needs people to spend more.

It's not financial security for the banks though, and we can't afford to pump even more money into the banks just so they can hand out free money to mortgage holders. Its unjust, especially to taxpayers who are renters.

Actually, seen as its tax payers money thats kept these institutions in the game, you would think they would be a little more understanding of peoples troubles.

See my last point. It's unjust, and it would be throwing good money after bad, and the country can't afford it anyway.

After all it was ultimately the banks wreckless lending that put the gun to there own heads, then after the tax payer comes along (well, forced by a drunk minority at 3am) and digs them out they turn the gun on us.

No point harping on about the events of 5 years ago, what's done is done.

Have any of the licences been changed by previous governments in order to better our standing should oil/gas be found or are they still very much the same as when the convict drew them up in private??

So you don't know what the system is but just want to complain about it anyway?

I said corruption and greed is rife in this country and evidence of this is available in abundance

No, allegations are in abundance. Evidence not proven in court isn't evidence.
Transparency International doesn't rate us too badly. That's not to say we can't improve, but we much prefer the poor mouth in this country to taking a balanced view of things.

In saying that if it can happen in that one instance in one organisation it can happen anywhere and more than likely it is

What do you base 'more than likely it is' on? It is like saying that if the Gardai catch a murderer living in your street, there must be a murderer in every street.

hatrickpatrick

ninja900 wrote: »

All of those things would cost a lot of money. Who pays?

The banks, their undeserved-bonus-reaping executives and their investors take a hit for once to make our lives easier, after we all took a hit to make their lives easier.