Chemtrails debunked.

Daithi 1 · 05-10-2013 10:50pm #1

With chemtrail believers you often hear "skies wernt like this when I was young", "contrails dissipate with a few minutes" etc etc.

Well, I been doing some research on contrails in the archives and came up with some pretty damning evidence to prove that contrails have always been there, spread out, covered the sky, blotted out the sun and affected the climate.

This from 1958.

Torakx · 06-10-2013 2:56am

What if chemtrail look exactly the same as contrails?
I always thought there was a pretty good chance there are chemtrails in other countries intermitently.Not neccesarily everywhere.

I will probably always leave that opinion open for myself, simply because of all the fooked up stuff humans do to each other, that is just a scratch on the surface.

Daithi 1 · 06-10-2013 8:17am

I would imaging they would look similar but most chemy believers that I have encountered will say they are a recent phenomenon. That the skies were never like this before.
I have presented this to them (contrail archive) from movies and they say that the NWO use people to go back and edit old movies, adding trails into them to normalize chemtrails. There are several vids on youtube about that.
http://www.metabunk.org/threads/pre-1995-persistent-contrail-archive.487/

Now that I have presented this new evidence of news archives from google, I am deemed a government paid shill with fake propaganda.

Torakx · 06-10-2013 11:56am

Yeah people can get caught up defending their beliefs and forget about simple ideas.
I don't try to build complicated frameworks to support my ideas.
But I can't prove they are not putting crap into the contrails either.
Very agnostic of me haha

To take my idea further, maybe the whole new age movement, which I believe to be hijacked, is designed to make people think chemtrails do this and that, apart from a regular contrail, so everyone forgets it might be possible they all look exactly the same.

hansfrei · 06-10-2013 12:02pm

When did test on long range radar and tests on barium to boost the range.of radar begin OP?

returnNull · 06-10-2013 12:24pm

The thing with chemtrails is that it doesnt really add up imho.There would be better and more cost effective ways to get chemicals into people.

The chemicals would be so diluted after being despensed at such heights.Theres a reason crop duster planes fly so low over crops.For the very same reason that the planes that were dumping that nasty stuff,agent orange(iirc made by those lovely people at monsanto)in vietnam had to fly low.

Daithi 1 · 06-10-2013 2:12pm

Another thing with chems is.. Why would people think that only chems spread out and contrails don't ? After aluminium is a metal and contrails (water vapor) freezes and expands and low temperatures..
I definitely think it's hijacked too. I have encountered several of the main chemy guys in groups and debated with them. Max Bliss in particuliar, he's the head of skywatch-uk, who blocked me when I nailed him on several points. I know that he doesnt actually believe the chem myth but pushes it for financial gain, selling t-shirts and the like. WW2 dogfighters leaving persistent contrails, as if they could be spraying chemicals while in battle. Contrails avoidance (suppression) testing done in the 40's also, there are videos of this on youtube and it's documented on google.

I was also blocked from a group by this nutjob for posting some of the above articles. This is the typical reaction from these chemys when confronted with evidence ...

Torakx · 06-10-2013 2:49pm

Stop being a shill Daithi we all know you make millions debunking this

Torakx · 06-10-2013 3:25pm

hansfrei wrote: »

When did test on long range radar and tests on barium to boost the range.of radar begin OP?

Wouldn't mind hearing a discussion on that one too.
Maybe there are a lot of reasons for spreading unnatural particles in the air.
If I got your meaining that is.

jh79 · 06-10-2013 3:34pm

Torakx wrote: »

Wouldn't mind hearing a discussion on that one too.
Maybe there are a lot of reasons for spreading unnatural particles in the air.
If I got your meaining that is.

What makes barium unnatural it is found throughout the universe?

Daithi 1 · 06-10-2013 3:49pm

A friend sent me this. They are like a cult. The Cult leader Banned me but also removed the offending evidence so as to control the information available to his members......... This is very common. Psychpaths, theyre really doing a number on her..:pac:

Torakx · 06-10-2013 4:03pm

jh79 wrote: »

What makes barium unnatural it is found throughout the universe?

Thanks, I didn't realise Barium was a natural occurance within our atmosphere.

christ on a bike! · 07-10-2013 12:27pm

what's the name of that Facebook group?

Daithi 1 · 07-10-2013 2:43pm

Globalskywatch. Russ Tanner is the cult leader.

o1s1n · 07-10-2013 2:50pm

Daithi 1 wrote: »

Globalskywatch. Russ Tanner is the cult leader.

Just had a look there. Christ on a bike are those people nuts! Crazy paranoia over clouds and contrails. Mind boggling.

Daithi 1 · 07-10-2013 3:35pm

Yup. It's absolutely nutz. No sky or cloud is normal anymore and any rational explanation for anything is gov propaganda and anyone who says any different is a paid shill.
They are probably making themselves sick.

Torakx · 07-10-2013 6:23pm

Well not really that nuts when you consider religious beliefs and how much a hold that has on the majority of the worlds population.
It's just another form of that.Something I drifted towards after leaving a hardcore religion myself.
Took a while for me to find my feet again.
Unfortunately some people never think past their fears.
Actually I left that religion because I was so i'll physically, I actually rathered die in a hail of fire than carry on as is.
Some people have a fairly comfy life with only mild depression and never have the chance I did, to do a full reset.
Having a nervous breakdown can be the best thing in the world

I have a lot of sympathy for these people who are trapped psychologically.
Any conflict with their beliefs, will lead to more reinforcement of said beliefs.
I have lead one or two people out of situations like that with religion, and it can only be done by having their respect and setting an example...which is near impossible online.

Daithi 1 · 07-10-2013 9:06pm

Well, I think it's the same in some ways, different in some. The religious factor is thousands of years old, most people are born into and those who aren't never usually get into it. Believing in God is not necessarily a bad thing. But believing that world governments are exterminating you from the air, the air is poisoned, is another thing all together.
As far as I know the chemtrail thing only came into play in the 1995, it was something of a viral campaign for a book.. I can dig out a link if your interested in reading the full story.
But the other thing is it can be completely proven as a hoax in a matter of minutes, unlike God.
I feel sorry for them in a way to, hence why I was trying to share good information. But they won't listen to anything.

Anyway, heres a link some of you might find interesting.

"HOW TO RUN A CONTRAIL SCARE FOR FUN AND PROFIT"
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/scarehow.html

Torakx · 07-10-2013 9:48pm

It is an ancient trait, to seek or fear a higher power than ourselves.Right back before religion.Thats the mechanic at play.Your fighting hundreds of thousands of years of evolution there hehe
The Ego and beliefs attached to it(to protect the mind).Breaking down the belief, I ..believe(lol) is also a process of breaking down the Ego.
Something I try to do regularly now. yada yada more mystical crap i'm sure most see this as, haha.

Thats a cool website you linked there.
Seems like a very decent attempt!
It could be tailored more to invite the people who need it most.But yeah great idea overall.

"[SIZE=+1]Your prime weapon is fear, your prime target those most vulnerable to fear and paralyzation, thus the harder you can hype any aspect to promote fear the better."

[/SIZE]Very primal that

Highlights also how I left religion too ^^
Giving up fear and accepting the finality of death. Destruction of the Ego(well the religious part I had at that time).

Sorry I veer off topic sometimes too much!
If I had the time to help people like this.
I would create a chemtrail info site. Earnestly seek others to learn from them and together(albeit with some direction) we would all very slowly start to come to the realisation that we can't quite prove it for sure and that it's maybe not 100%, but probably likely.

Later I would start to evolve my theory and eventually have to be agnostic about it and admit it's possibly not what I first thought, but it's possible, however considering the evidence "we found as a group" I am not going to worry about it as much.
Baby steps I suppose.

But who has a heart that big and time to spare?

Daithi 1 · 07-10-2013 10:29pm

There is a site called contrailscience which does exactly that. Of course, when you link a chemy to that site, prepare to get the usual load of gov shill abuse.

As it happens, I listened an interview involving Joe Rogan and the owner of contrail science Mick West. It's a great and funny interview about general conspiracies but start off with chemtrails. I must admit, as Rogan is regarded quite highly in the truth movement I couldn't help but get some satisfaction to hear him and Mick slate most popular conspiracies. Needless to say, Rogan is no longer highly regarded there.

I dont expect anyone to listen to the whole 2.5 hours. But the chemtrail bit starts @ 14 mins and well worth a listen.:)

http://vimeo.com/73659395

Daithi 1 · 08-10-2013 1:59am

Little fluffy clouds :eek: :pac:

Daithi 1 · 10-10-2013 8:06am

:eek: wait :eek:

This is the chem leader ...

Daithi 1 · 11-10-2013 12:19pm

Daithi 1 · 11-10-2013 7:45pm

Raising awareness or making profits ???

Daithi 1 · 11-10-2013 7:49pm

Easy to understand explanation on persistent contrails (cirrus clouds) and their affect on the climate..

http://wakenet.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/2nd_major_WN3E-Workshop/presentations/WN3E_Session_special_Burkhardt.pdf

Daithi 1 · 12-10-2013 8:55pm

"Chembows", the latest craze in chemtrails.

Water/Ice crystals are refractive, bending the suns light, making a rainbow. Aluminium/Barium isn't refractive and can't make rainbows.

Daithi 1 · 12-10-2013 11:03pm

"Chemtrail grids" explained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DSM7RS094c

Daithi 1 · 25-10-2013 6:40pm

Because the idea that contrails dissipate and chemtrails spread across the sky, has well and truly been debunked. The chemtrail scam artists must come up with new ideas to prolong the chemtrail myth..

How Persistent Aerosol Plumes are Being Changed to Short Non-Persistent Plumes To Fool the Public

Those spraying chemtrails would like nothing more than for you to believe that short, non-persistent plumes coming out of jets are harmless contrails. If they convince you of this, then you will ignore these plumes and allow them to spray you without objection, and this is exactly what they want. Beware of those who claim that short plumes emitted by aircraft are "contrails".

http://globalskywatch.com/stories/my-chemtrail-story/chemtrail-information/plumes-change.html#.Umq58nCfji4

One wonders if this is the fact, why are they rewriting old news articles and editing and re-releasing old movies "to normalize chemtrails". And why do we still see regular persistent contrails daily..

Daithi 1 · 25-10-2013 11:56pm

They edited old movies and secretly re~released them. "They" may have even snuk into your house and switched you copy with the edited version, just to normalise chemtrails.

This is whats required for the theory to work.

Daithi 1 · 27-10-2013 11:36pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27QakO6VJc

Esel · 28-10-2013 5:05am

Daithi 1 wrote: »

Raising awareness or making profits ???

I would have thought that the vast majority of people would want to depart with their hard-earned income? Parting with it would be a different story...

Any time I see an error like this (where hard-earned income, or legal tender is concerned), my scamometer goes into the red.

I'm sure there are enough grifters and marks out there to keep the turbines spinning though.

Torakx · 28-10-2013 5:58pm

Esel wrote: »

I would have thought that the vast majority of people would want to depart with their hard-earned income? Parting with it would be a different story...

Any time I see an error like this (where hard-earned income, or legal tender is concerned), my scamometer goes into the red.

I'm sure there are enough grifters and marks out there to keep the turbines spinning though.

Never underestimate the power of selling a clean conscience

super_furry · 28-10-2013 6:03pm

Has there ever been any genuine credible evidence that chemtrails exist in the conspiracy theory model? I mean given the numbers of people who would need to be involved - from the people producing the chemicals to those loading them into the planes - has anyone ever come forward and blown the whistle?

Torakx · 28-10-2013 6:12pm

In theory, if you were doing this at the top level.
Why would you want the people putting the fuel into the plane to know whats in the fuel?
Do they check for tings like Barium when testing the fuel before it goes in?
I really don't know, but would guess they have protocls to test for something.

I think smart people with unique ideas look for ways to do the impossible. Not ways how they can't do it.
With CT's I also search for those ways, instead of searching for all the many ways it may not be possible.. thats already overed by debunkers and skeptics.
I use their research too.

Skeptics and CT'ers would be a powerfull force if they could learn to work together.
Unfortunately thats very rare, so for myself coming from the CT "side" I am trying to learn to be more skeptical to create a abalnce.Would nice to have some friendly help now and then though.
All a learnign process, takes years to find a balance.

Daithi 1 · 29-10-2013 12:32am

super_furry wrote: »

Has there ever been any genuine credible evidence that chemtrails exist in the conspiracy theory model? I mean given the numbers of people who would need to be involved - from the people producing the chemicals to those loading them into the planes - has anyone ever come forward and blown the whistle?

No evidence that I can find. Some youtube videos come up from time to time claiming proof, trails coming from the tail or a jet or the wingtips or the classic chemtrail on/off theory, all are quite easily debunked.
Truth is there doesn't need to be any proof for people to believe it.
If there were metals in the fuel it would cause problems in the engine burners so that can be ruled out too...
A few people apparently claiming to be whistle blowers have approached Russ Tanner (global skywatch), though I have never listened to them. I'd imagine they are scam artists as is he.

Daithi 1 · 29-10-2013 2:32pm

"Don't feed the trolls". Ie. Don't speak to anyone who is not a believer, giving no opportunity for new information to affect our beliefs. A safe haven for believers to have "fun".:rolleyes:

Torakx · 29-10-2013 6:25pm

Ahhhh.. reminds me of the good old days with a certain cult lol
These people need new role models though, not conflict.

Daithi 1 · 30-10-2013 1:46pm

Research flights - DLR investigates the effect of contrails and volcanic emissions on the climate.

What influence do contrails and volcanic emissions have on the climate? Scientists from the German Aerospace Center (Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt; DLR) tackled this question by conducting 12 research flights with the Falcon research aircraft as part of the Concert (Contrail and Cirrus Experiment) project. These extensive measurements will allow the verification of existing simulations and calculations.

Aircraft emit sulphuric acid aerosols and soot particles. At temperatures below 42 degrees Celsius, ice can form on these particles and create visible vapour trails. These clouds of tiny ice crystals can survive for several hours under damp, cold conditions, with contrail cirrus clouds forming at heights of between 8000 and 12,000 metres. Climate researchers see these man-made cirrus clouds and their connection to aviation as highly significant. "There are signs that contrail cirrus clouds have just as great an impact on climate as the aircraft's carbon dioxide emissions," explains Project Leader Christiane Voigt from the DLR Institute of Atmospheric Physics in Oberpfaffenhofen. If this is true, in the future airlines could avoid areas with heightened cirrus presence or vary their altitude. "However, commercial jets changing their altitude would emit even more carbon dioxide – so we need to look at the overall picture," says Voigt.

'Young' and 'aged' contrails

Besides the 'old' contrail cirrus clouds, the researchers' investigations have also turned to studying vapour trails that are just a few minutes old: "We collected information about the quantity and size of the ice crystals in contrails because they hold the key to the climatic impact," explains Voigt. When measuring the 'young' contrails, DLR test pilots flew into the vapour trail of a Boeing 777 and closely followed the aircraft for up to 15 minutes - a manoeuvre that requires the utmost concentration and a very robust aircraft. "We cooperated closely with the German air traffic control service (Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH; DFS), and the European Air Traffic Control Centre, EUROCONTROL," says Voigt. In an unprecedented experiment, the scientists also carried out measurements on aircraft cirrus clouds that were simultaneously imaged by a satellite. "For the first time, we can compare data collected from contrail cirrus clouds by a satellite with detailed measurements taken by the Falcon from within the cloud itself," explains Christiane Voigt.

Measuring volcanic emissions

The Concert project also involved conducting short measurement flights over the Italian volcano Mount Etna, which was mildly active shortly before the flight on 29 September 2011. The Falcon conducted flights through the volcanic plume - the emission cloud discharged by the volcano. "We examined the chemical evolution of particles after an eruption. Volcanoes discharge large quantities of halogens such as bromine and chlorine, which have a substantial impact on the ozone layer. Etna emits gas at very regular intervals - and, up to now, these emissions have been tested only a handful of times," says Voigt. This basic research is necessary; the aim is to gain a better understanding of how these particles react and to gather more information about volcanic emissions and their impact on the climate. The last research flight took place on 30 September 2011; now the team is analysing the data, which will take about six months.

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151_read-1590/year-all/#gallery/3404

Esel · 30-10-2013 11:35pm

^ Do you have any opinion to express yourself?

Copy and paste does not really cut it...

Daithi 1 · 30-10-2013 11:46pm

I expressed an opinion the previous post. What about yerself ?

Esel · 31-10-2013 12:14am

I am a non-believer in chemtrails.

weisses · 31-10-2013 12:48pm

I thought it was common knowledge that contrails are effecting climate ? (global dimming)

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 1:23pm

weisses wrote: »

I thought it was common knowledge that contrails are effecting climate ? (global dimming)

Well yeah. Buy Tanner from Skywatch is telling people that jet turbo fans do not have the ability to leave contrails and never did. So, the global dimming is the conspiracy. Most chemtrail believers will say they only started occurring since the 90's, which is why the sky was never like it is now, when they were younger. When I presented the archive news articles to him, he said "well, that's how long they have been spraying us." When I presented them to Max Bliss (another leader), he said "those articles are not original and have been edited by shills." Same with any older movie that have contrails in the background. The more proof that is shown that contrails have always been there and are a natural occurrence of jet turbo fans, the more elaborate the conspiracy theory has to get.

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 1:27pm

Here is a book on "cloud studies" from 1905. A good read for and chemtrail / HAARP believer. It contains all the same cloud variations and patterns that we see today.

http://archive.org/stream/cu31924002961203#page/n257/mode/2up

Torakx · 31-10-2013 1:33pm

Agree with the comment on the effect of contrails as they are.
Apparently they cause the earths atmosphere to heat up at certain times and cool down at other times, with a slight leaning towards raising the overall temperature.
But then I haven't checked the science behind that.
Just something I read or saw somewhere.

Hhmm what if the airlines discovered a way to use water or steam or something like that to propell the planes?

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 1:36pm

Yup, thats the science. Keeps the planet cooler during the day by blocking the sun and keeps heat in at night.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=climate-effects-of-contra

Torakx wrote: »

Agree with the comment on the effect of contrails as they are.
Apparently they cause the earths atmosphere to heat up at certain times and cool down at other times, with a slight leaning towards raising the overall temperature.
But then I haven't checked the science behind that.
Just something I read or saw somewhere.

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 5:52pm

Torakx wrote: »

Hhmm what if the airlines discovered a way to use water or steam or something like that to propell the planes?

Only just noticed this part of your post now.

There have been several ways of avoiding contrails in the past but I think they were to expensive to go worldwide and only used on certain types of recon/stealth planes during wartime. Here is a shot clip of a test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwngzZEJOVI

And here is some more information on alternative techniques, from chemicals to laser beams.

Contrail Avoidance and Mitigation Techniques
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-avoidance-and-mitigation-techniques/

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 6:04pm

You might also find this interesting. A bottle of super cooled water, it basically doesnt freeze over until it's disturbed. This can happen in the atmosphere also and can spread contrails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGFKG6a9wrc

And another example of what happens warm moisture in a freezing environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoqOLll2xr0

And here is an short documentary teaser in retaliation to "what in the world are they spraying".

Are They Spraying? Teaser 7.5 Minutes. Sorry, not available on yt yet.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=505905559499292

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 7:13pm

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lkVlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mpMNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3016,658814&dq=contrails&hl=en

Daithi 1 · 31-10-2013 7:21pm

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TVNYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5643,1072397&dq=jet+trails&hl=en

Torakx · 31-10-2013 7:41pm

Ah.. now you have your "in".
The middle ground

Can protest the "pollution" of the skies as it were, but in a more solid supported way.
Something people from both sides of an arguement could get behind...while reserving their other ideas.
Nice one.
Intersting to see newspapers from the 50's too.
Was even reading one on the Russian flank and Iran there.

Chemtrails debunked.

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