chance of a lifetime "King's Ametyst"

Deenie123

fergal.b wrote: »

I wonder are we at the stage now where an iPad or tablet will do the work of most marine equipment something like this looks good http://raymarine.kuluvalley.com/view/o5kaE6FdBXD?t=mo&autoPlay=true&AppProperties.PlayerShowEmbedButton=false and there are a lot of other good apps about, might be worth thinking about




.

Still can't beat paper charts in some respects. I wouldn't put my life in the hands of apple!

I've found before that some plotters are a bit notorious for not showing underwater hazards unless you're zoomed right in. Makes me wonder if this played a part in the recent grounding of the VO65...? On the video released, it certainly seems to show the reef disappearing entirely once zoomed out at all. That's pure speculation, but electronic plotters are not something I'm quite ready to trust my life to just yet...

I'd be equally wary of getting rid of tried and tested instruments

copper12

For someone like me’ just starting out’ the options available’ are too much for me to comprehend.
The cost of some of this gear; is more that I have spent to date; on Coe Na Mara.
The minimum requirements’ needed to sale safely is what I require.
Compass. depth sounder. and speed indicator. that’s all that was installed in this boat.

Do I need any more, and could technology provide me with the rest.
The internet; the amount of free information available to download.
Forums like the boards, people like yourself ‘Fergal ;Pedro’ and others; who freely give there advise’ and knowledge.
Without it I would probably be still scraping paint off the hull.
All the advise I have that I have been given; I am grateful for’ it has gotten me this far.
i suppose the question is; what do I need in order to go sailing .

Sadler32

I do think technology is great. There is so much out there. I do think there is an over reliance on it though.

I had an interesting trip home from the Isle of man this summer. About half way between Douglas and Dublin, all my electrics died.
Had a decision to make, keep going with the wind to a place I knew or turn back and head the shorter distance against the wind to a place I didnt know so well.

I tried to start the engine but wouldnt kick. So i decided to save what was left of the juice. Got the solar charger out and connected it to the battery, and continued to my home port. The issue turned out to be a faulty alternator and hadnt been charging the batteries properly.
The solar panel charged the battery enough that when I got to port I could start the engine.

I sailed the rest of that trip using a magnetic compass, sextant and guessing my speed. It worked out well, and once I got in sight of land, I was able to adjust my course to head home. I also had a hand held vhf, in case I needed to contact anyone close by.

I work at sea and we have electronic charts, no paper ones. I dont like it at all. You are correct fergal b, it doesnt show some hazards at greater scales, it is down to the navigator to pick the correct scale for the area being navigated. Which is fine unless you want to zoom out a little, to see whats ahead, and sometimes in doing so, the hazard disappears from the chart screen.. I dont like it at all.....

Copper12 in answer to your question, there isnt really a definitive answer. .
It depends on what you want to do when you get sailing.
In my opinion, and its only my opinion, so I would be interested to hear other peoples views.
Your speed and depth and compass, Will tell you how much water you have and how fast your going, (helps with dead reconning) and you will be able to follow your planned route using your compass.
It all about what you want. Do you want all the gadgets or be back to basics.
A Vhf, either portable of fixed, to communicate with other boats, might be an advantage (but certs etc are required).

What you have is a great starting point and it can always be built on, as your experience grows and your requirements change.

On my boat I have an AIS, GPS, fixed VHF, handheld chart plotter, handheld vhf, Navtex, autopilot, wind speed and direction, boat speed, compass etc. Out of the electrics I only really use the vhf, speed and depth. For longer cruising the gps and AIS to see the ships in the irish sea.

I suppose All you really need to go sailing is that amazing boat of yours and a set of sails.... See what your requirements are once your on the water.......

pedroeibar1

Hi Copper,
With a compass, log/distance run, boatspeed and depth indicator you have the very basics, enough to get by. IMO having too many electronic instruments is a distraction and more things to break down. If you are doing 'manual' navigation you always have a good idea of where you are, not always the case if you just look at electronics periodically.
Over and above what you have, a combined windspeed/wind direction unit would be nice as it is useful for night sailing and helps prevent a pain in the neck from looking up at the burgee all the time.
Excluding all the fancy GPS & plotter stuff, for coastal navigation I would want :-
The compass to be properly swung (google swinging a compass) with its deviation card.
The appropriate paper chart(s), preferably laminated (one for route planning, other(s) for close-in navigation).
A cruising guide (the Irish Cruising Club ones, two volumes S&W and E&N Coasts, are good, but there are others), these give all harbour/anchorage details and lots of other useful stuff.
A book of tide tables
A set of dividers and a parallel ruler, pencils & erasers.
A good handbearing compass to plot a fix using triangulation.
Not necessary but nice would be a handheld radio direction finder (not great on the S coast as the radio fixes are a bit 'linear'.)
Finally, before you start the wiring make sure you obtain marine grade wire and don't be tempted to run anything through the bilges. I think I still have an old book on boat wiring and will be back with my books at Christmas – I’ll have a look and send you a PM.

copper12

So what you’re trying to say is that the sat nav; out of the car’ and john clese, and telling me I have reached my distenation is out of the question.:o
Thanks for the response gentlemen, there’s a lot for me to think about.
I put the NASA marine depth and speed log across a battery. they lit up; and seem to be ok’ so pulled or rather pushed the transducer see the attached photo. It may not have been working.
So I need a new one
I am probably concerning my self with things that in time I will learn.
But since I like to plan ahead; I should invest in the best equipment possible; not necessarily the dearest.
Top of the mast; a good wind vane’ wind speed indicator’ connected to an instrument at the helm.
A good quality depth sounder. And speed indicator, vhf antenna, mast head lights everything else can be fitter without either demasting or having to haul the boat out of the water.
Have I missed anything?:rolleyes:

Sadler32

Hi Copper12.

Nice work, shes looking well.

I think the individual parts are available from nasa. As for installing everything from the start. If you are happy with what you need and budget allows that certainly is the easiest thing to do.
But it can always be done in the future when you know what you want and when the boat comes out for maintainence or the winter...

I do believe your right and the most expensive stuff is not always the best. But do look at how easily parts are to get etc...

pedroeibar1

Nice photos Copper, she's looking great!
You've got it; a log will give you speed and distance travelled - the speed will help you calculate leeway and also indicate estimated time of arrival, the distance covered will show you how far you are along your 'line'. The depthsounder is very useful to check a position on a chart (you get a fix and then crosscheck the depth on the chart with the depth shown on the sounder). Windspeed & wind direction are useful but are less important than the others.
(and dismasting is something very nasty, I know you mean 'un-stepping' the mast.:)

copper12

Evening all
I have made a start, on the forward bulkheads.
It was a lot easier than I expected, I must be getting the hang of it.
here a few of the old bulk head photos and the new ones.
I am still leaning towards putting the chain plates on the outside, because of the damage done by water ingress, from where the old chain plates, went true the decking.
I might remove the screws, that will be visible, and replace them with brass crews, or copper nails,
I wait and see how they look

copper12

new bulkhead

Deenie123

Can't wait to see it finished, very exciting

pedroeibar1

Hi Copper,
Looking at those photos a couple of comments – if the screws are not stainless you will get oxidization staining. The 2x4’s – did you soak them in preservative? A lot can happen to untreated wood in a confined space that is subject to damp. (Fergal would be best on this for comment.) Also, have you considered the wiring loom? If you are going to route everything through the ceilingspace and “drop down” the wiring you might consider using some pre-bored holes in the bulkheads with string to pull the wires through? ...thinking of a reading light over a bunk.
Rs
P.

copper12

Pedro they are stainless
The screws used to date below the water line; have been either bronze or copper rivets, above the water line stainless.
Inside stainless with the odd recycled copper nail.
I went stone made during the week and spent a few bob
A second hand Quicksilver Inflatable Dinghy
For 190€
I have come across four 100ah deep cycle batteries’ so I invested in an Infinitum Battery Desulphator.
And seeing as a I was on a roll;:eek: a Shakespeare YHK Stainless steel Hawk whip Antenna with wind indicator & PL-259 c.
I also gave the forward and aft section, a coat of paint, it gave me the chance to examine the ribs, and decided to fit four sister ribs.

copper12

Evening all
Just thought I would give an update.
In the last post Pedro asked me if I had given the bulk head a coat of wood preserver
As the frame 3x2 is made of oak I didn’t think it necessary.
With the good weather I have been working on the outside hull and decking.
I am about ready to fit a toe rail; over the Christmas, I have been trimming and cutting along the edges of the edge plank. I have the toe rail ready to scarf .
I fitted two new oak bollards. Basically I copied the originals’ and fitted them the same way.
I just have to drill holes in either one, and fit a stainless bar.
I have given them a coat of my own varnish.
A mixture of boiled linseed oil’ ordinary varnish’ white sprits’ and antique pine wood stain.
I was given this recipe buy a painter; 15 years ago, when I built my house, and it has stood the test of time.
I get two to tree years between coats.
I have also primed the seams below the water line, and will fill them over the Christmas period; hopefully.
I hope the weather stays reasonable, and I get something done.
At least now I can work on the inside if it get’s too bad
Here are a few photos it explains thing better than me

copper12

just two more

fergal.b

It cane out very well fair play to you, it's a bit nerve wracking cutting a hole that size in the deck :eek:

copper12

I don’t know witch job was the hardest

pedroeibar1

Wait until Ikea comes to the PRC!!
Happy Christmas Copper, and thanks for keeping us interested, amused and envious during 2014!
P

copper12

I had to get up and look after Dustin anyway
I have been warned not to even look at the boat to day
So happy Christmas
I have fitted one toe rail section to the starboard side
15ft section made up two scarf’s resorcinol glue
I will leave it there for a couple of days then remove it and bed it properly
It should hold its shape and be easier to fit
I will try the port side tomorrow

copper12

one or two more

copper12

Evening all
Finished the starboard side toe rail, almost the finished the port side, but a joint broke, most likely due to the temperature, and amount of time, I gave it to cure. The curve swings nearly tree feet ove its length When I have finished these, I will leave them for a week or so, to settle, and the remove them, and bed them properly.
It’s been cold the least few nights,
I have also made a start on the forward opening, well’ is the youngfella that’s started it, I’m just the gofer, you know yourself’ go for this’ hand me that, hold the dopey end of the measuring tape .:mad:
I got feed up of that, and made a start on the end of the transom
It will take a day or two to finish the hatch, and then I will post a few pictures.
I thought I would have gotten a bit more done, over the last few days, but because of the frost, I can’t get up on on the scaffold until midday. It better than rain n I suppose
Hope you all had a good Christmas .

copper12

Evening all
The young lad is still working on the forward hatch.
He said it would take him a day or two; day three and he’s still at it.:rolleyes:
I could have told him it would take at least four. If not five days.
But’ me being a quite old goat, kept my mouth shut, and left him at it.:cool:
In fairness to him, it’s not all his fault’ it’s taking so long because’ he keeps office hours.
Before he starts, he has to be interrogated by his mother, and then fed; she’s shovelling food into him like theirs no tomorrow.
It’s been bitter cold; and with the frost, he can’t start until eleven or twelve.
I been putting the finishing touches to the transom and the toe rail; in between being fed; if he’s gets it so do I.

pedroeibar1

Looking at that toe-rail, Copper, have you considered putting a few gaps in it to allow the water run off rather than be channelled aft?

Also, on the electronics, I have that book I mentioned a while back, it’s “The Complete Book of Boat Electronics “ by Ernest Zadig – it’s a bit dated, from the mid 1980’s - you are welcome to have it if you think it would help. Contents are
• Pt. 1: The world of electronics.
1. Electronics aboard boats
• 2. The ubiquitous electron
• 3. The transistor and the diode
• 4. Circuit components
• 5. The vanishing vacuum tube.
Pt. 2: Basic electronic circuits.
. Tuners
• 7. Oscillators
• 8. Rectifiers and power supplies
• 9. Pulse techniques
• 10. Electric filters
• 11. Amplifiers: radio and audio.
Pt. 3: Electronic construction.
12. Hard wiring
• 13. Printed circuits
• 14. Integrated circuits
• 15. Calculators for navigation.
Pt. 4: Boat electronic equipment.
16. Receivers, transmitters and transceivers
• 17. Depth sounders and their use
• 18. Direction finders and their use
• 19. Loran and its use
• 20. Radar and its use
• 21. Auto pilots
• 22. Satellite navigation
• 23. Hailers, alarms and accessories.
Pt. 5: Installation and maintenance.
• 24. Antennas, grounds and transmission lines
• 25. Lightning and static
• 26. Power for electronic
• 26 Safe wiring practices
• 28. Electronic maintenance.
Pt. 6: Testing and repairing.
29. Trouble shooting
• 30. Test equipment and its use
• 31. Operating procedures
• 32. Television afloat
• 33. Hi-fi on board.

copper12

Thanks for the offer Pedro
As for the gaps’ I will put a few in’ when it comes time’ to permanently fix the toe rail.
I am hoping that the rail will hold its shape’ if so, then I can cut them out’ before I set the rail.
If it doesn’t hold its shape; then I will have to cut them out; when it’s fixed.
I have a book, I went stone mad before Christmas, and bought the Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual and Boats Electrical System, I should have enough in these, thanks again for the offer.
Pedro have you any recommendation, as to what type of rope’ I should go for.
I have been looking at a few different types, and have come to the conclusion, that a good quality; 10 or 12mm braided polypropylene’ 100mt roll should go a long way

pedroeibar1

copper12 wrote: »

Pedro have you any recommendation, as to what type of rope’ I should go for.
I have been looking at a few different types, and have come to the conclusion, that a good quality; 10 or 12mm braided polypropylene’ 100mt roll should go a long way

I think we are at the next stage …..rigging? Have you decided on where the halyards will run? Inside or outside the mast? As you intend to go long distance eventually, for the halyards I would favour a wire to rope splice, as the wear & tear factor would be better. Others more used to modern ropes – Spectra and Dyneema for example might have suggestions on using them. (I know nothing of the new-fangled techy stuff!)


IMO an important question is colour coding – if you want someone to do something in a hurry it is not very useful to shout “It’s the ##### blue one!” when all are blue. It also would be useful to use the same colour codes for both masts. You have a lot of cordage to buy!
Main and mizzen halyards
Jib/genoa halyard
Staysail halyard
Spinnaker halyard
Mizzen staysail halyard
Sheets for all the above.
Main boom topping lift
Mizzen boom topping lift
Spinnaker pole uphaul and downhauls.
Boom down-hauls Main & Mizzen
Mooring lines
Anchor warp and chain.
Bell rope



The actual diameter and weight necessary for each will be determined by your sail size. Bear in mind the diameter when buying sheaves for the mast head/foot over which the halyards must run, same for fairlead sizes and also winches (if you get self-tailing ones.) Make sure you allow enough for the various bits to run back to the cockpit…


Lots of other folk here should have some more ideas.

neris

Id recommend dynema for halyards. Wire is outdated at this stage. I used new dynema for my runners last summer instead of wire and just as strong. A good thick dynema main & jib halyard will help with sail tension and shape (sailmakers recommendation). If you are buying all new halyards and sheets see if you can get measurements for all rope and expected thickness then get your self online and price up on rigging sites in the UK before you go anywhere near an Irish rigging shop. Ive used Jimmy Green Marine for a new halyard and checkstay lines and including delivery was good service and very competitive.

It might also be worth planning a trip to Beaulie boat jumble in April. Ive not been but going over, Mate im going with went before with his dad and they got some great stuff including a decent used spinnaker

tinski07

Ken got rigging for his mirror offshore a few years back from UK yachting supplies that were quite reasonable, They have an ebay shop, For Teals standing rigging we went to Harry Louis, I think he is Kinsale based but he copied the old shrouds for us then came and swaged the ends for us when we had the mast stepped in the yard.

copper12

Evening all
I managed to get a bit done today.
It’s just as well the weather had been bad over the last couple of days.
I had a dose of the flu; so spent the last couple of days; drinking hot toddy’s and watching box sets, of downtown abbey.
Anyway’ I removed the forward sections of the toe rail’ in order to bed them permanently
As I had hoped; that held there shape, enough’ for me to put in some drain holes’ two either side.
The aft section should only need one cut out, either side.
There will be smaller ones’ either side of the sail track’ so I think that should be enough.
I have been playing around with the running rigging; anyone who offers advice, will need the patience of a saint; as this is completely new to me.
Attached is a drawing, showing the halyards’ I think I require, plus topping lift, and boom track.
These are the main load bearing ropes; the rest would be sheets and guide ropes?
I will take a few measurements over the next couple of days and add them.
Thank again for all the advice

neris

Outhaul, Spnni pole up & down hauls. If your using it lines for furling systems aswell

spaceHopper

On the boat i crew on the main halyard doubles as the topping lift might help if you need to cut one rope out. You might never use a spinnaker but being able to pole out a head sail for downwind sailing could be usefull so rig for a spinnaker

pedroeibar1

spaceHopper wrote: »

On the boat i crew on the main halyard doubles as the topping lift might help if you need to cut one rope out. You might never use a spinnaker but being able to pole out a head sail for downwind sailing could be usefull so rig for a spinnaker

Not a good idea when the boom is heavy; what holds the boom up when reefing? or in the period between dropping the main and hanking on the halyard?

(Apols Copper , what made me think she was a ketch? )