Sam Bennett - no same day spoilers

Dodge

Kelly won 5 tour stages but I think only one of them was a sprint. The rest from breakaways or reduced bunch

He won 3 of his green jerseys without winning a stage in that years race

He won a grand tour and obviously excelled in the classics. He was a great all rounder, but he wasn’t really a sprinter

breezy1985

swarlb wrote: »

No need to be so defensive. One thing is certain, you will be old one day, and trust me, you will 'look back'.
Sam Bennett as I have said, is clearly a very competent professional, but he needs that one 'classic' win to give himself a confidence boost. Once he gets that under his belt, he can relax, and other victories will follow easier.
On more than one occasion Kelly has commented that the race win he remembers the most was his first classic, and if you look back at a photo of that Tour of Lombardy win (there I go, looking back again) you can barely see who's wheel is in front.
There's a lot more of the year left... who knows, some golfer could win the prize, or maybe a snooker player.... possibly darts ..... it's not a given.

Sorry but don't come on here with this "kids these days" are useless cause they didn't cycle bikes carved out of limestone or whatever you rode and then expect people to stay quiet. Especially when you start by admitting you are posting something that will upset people.

Sprinters don't win green jerseys and Lombardy anymore and rarely win any monument even MSR. It's a different sport now

breezy1985

Dodge wrote: »

Kelly won 5 tour stages but I think only one of them was a sprint. The rest from breakaways or reduced bunch

He won 3 of his green jerseys without winning a stage in that years race

He won a grand tour and obviously excelled in the classics. He was a great all rounder, but he wasn’t really a sprinter

The points distribution has changed a fair bit over the years too to favour flat stage winners. The old TdF was more like the current Vuelta green

Dodge

breezy1985 wrote: »

The points distribution has changed a fair bit over the years too to favour flat stage winners. The old TdF was more like the current Vuelta green

Yeah. To be fair Kelly won a lot of ‘intermediate sprint’ jerseys too. I’m not suggesting he wasn’t quick! The racing was different though.

For my money the greatest sprinter ever is Cavendish and he only one green jersey. Mario Cippolini was frighteningly fast and gave up after 2 stage wins when he hit the first hill

DonegalBay

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

breezy1985

DonegalBay wrote: »

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

Anything that happens in the TdF ranks highly due to the fact it dwarfs other events which is why the whole country has heard of Sam Bennett and no one cared when Dan Martin won multiple monuments.
Winning the TdF and Giro involves being on top of your game for 42 races so I wouldn't say it's the same as the Grand National and Cheltenham in the slightest
Also there are no race radios at the WC

DonegalBay

Dodge wrote: »

Yeah. To be fair Kelly won a lot of ‘intermediate sprint’ jerseys too. I’m not suggesting he wasn’t quick! The racing was different though.

For my money the greatest sprinter ever is Cavendish and he only one green jersey. Mario Cippolini was frighteningly fast and gave up after 2 stage wins when he hit the first hill

I would have Cipo over Cav any day based purely on who he faced off against in his career. Van Poppel, Ludwig, Museeuw, Abdujaparov, Nelissen, Zabel, Steels, Freire, McEwen, Petacchi over the course of Cipos career. The fact that McEwen, Petacchi, Zabel and Freire were still counted among the top sprinters in their mid to late 30s shows how week that generation of sprinters were when Cavendish arrived. Once Greipel got away from Cav, Kittel arrived and maybe Sagan, Cavs dominance vanished.

DonegalBay

breezy1985 wrote: »

Anything that happens in the TdF ranks highly due to the fact it dwarfs other events which is why the whole country has heard of Sam Bennett and no one cared when Dan Martin won multiple monuments.
Winning the TdF and Giro involves being on top of your game for 42 races so I wouldn't say it's the same as the Grand National and Cheltenham in the slightest
Also there are no race radios at the WC

Yeah I said it was due to Joe Public knowing about the Tour, but the average cycling fan knows where the real importance of Monuments v Green Jersey lies.
In terms of prestige, Winning what Blackmore won is equal to the Tour and Giro. Is winning the Worlds, RVV or P-R less prestigious than a Vuelta or Giro just because they are one day races?
And even if there were no radios, having a whole team kill a race is hardly endearing.

breezy1985

DonegalBay wrote: »

Yeah I said it was due to Joe Public knowing about the Tour, but the average cycling fan knows where the real importance of Monuments v Green Jersey lies.
In terms of prestige, Winning what Blackmore won is equal to the Tour and Giro. Is winning the Worlds, RVV or P-R less prestigious than a Vuelta or Giro just because they are one day races?
And even if there were no radios, having a whole team kill a race is hardly endearing.

Endearing it isn't I agree there that it makes for pretty boring racing. It's the cycling equivalent of Mourinhios Chelsea or tiki taka football. Boring, smothering but effective.

Seeing as we are on endearing I find nothing endearing about jumping up and down on an animals back while whipping it

DonegalBay

breezy1985 wrote: »

Endearing it isn't I agree there that it makes for pretty boring racing. It's the cycling equivalent of Mourinhios Chelsea or tiki taka football. Boring, smothering but effective.

Seeing as we are on endearing I find nothing endearing about jumping up and down on an animals back while whipping it

I have zero interest in horse racing as well, but it is what it is and falls under the 'sports' bracket, like many other debatable 'sports' motorsports, darts, golf, snooker, cricket etc, etc. But as that is the criteria I would say Rachel's Blackmore's achievements this year simply dwarfs what Sam achieved. From what I have heard and seen of her as well, I like her attitude and personality.

breezy1985

DonegalBay wrote: »

I have zero interest in horse racing as well, but it is what it is and falls under the 'sports' bracket, like many other debatable 'sports' motorsports, darts, golf, snooker, cricket etc, etc. But as that is the criteria I would say Rachel's Blackmore's achievements this year simply dwarfs what Sam achieved. From what I have heard and seen of her as well, I like her attitude and personality.

This year certainly well so far at least and the only big one left for Sam is green and it wasn't enough for last year so probably still won't be.

at1withmyself

Look if we're ever going to get to the end of this (ridiculous) comparison then it can only be resolved one way;

Sam Vs. Rachel 1 mile drag race and to entice them then the winner gets crowned RTE sports person of the year!

breezy1985

at1withmyself wrote: »

Look if we're ever going to get to the end of this (ridiculous) comparison then it can only be resolved one way;

Sam Vs. Rachel 1 mile drag race and to entice them then the winner gets crowned RTE sports person of the year!

Tommy Voekler already tried it

dublin49

I DOUBT EITHER SAM OR RACHEL WERE INSPIRED AT AN EARLY AGE BY THE THOUGHT OF WINNING SPORTS PERSONALITY OF YEAR

happytramp

DonegalBay wrote: »

Seriously, would winning the Green Jersey even rank in the Top 10 most prestigious achievements in cycling in any given year. 3 GT, Worlds, M-SR, RVV, PR, L-B-L, SB and Lom all way ahead. I personally would put some of the Semi-Classics, Week long stage races and GT podium finishers ahead of it as well. Might scape into my Top 20. The only reason it has any prestige is because it is part of Le Tour monster which Joe Public has some awareness off. I admired Bennett for the fight he had to make to win the Tour and fair play to him, i don't know much about horse racing but isnt what Rachel Blackmore has achieved the equivilant of winning Le Tour and the Giro in one season(Yes I know it involves the horse as well but many of Bennetts win were due to his team as well).

Then again, I don't much care for sprinters in general. Still thinks its a travesty that the likes of Cipo and Cav have World Titles, having had their teams shut down the entire race for them to sprint for 200m or less at the end. Maybe before the advent of sprint trains, race radios and TVs in the cars, I might have had more respect for sprinters. The Basque Country race last week was glorious, not a bunch sprint in sight and far more interesting for it.

You're not seriously suggesting a strade bianche on your palmares is more impressive than a green jersey at the tour are you?.... There's a very strong argument for it being ahead of lombardia too.

dublin49

happytramp wrote: »

You're not seriously suggesting a strade bianche on your palmares is more impressive than a green jersey at the tour are you?.... There's a very strong argument for it being ahead of lombardia too.

I would have thought Kellys fame is more linked to his Classics wins than his green jerseys ? no?

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

I would have thought Kellys fame is more linked to his Classics wins than his green jerseys ? no?

It's more the fact he was a bit of everything. I would say Sagan is really the only guy who compares nowadays

dublin49

I heard Kirby saying that Wiggins said he would swap his TDF for a Paris Roubaix.

Tell me how

breezy1985 wrote: »

It's more the fact he was a bit of everything. I would say Sagan is really the only guy who compares nowadays

MvDP, early days for him but man he looks promising.

retalivity

dublin49 wrote: »

I heard Kirby saying that Wiggins said he would swap his TDF for a Paris Roubaix.

Wiggins talks some sh1te, if he told me the sky was blue id still open the curtains

Ceepo

Tell me how wrote: »

MvDP, early days for him but man he looks promising.

As does van Aert.

happytramp

dublin49 wrote: »

I heard Kirby saying that Wiggins said he would swap his TDF for a Paris Roubaix.

Wiggins is a bit of a weird cycling nerd so I can imagine him saying something like that.... I actually like that about him... Being late to the eurosport post tour stage show because he wanted to cheer on nibali crossing the line and then talking about how chuffed he was to have caught his discarded bidion.

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

Anything that happens in the TdF ranks highly due to the fact it dwarfs other events which is why the whole country has heard of Sam Bennett and no one cared when Dan Martin won multiple monuments.
Winning the TdF and Giro involves being on top of your game for 42 races so I wouldn't say it's the same as the Grand National and Cheltenham in the slightest
Also there are no race radios at the WC

If I remember (or more accurately, don't remember) did Martin Irvine even get a mention on the 6.1 news when he won the world Champs on the track.

dublin49 wrote: »

I DOUBT EITHER SAM OR RACHEL WERE INSPIRED AT AN EARLY AGE BY THE THOUGHT OF WINNING SPORTS PERSONALITY OF YEAR

To be fair most reactions to SPOTY here are "we don't have one, you are thinking of the BBC", "I always forget about that", or "you mean the All Stars".

DonegalBay

happytramp wrote: »

You're not seriously suggesting a strade bianche on your palmares is more impressive than a green jersey at the tour are you?.... There's a very strong argument for it being ahead of lombardia too.

I absolutely am and would double, triple or even quadruple down on that. The green jersey is a secondary competition to give something for the sprinters to aim at. Strade Bianche has already reached iconic status within the sport and a quick look at the field assembled this year tells the story of its prestige among the pros, the excitement of fans as well is way higher than for any green jersey contest. Maybe there has been more interest recently in the Green jersey because Bennett has won it, but most years I couldn't care less about the Green Jersey, but am psyched every single time for Strade Bianche.

dublin49

DonegalBay wrote: »

I absolutely am and would double, triple or even quadruple down on that. The green jersey is a secondary competition to give something for the sprinters to aim at. Strade Bianche has already reached iconic status within the sport and a quick look at the field assembled this year tells the story of its prestige among the pros, the excitement of fans as well is way higher than for any green jersey contest. Maybe there has been more interest recently in the Green jersey because Bennett has won it, but most years I couldn't care less about the Green Jersey, but am psyched every single time for Strade Bianche.

I suppose the cyclists might agree with you ,especially if it was a Paris Roubaix ,but a team owner or sponsor might not as 3 weeks coverage of your guy even if it is lesser coverage than the general Classification leader would be deemed of high value to the team.

DonegalBay

dublin49 wrote: »

I suppose the cyclists might agree with you ,especially if it was a Paris Roubaix ,but a team owner or sponsor might not as 3 weeks coverage of your guy even if it is lesser coverage than the general Classification leader would be deemed of high value to the team.

Yeah, but that can be applied to anything Tour related due to how outsized it is compared to anything else in cycling. Even having a guy in yellow at the Tour for 10 days would likely bring more coverage for sponsors than a RVV or PR victory, but what has more prestige in the palmares of a cyclist?

happytramp

DonegalBay wrote: »

I absolutely am and would double, triple or even quadruple down on that. The green jersey is a secondary competition to give something for the sprinters to aim at. Strade Bianche has already reached iconic status within the sport and a quick look at the field assembled this year tells the story of its prestige among the pros, the excitement of fans as well is way higher than for any green jersey contest. Maybe there has been more interest recently in the Green jersey because Bennett has won it, but most years I couldn't care less about the Green Jersey, but am psyched every single time for Strade Bianche.

I get that your more excited about strade bianche, i love it too and have ridden L'eroica a couple of times..... But historically it doesn't come close to the prestige of a green jersey at the tour.

DonegalBay

happytramp wrote: »

I get that your more excited about strade bianche, i love it too and have ridden L'eroica a couple of times..... But historically it doesn't come close to the prestige of a green jersey at the tour.

There was a time the Polka-dot jersey was quite prestigious, but it has been totally devalued over time and nobody really cares about it anymore. Whilst the green jersey has not dropped as far, I don't think it holds the value it once did. Go on almost any serious cycling site and guess which garners more interest among fans? Also the level of interest from the pros themselves suggest SB is more of a mark to have on their palmares. The race for green was exciting last year, but most years its a dud and is an afterthought for most cycling fans. Maybe its ripe for a poll?

happytramp

DonegalBay wrote: »

There was a time the Polka-dot jersey was quite prestigious, but it has been totally devalued over time and nobody really cares about it anymore. Whilst the green jersey has not dropped as far, I don't think it holds the value it once did. Go on almost any serious cycling site and guess which garners more interest among fans? Also the level of interest from the pros themselves suggest SB is more of a mark to have on their palmares. The race for green was exciting last year, but most years its a dud and is an afterthought for most cycling fans. Maybe its ripe for a poll?

I'm specifically talking about prestige... Not current excitement from fans. The race is barely a decade old and who knows if it'll even be around in 20 years time.

happytramp

Anyway, it's just a difference of opinion...

More importantly, when's sam racing again? I'm getting addicted to all the winning.