Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

Michael..

Does anybody have a link to the plans for both projects ?

Would like to get a bit more detail on them.

Rhys Essien

Michael.. wrote: »

A lot of people are going for the Beamish site simply because it's more ambitious.

I must admit, it does look relatively nice and it would do wonders for that part of the city. However, I notice Bam keep saying that development will take place on a phased basis.

I'm concerned that if Bam get the go ahead they'll build the event centre and leave the rest of the site desolate for many more years until such time as demand for city centre apartments etc picks up.

If it was a straight race between the two event centres - leaving aside the extra development Bam has included - I think O'Callaghan's proposal is superior.

It's location is far better and as far as I know they have Live Nation on board which is an absolute must.

A bit of useless information for you but BAM are probably the biggest construction company in Europe.They have recently built the Leeds Arena and the Berlin Arena.Im sure themselves and Heineken will have no hassle getting a top promoter for the gigs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_arena

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_World_(Berlin)


Another thing,who should get the naming rights to the Cork Arena.I like the sound of the Apple Arena.

who_me

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I reckon that the traffic situation in the Beamish would be so dire that it would eventually alleviate itself, if that makes sense? Driving to an event there simply wouldn't be an option so people would have to look at alternative methods of arriving there.

The Albert Quay site by comparison already has a busy road network so the impact on the general public would be a lot bigger given it's proximity to the Link Road, train station, bus station etc.

Nuts, I wrote a long post yesterday on this but couldn't post it..

I very much agree about driving up to the front door. It's being put in the city centre so you DON'T drive to it. People avoid the city centre as it is because of traffic/parking, imagine how much worse it would be with 6,000 people milling around. If either centre had an off-street dropoff area, it might work a bit better, Beamish might have more scope for that.

Albert Quay is much better for public transport though.

who_me

calnand wrote: »

The Albert quay site is in my opinion the weaker project. It's an awful design cramped into a location too small for it. The beamish site is far superior, it will create a landmark building in Cork and a new cultural centre in a city that is slowly dying. The brewery quarter is exactly what cork needs to rejuvenate the inner city. Have a read of all the documents available on the planning website, and you'll come to the same conclusion as me. O'Callaghan has done great things for the city but I don't think his event centre is the better choice.

I don't know how you can say this, given you like the Beamish proposal.

The Beamish design looks awful from the river side. And it's a massive complex, crammed into a relatively small site. I prefer the Beamish site, but hate the proposed design.

calnand

I'm on my phone no not sure of link will work. http://planning.corkcity.ie/InternetEnquiry/rpt_QueryBySurForRecLoc.asp and enter. 1134944 for the Albert quay site and 1034698 for the brewery quarter site. You'll need to install djvu software to view files.

mordeith

For anyone interested there is a model of the Bam/Heineken development on display in Casey's window (Oliver Plunkett street)

Thepikapi

I think that the beamish arena will probably draw in money as it will bring in touring concerts, shows like cirque du soleil or Disney on ice and can be used for large scale conferences. The Albert's quay site is more of a large theatre like the grand canal in Dublin, so it'll probably bring large scale touring productions from the west end as the opera house stage is too small, more people (mainly younger people) will want to see one direction in the beamish rather than the lion king on Albert's quay. I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

Rhys Essien

Thepikapi wrote: »

I think that the beamish arena will probably draw in money as it will bring in touring concerts, shows like cirque du soleil or Disney on ice and can be used for large scale conferences. The Albert's quay site is more of a large theatre like the grand canal in Dublin, so it'll probably bring large scale touring productions from the west end as the opera house stage is too small, more people (mainly younger people) will want to see one direction in the beamish rather than the lion king on Albert's quay. I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

I imagine both venue's could cater for the same shows.The capacity of the new arena will be 6000 seater(whatever one they choose).The Opera House can only hold 1000.

Another thing,would it not be better to spread the development around the city especially with the new big office block that will be built on Albert Quay shortly.

Thepikapi

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I imagine both venue's could cater for the same shows.The capacity of the new arena will be 6000 seater(whatever one they choose).The Opera House can only hold 1000.

Another thing,would it not be better to spread the development around the city especially with the new big office block that will be built on Albert Quay shortly.

That's true, but the office block has been delayed by Nama. However, arenas are completely different to theatres, the seating, rigging and acoustics must follow a certain standard in theatres. Also the albert's quay centre won't be hosting anything like the one in the beamish if it were to be used as an events centre/theatre. I imagine that if the O'Callaghan site gets picked to be done first, (which, let's face it, is unlikely) they'll probably just cop out and do an arena despite how much a large scale theatre is needed (probably because of how people really just want an arena).

Michael..

Thepikapi wrote: »

That's true, but the office block has been delayed by Nama. However, arenas are completely different to theatres, the seating, rigging and acoustics must follow a certain standard in theatres. Also the albert's quay centre won't be hosting anything like the one in the beamish if it were to be used as an events centre/theatre. I imagine that if the O'Callaghan site gets picked to be done first, (which, let's face it, is unlikely) they'll probably just cop out and do an arena despite how much a large scale theatre is needed (probably because of how people really just want an arena).

I'd imagine whoever wins the bid will have Live Nation on board. Be that the Albert Quay development or Beamish.

AugustusMinimus

Thepikapi wrote: »

I personally think that the Albert's quay site is more accessible, helps out an area of town that is struggling, costs less and adds more of a desperately needed main-stream culture scene. Although the beamish site will inevitably revive the city centre, I think we should save up for it so we don't lose out like we did with the Elysian(which probably will stay empty until the economy balances out).

The Albert Quay site is just off the N27 which is the main route for taking North - South and South - North through the city centre.

There's endless moaning about Mahon Point being built right beside the SRR. Due to it being built there, the Mahon Interchange is regularly blocked up with traffic. No way should the shopping centre have been built there.

O'Callaghan is now calling for this centre to be built right beside the N27. The area of the N27 around Albert Quay is already probably the area of the city centre with the heaviest traffic. It can be terrible there at times. You throw that event centre catering for 6,000 people into the mix and you are asking for some serious trouble.

The Beamish site will be accessed very differently. The parking of cars will be a lot more spread out and access believe it or not won't be as congestion inducing as at the other site as people will park and walk from a greater distance. South Main Street is not very prone to heavy traffic also.

BUNK1982

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The Albert Quay site is just off the N27 which is the main route for taking North - South and South - North through the city centre.

There's endless moaning about Mahon Point being built right beside the SRR. Due to it being built there, the Mahon Interchange is regularly blocked up with traffic. No way should the shopping centre have been built there.

O'Callaghan is now calling for this centre to be built right beside the N27. The area of the N27 around Albert Quay is already probably the area of the city centre with the heaviest traffic. It can be terrible there at times. You throw that event centre catering for 6,000 people into the mix and you are asking for some serious trouble.

The Beamish site will be accessed very differently. The parking of cars will be a lot more spread out and access believe it or not won't be as congestion inducing as at the other site as people will park and walk from a greater distance. South Main Street is not very prone to heavy traffic also.

There's also a health and safety issue that needs be considered, 6000 people spilling out out to what is essentially the Link Road?

Even in the plans for the docklands development there was to be another bridge built further down the river from there.

Thepikapi

Why don't they just build an underground car park like the one for the O2, it kinda makes sense. I mean if they don't then either location will just be as clogged as a doughnut enthusiast's artery!

AugustusMinimus

BUNK1982 wrote: »

There's also a health and safety issue that needs be considered, 6000 people spilling out out to what is essentially the Link Road?

IMO, the area simply isn't suited to having that events centres. The N27 literally bisects the area. You'll have the city centre on one side and everyone trying to cross the N27 to get to the events centre.

I originally thought the event centre was to go on the derelict site which was once part of Albert Street Railway station, but this is going to be an office development. The actual location is even worse.

BUNK1982 wrote: »

Even in the plans for the docklands development there was to be another bridge built further down the river from there.

Indeed, the first problem with the docklands development would be the increased traffic on both Michael Collins and Eamon De Valera bridges. The only solution was to build a new bridge, going from somewhere near the skew bridge on the Lower Glanmire Road over to the docklands.

AugustusMinimus

Thepikapi wrote: »

Why don't they just build an underground car park like the one for the O2, it kinda makes sense. I mean if they don't then either location will just be as clogged as a doughnut enthusiast's artery!

I would imagine that users of the East Link toll bridge in Dublin must curse every single time there's an event on in the O2. Clogs the whole area. And the O2 in Dublin isn't in near as bad an area as O'Callaghans proposed development in Cork.

BUNK1982

[QUOTE=Indeed, the first problem with the docklands development would be the increased traffic on both Michael Collins and Eamon De Valera bridges. The only solution was to build a new bridge, going from somewhere near the skew bridge on the Lower Glanmire Road over to the docklands.[/QUOTE]

Traffic in Cork City is becoming a vicious circle - people need a car to get around because the public transport infrastructure is so poor, more cars mean more roads required so there's less investment in public transport. More roads mean it becomes more convenient to drive everywhere so people live in the suburbs and developers build huge shopping centres and offices next to these new roads to attract punters.

Hopefully the conference centre and Alber Quay office development will buck the trend.

AugustusMinimus

Did I read this thread right by the way ? That the O'Callaghan proposal is to build an O2 Dublin style amphitheatre while the Beamish development will be a basketball court style arena ?

If this is the case, a basketball style arena can accommodate a whole range of different activities (concerts, sporting events etc etc). Much more bang for your buck.

Thepikapi

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Did I read this thread right by the way ? That the O'Callaghan proposal is to build an O2 Dublin style amphitheatre while the Beamish development will be a basketball court style arena ?

If this is the case, a basketball style arena can accommodate a whole range of different activities (concerts, sporting events etc etc). Much more bang for your buck.

Nah, the beamish would be like the O2, and the O'Callaghan's site will be like the grand canal.

zetalambda

IIRC the decision on where the event center would be built was to be announced in May. Were already half way through so hopefully we'll find out soon...

evilivor

zetalambda wrote: »

IIRC the decision on where the event center would be built was to be announced in May. Were already half way through so hopefully we'll find out soon...

Mischievous article in The Sunday Times this week.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1409537.ece

Michael..

I hope to god this doesn't drag on.

The people of Cork have waited long enough for an event centre. There has been many false dawns over the years but it seems that we are within touching distance.

I prefer the the Albert Quay proposal but to be honest I really couldn't care who gets the money as long as we get an event centre capable of attracting conferences, concerts, exhibitions etc.

T'would be a great boost for the city. Fingers crossed we get a decision sooner rather than later.

Rhys Essien

The decision on where this will be built,will be announced in 6 weeks time, according to Simon Coveney on the radio today.

rebs23

Rhys Essien wrote: »

The decision on where this will be built,will be announced in 6 weeks time, according to Simon Coveney on the radio today.

Oh please just announce it. I couldn't care where at this stage once it gets built with no further messing.

AugustusMinimus

Really hoping that Beamish Brewery gets this development. Albert Quay is just plain wrong on a number of grounds IMO.

Bacchus

rebs23 wrote: »

Oh please just announce it. I couldn't care where at this stage once it gets built with no further messing.

I'm getting to this point too. Would just like a decision made... so we can pick it apart and say why it's wrong

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Really hoping that Beamish Brewery gets this development. Albert Quay is just plain wrong on a number of grounds IMO.

Beamish is wrong on a number of grounds too. Both sites have pros and cons. I've leaned towards the Albert Quay one myself in this thread. I've a feeling the Beamish one will get the nod though. Hopefully once we know the site we can focus on the pros and look forward to having such an events centre in town

Pitcairn

The consultants are still listening to both proposals and have asked both sides for more information.
Because both applications already have planning permission the debate is not around which venue is the best for traffic or parking.
Instead it is focused on who will operate the venues, how can they guarantee there will be regular concerts and conferences, how much State investment the venues will need and what kind of value the State will receive from its investment.
Once the consultants make a recommendation next month they will pass it onto to the City Manager. However Cork doesn't have a City Manager. They are interviewing for the position at the moment. That will likely take until the end of next month.

The new City Council is likely to be as divided on which venue should be picked as much as everyone on the board here. So there may be some councillors kicking up a stink over one venue being picked over the other.

I reckon there is still a way to go on this.

Rhys Essien

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

Bacchus

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

Never heard this before. I thought both sites were offering pretty much the same facilities. What extra is in the Beamish proposal that isn't in the Albert Quay one?

evilivor

Bacchus wrote: »

Never heard this before. I thought both sites were offering pretty much the same facilities. What extra is in the Beamish proposal that isn't in the Albert Quay one?

The city/state are only investing in a multi-event centre - the rest is mere window dressing.

zetalambda

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I still dont get why people are comparing the two sites like for like.

The Albert Quay site is just the event centre.The Beamish site is a whole new city block effectively,which an event centre will be part of.To me,I dont even know what they need to decide.Its a no brainer.

I have a feeling that if the Beamish site is picked, Heineken and Bam will build the event center but it could be years before any of the other elements of the proposal are completed.