Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

godwin

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

Valetta

Proper order.

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear and will be on your way in no time.

Far too many people scamming the system for my liking, and we're all paying for it.

suicide_circus

Industrial/business estates, not housing

Cd_doe

Can gardai do checkpoints and verify who you are??

Yes...

fishy fishy

godwin wrote: »

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

well I suppose they have to put the guards to work somehow. I mean after making sure the elderly have their phone allowance taken from them, they won't be getting any phone calls or alarm calls from people in need because the ones that need it won't have any phones to call from.

A.Partridge

Ha ha ha !

It's hilarious that Gardai will be checking out people who are doing a bit of black market work.

I know lots of gardai with two jobs or more ! :pac:

P_1

suicide_circus wrote: »

Industrial/business estates, not housing

From the end of the article,

"While Ms Burton said "estates", she later insisted that she meant housing estates rather than industrial estates."

Presume they're going after lads doing nixers

Gatling

There already doing it and its apparently a success garda checkpoint's manned by welfare inspectors there working in the airports too for the last 12 - 18 months,

A lot of the time there already looking for particular people and car/ van regs

bumper234

fishy fishy wrote: »

well I suppose they have to put the guards to work somehow. I mean after making sure the elderly have their phone allowance taken from them, they won't be getting any phone calls or alarm calls from people in need because the ones that need it won't have any phones to call from.

Yeah you're right let's not catch those fraudsters who work and claim the dole costing the country millions sure it's only a nixer people have been doing them for years :rolleyes:

Valetta

A.Partridge wrote: »

Ha ha ha !

It's hilarious that Gardai will be checking out people who are doing a bit of black market work.

I know lots of gardai with two jobs or more ! :pac:

What's wrong with a guard having more than one job?

bumper234

A.Partridge wrote: »

Ha ha ha !

It's hilarious that Gardai will be checking out people who are doing a bit of black market work.

I know lots of gardai with two jobs or more ! :pac:

They are not claiming the dole though.

Dyr

Auntie Joan is setting the coppers on jimmy nixer?

Auntie Joan should ask the coppers if they're doing a bit as as well

How dare these unemployed scoundrels take jobs away from joe taxpayer. Thats what auntie joans jobsbridge scheme is for.

Old Dan Tucker

How is this going to work?

Surely they will not just admit they are going to work.

"Where are you off to today?"

"Just going painting a house and will be earning €400 ...doh!!

You caught me fair and square Guard".

Delirium

suicide_circus wrote: »

Industrial/business estates, not housing

it's housing estates according to the linked article. it's at the very bottom of the text.

While Ms Burton said "estates", she later insisted that she meant housing estates rather than industrial estates.

Cd_doe

A.Partridge wrote: »

Ha ha ha !

It's hilarious that Gardai will be checking out people who are doing a bit of black market work.

I know lots of gardai with two jobs or more ! :pac:

Translation : "I know lots of hard working gardai"

bumper234

Old Dan Tucker wrote: »

How is this going to work?

Surely they will not just admit they are going to work.

"Where are you off to today?"

"Just going painting a house and will be earning €400 ...doh!!

You caught me fair and square Guard".

Guards stop you and ask where you are going (usually they stop vans etc ) and take your details, Then the welfare officer who is with the guard will run a check on you and see if you are on the dole system.

godwin

bumper234 wrote: »

Then the welfare officer who is with the guard will run a check on you and see if you are on the dole system.

So how will the Welfare Office know you're going to work and not just off down the shops?

legrandemac

Maybe the guards could actually go into the estates, and tackle a few drug dealers, you know, the ones that sign on as well, and kill two birds with the one stone!

General General

What's this about Weed Checkpoints?

hardCopy

godwin wrote: »

So how will the Welfare Office know you're going to work and not just off down the shops?

Or on your way to an interview

jank

godwin wrote: »

So how will the Welfare Office know you're going to work and not just off down the shops?

I presume they will have some sort of Intel to go after the right people and not be some ad hoc venture. If a guy is claiming the dole yet is in a van with a few lads, with material, tools, wads of cash and so on, well its not hard to make a case.

godwin

jank wrote: »

I presume they will have some sort of Intel to go after the right people , If a guy is claiming the dole yet is in a van with a few lads, with material, tools, wads of cash and so on, well its not hard to make a case.

At random check points?

jank wrote: »

well its not hard to make a case.

Trying to prove it is though.

Gatling

godwin wrote: »

So how will the Welfare Office know you're going to work and not just off down the shops?

For instance 4 lads stopped in a van full of tools at 6am at a check point ,explain there off to fix a friend computer welfare checks show there all in receipt of payments ,when they are asked separately all give different stories ,
Information taken ,warrants for the address got follow up investigation finds payslips and so on at the address
Caught red handed

kneemos

I may be wrong but I don't think they're allowed cut anybody's dole completly.

A.Partridge

Valetta wrote: »

What's wrong with a guard having more than one job?

Plenty..if they are getting paid under the counter.

Valetta

A.Partridge wrote: »

Plenty..if they are getting paid under the counter.

Of course, but why did you specify gardai?

hansfrei

JBs point translates as - if I can see the suitcase people arriving every Tuesday morning, why can't the fcuking coppers?

A.Partridge

Valetta wrote: »

Of course, but why did you specify gardai?

Because gardai are the one's who have been asked to stop people when they leave their estates.

(It just seems a bit ironic, to me.)

Valetta

A.Partridge wrote: »

Because gardai are the one's who have been asked to stop people when they leave their estates.

(It just seems a bit ironic, to me.)

But you only said that you know lots of guards with "two jobs or more".

Do you actually know that they are not declaring the extra income and if so it begs two questions:

a) How do you know and

b) have you reported them?

Lyaiera

Isn't it a thing that guards aren't legally allowed work a job other than guarding?

Del2005

Valetta wrote: »

But you only said that you know lots of guards with "two jobs or more".

Do you actually know that they are not declaring the extra income and if so it begs two questions:

a) How do you know and

b) have you reported them?

If the double jobbing Gardaì declared the income for the 2nd job it'd only be paid as dole to the people claiming and working. Then there'd be no need to report people working and claiming the dole. Then the revenue could just go after all the people working and not paying tax. Which would mean that they'd still get the people on the dole and working.

So if a Garda, or anyone else, is working a 2nd job and not declaring the income for tax it makes zero difference to stopping people working and claiming the dole.

anncoates

Politics 101: deflect anger about stealth taxes, crumbling health system and budget cuts by mere mention folk demon of single mother/serial nixer/dole cheat.

end of the road

Valetta wrote: »

Proper order.

no it isn't "proper order" as its a political stunt and thats all it will be, infact i'd wager it won't happen at all.

Valetta wrote: »

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear

a great statement, used by supporters of a survailence big brother society, doesn't work on me, just because i've nothing to hide doesn't mean i put up with any old thing

Valetta

end of the road wrote: »

no it isn't "proper order" as its a political stunt and thats all it will be, infact i'd wager it won't happen at all.


a great statement, used by supporters of a survailence big brother society, doesn't work on me, just because i've nothing to hide doesn't mean i put up with any old thing

It's not about you, it's about everyone.

Seachmall

Lyaiera wrote: »

Isn't it a thing that guards aren't legally allowed work a job other than guarding?

They can work other jobs, although there are certain jobs they can't work at.

end of the road

legrandemac wrote: »

Maybe the guards could actually go into the estates, and tackle a few drug dealers

they have been doing that for years, it hasn't worked, to much of a demand for the illegal drugs

Red Kev

kneemos wrote: »

I may be wrong but I don't think they're allowed cut anybody's dole completly.

Was on the dole for the first time in my life about 4 years ago for 3 months before I went self employed, worked for over 20 years before that. It was obvious from day 1 how easy it was to scam. My 2 cents:

1. Payment in the P.O. every week, not by bank transfer. (I know those getting it paid into the banks are fewer than before and new dole recipients have to go to the P.O. but it will weed a few of them out).

2. Sign on every week, and on different days, it'll make life awkward for those working and almost impossible for those working abroad. My brother is working in London on a site with 0 Irish lads, there's about 12 of them who fly over here once a month to sign on.

3. Introduce a "work card". A form of safe photo I.D. that you need to have on you if working on any publicly funded project. Or expand it for anyone working in an area where a safe pass is needed or whoever is driving a commercial vehicle. You need a FAS safe pass so why not a proper one. Instad of the Fas safe pass just issue them with the new Public Services Card. And roll this out to everybody. You get a PPS number, you get the PS card.

First two are doable within a couple of months, third one can be rolled in over a couple of years.

Karl Stein

Aren't PR people just fucking despicable?

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

Edward Bernays ("the father of public relations")

old hippy

godwin wrote: »

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

It's the police state that some here have been clamouring for. Picking on ordinary folk who've been let down by successive governments, that's the way forward. Never mind all the white collar/political/corporate cheats.

Yawns

It seems to have been a typo as it now reads

While Ms Burton said "estates", she later insisted that she meant industrial estates rather than housing estates.

So not housing estates but industrial estates.

Gatling

Yawns wrote: »

It seems to have been a typo as it now reads



So not housing estates but industrial estates.

Hopefully both

bizmark

Pr stunt they will "catch" 5 people over the course of 15 months and claim it a victory to deflect attention when the polls are down and each one of those people will have been reported to them by someone they either annoyed or is out to personal defend the honor of the state

Son Of A Vidic

Valetta wrote: »

Proper order.

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear and will be on your way in no time.

Far too many people banking scum scamming the system for my liking, and we're all paying bailing those bastárds out for it.

Fyp.

Valetta

old hippy wrote: »

It's the police state that some here have been clamouring for. Picking on ordinary folk who've been let down by successive governments, that's the way forward. Never mind all the white collar/political/corporate cheats.

Ah... the old "ordinary folk" line.

Next it will be "the most vunerable in society".

Yawn. Give me a break.

Gatling

bizmark wrote: »

Pr stunt they will "catch" 5 people over the course of 15 months and claim it a victory to deflect attention when the polls are down and each one of those people will have been reported to them by someone they either annoyed or is out to personal defend the honor of the state

They caught 100's this year alone it's no pr stunt

hansfrei

Gatling wrote: »

They caught 100's this year alone it's no pr stunt

Hundreds? lol.

They should be catching thousands

RichardoKhan

If only they placed as much onus or emphasis on Tax avoidance & cheating!

bizmark

Cant have that its the underclass that you need to keep the boot on not the likes of google and co

Yawns

Gatling wrote: »

Hopefully both

Doubt it tbh. Anyone doing a nixer can simply say they are going to the shops or something. Unless you catch them with tools and in some kind of uniform, not many if any at all will get caught.

However going into an industrial estate during typical industrial working hours would be enough suspicion to have you called into office for an interview. If you are signing on everyday for 2 weeks or so your employer won't be happy to have you off work. If the employer wasn't aware you were claiming whilst working, they won't be happy either. Either way it's easier to to catch them in industrial estates rather than housing estates.

Not 100% effective either as what about retail workers or pubs etc. I suppose for retail you could have local social department workers sent out around the local area in hopes they might recognise a face from the dole queue. If they do, they could have them come in for an interview and sign on every day for a week or 2 etc.

But then you'd most likely need to pay an expense to the DSP worker for taking them out of the office and what not.

rookie1470

godwin wrote: »

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

I would have no issue with being stopped and asked where I'm going etc, I could be wrong and there may have been a thread somewhere onthis before but are the Gardai entitled to ask these questions unless they are investigating an actual crime or your involvement in a crime?? I suppose it all depends on the type of attitude of the Garda or the member of social welfare who approaches these people will be. I would cooperate but if I felt I was being unfairly spoken to or questioned I would have an issue.

SEPT 23 1989

Any social welfare official who stops me going about my business is going to get an earful