Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

anncoates · 16-10-2013 03:45PM

Politics 101: deflect anger about stealth taxes, crumbling health system and budget cuts by mere mention folk demon of single mother/serial nixer/dole cheat.

end of the road · 16-10-2013 03:48PM

Valetta wrote: »

Proper order.

no it isn't "proper order" as its a political stunt and thats all it will be, infact i'd wager it won't happen at all.

Valetta wrote: »

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear

a great statement, used by supporters of a survailence big brother society, doesn't work on me, just because i've nothing to hide doesn't mean i put up with any old thing

Valetta · 16-10-2013 03:51PM

end of the road wrote: »

no it isn't "proper order" as its a political stunt and thats all it will be, infact i'd wager it won't happen at all.

a great statement, used by supporters of a survailence big brother society, doesn't work on me, just because i've nothing to hide doesn't mean i put up with any old thing

It's not about you, it's about everyone.

Seachmall · 16-10-2013 03:54PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

Isn't it a thing that guards aren't legally allowed work a job other than guarding?

They can work other jobs, although there are certain jobs they can't work at.

end of the road · 16-10-2013 03:54PM

legrandemac wrote: »

Maybe the guards could actually go into the estates, and tackle a few drug dealers

they have been doing that for years, it hasn't worked, to much of a demand for the illegal drugs

Red Kev · 16-10-2013 03:55PM

kneemos wrote: »

I may be wrong but I don't think they're allowed cut anybody's dole completly.

Was on the dole for the first time in my life about 4 years ago for 3 months before I went self employed, worked for over 20 years before that. It was obvious from day 1 how easy it was to scam. My 2 cents:

1. Payment in the P.O. every week, not by bank transfer. (I know those getting it paid into the banks are fewer than before and new dole recipients have to go to the P.O. but it will weed a few of them out).

2. Sign on every week, and on different days, it'll make life awkward for those working and almost impossible for those working abroad. My brother is working in London on a site with 0 Irish lads, there's about 12 of them who fly over here once a month to sign on.

3. Introduce a "work card". A form of safe photo I.D. that you need to have on you if working on any publicly funded project. Or expand it for anyone working in an area where a safe pass is needed or whoever is driving a commercial vehicle. You need a FAS safe pass so why not a proper one. Instad of the Fas safe pass just issue them with the new Public Services Card. And roll this out to everybody. You get a PPS number, you get the PS card.

First two are doable within a couple of months, third one can be rolled in over a couple of years.

Karl Stein · 16-10-2013 03:56PM

Aren't PR people just fucking despicable?

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

Edward Bernays ("the father of public relations")

old hippy · 16-10-2013 03:58PM

godwin wrote: »

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

It's the police state that some here have been clamouring for. Picking on ordinary folk who've been let down by successive governments, that's the way forward. Never mind all the white collar/political/corporate cheats.

Yawns · 16-10-2013 03:58PM

It seems to have been a typo as it now reads

While Ms Burton said "estates", she later insisted that she meant industrial estates rather than housing estates.

So not housing estates but industrial estates.

Gatling · 16-10-2013 03:59PM

Yawns wrote: »

It seems to have been a typo as it now reads

So not housing estates but industrial estates.

Hopefully both

bizmark · 16-10-2013 04:01PM

Pr stunt they will "catch" 5 people over the course of 15 months and claim it a victory to deflect attention when the polls are down and each one of those people will have been reported to them by someone they either annoyed or is out to personal defend the honor of the state

Son Of A Vidic · 16-10-2013 04:01PM

Valetta wrote: »

Proper order.

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear and will be on your way in no time.

Far too many people banking scum scamming the system for my liking, and we're all paying bailing those bastárds out for it.

Fyp.

Valetta · 16-10-2013 04:03PM

old hippy wrote: »

It's the police state that some here have been clamouring for. Picking on ordinary folk who've been let down by successive governments, that's the way forward. Never mind all the white collar/political/corporate cheats.

Ah... the old "ordinary folk" line.

Next it will be "the most vunerable in society".

Yawn. Give me a break.

Gatling · 16-10-2013 04:04PM

bizmark wrote: »

Pr stunt they will "catch" 5 people over the course of 15 months and claim it a victory to deflect attention when the polls are down and each one of those people will have been reported to them by someone they either annoyed or is out to personal defend the honor of the state

They caught 100's this year alone it's no pr stunt

hansfrei · 16-10-2013 04:06PM

Gatling wrote: »

They caught 100's this year alone it's no pr stunt

Hundreds? lol.

They should be catching thousands

RichardoKhan · 16-10-2013 04:06PM

If only they placed as much onus or emphasis on Tax avoidance & cheating!

bizmark · 16-10-2013 04:08PM

Cant have that its the underclass that you need to keep the boot on not the likes of google and co

Yawns · 16-10-2013 04:08PM

Gatling wrote: »

Hopefully both

Doubt it tbh. Anyone doing a nixer can simply say they are going to the shops or something. Unless you catch them with tools and in some kind of uniform, not many if any at all will get caught.

However going into an industrial estate during typical industrial working hours would be enough suspicion to have you called into office for an interview. If you are signing on everyday for 2 weeks or so your employer won't be happy to have you off work. If the employer wasn't aware you were claiming whilst working, they won't be happy either. Either way it's easier to to catch them in industrial estates rather than housing estates.

Not 100% effective either as what about retail workers or pubs etc. I suppose for retail you could have local social department workers sent out around the local area in hopes they might recognise a face from the dole queue. If they do, they could have them come in for an interview and sign on every day for a week or 2 etc.

But then you'd most likely need to pay an expense to the DSP worker for taking them out of the office and what not.

rookie1470 · 16-10-2013 04:09PM

godwin wrote: »

Can they do this? I mean what civil rights does a person have if they get stopped at a check points by welfare and the garda enquiring who they are and where they are going?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/burton-garda-checkpoints-on-estates-to-weed-out-welfare-cheats-29665728.html

I would have no issue with being stopped and asked where I'm going etc, I could be wrong and there may have been a thread somewhere onthis before but are the Gardai entitled to ask these questions unless they are investigating an actual crime or your involvement in a crime?? I suppose it all depends on the type of attitude of the Garda or the member of social welfare who approaches these people will be. I would cooperate but if I felt I was being unfairly spoken to or questioned I would have an issue.

SEPT 23 1989 · 16-10-2013 04:11PM

Any social welfare official who stops me going about my business is going to get an earful

Jamie2k9 · 16-10-2013 04:12PM

About time Burton "actually" did something useful, long overdue and should of being done the minute she took office. Single mothers claims need to be targeted next.

Karl Stein · 16-10-2013 04:13PM

RichardoKhan wrote: »

If only they placed as much onus or emphasis on Tax avoidance & cheating!

Or concentrated in reducing the cost of the massive multi-billion euro welfare programs for failed gambling bond-holders, failed property speculators, failed politicians and failed civil servants.

Yawns · 16-10-2013 04:14PM

Afaik you'll only be required to give your name etc to a guard and unless he has suspicions that you committed an offence, he cannot detain you. You don't need to talk with the social worker at all. If you are claiming tho and they find out, they can suspend your claim if they suspect you are going to work and call you in for interviews etc in the office. Failure to attend interviews can lead to claims being closed.

blackplum123 · 16-10-2013 04:18PM

and get them to pay back what they fraudulently claimed......plus interest

My name is URL · 16-10-2013 04:22PM

I'd love to know how much it costs to stage these sort of checkpoints before joining the populist bandwagon welcoming it. And how exactly would they determine if you're on your way to work? That'd be quite a task unless you happened to have a van full of tools or something, and even then how could they prove what you were at?

Seems a bit pointless to me, but anything which panders to the dribbling masses is good in their book.

stoneill · 16-10-2013 04:22PM

Have your PPS number linked to Passport number and driving licence and car ownership.

Every time you go through airport security - beep - you are clocked.
Every time you use a toll road - beep - clocked
Stopped at a checkpoint? beep - clocked again.
Signing on - beep - clocked, BTW what were you doing on the M50 6 times this week and heading to Faro last week?

Yawns · 16-10-2013 04:22PM

blackplum123 wrote: »

and get them to pay back what they fraudulently claimed......plus interest

Hard to do that because when they catch someone they declare the savings made to be that equal to what the claimant would have been claiming until they died basically. So if they caught a young person, aged say 20, claiming whilst working tomorrow, they would say the made a savings of circa 300k euro

KyussBishop · 16-10-2013 04:29PM

There's going to be more and more stuff like this encroaching every year now, applied only to people less well off, with nothing really being done at all about 'elite' fraud (among those wealthy/powerful/connected enough, to be immune from law/ethical-restraints surrounding fraud/corruption).

Given that stuff like this, is caused not just by our government, but by the fiscal constraints imposed on our government by Europe, this means all possible political parties are likely to do more and more stuff like this, and that your vote is useless for pushing back against policies like this.

So - how should people be exercising political power on issues like this, if their vote isn't much use? If there's no pushback, it will get worse - so if protesting and union strike action are the only political tools available that can provide any real pushback, there is no reason not to use them, right? (nobody really has any better alternatives, which the general public can use - altogether, not just things a small number can do - for exercising their political power)

bizmark · 16-10-2013 04:30PM

stoneill wrote: »

Have your PPS number linked to Passport number and driving licence and car ownership.

Every time you go through airport security - beep - you are clocked.
Every time you use a toll road - beep - clocked
Stopped at a checkpoint? beep - clocked again.
Signing on - beep - clocked, BTW what were you doing on the M50 6 times this week and heading to Faro last week?

/o\ good god

I to want to be tracked by the all knowing benevolent government every day every time i travel and do anything

Dyr · 16-10-2013 04:31PM

its threads like this that make you realise how the brits managed to overlord this country for so long

Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

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