Bodley 2013/14

Echecs

Not all the methods they employ in Eastern Europe are commendable and should be implanted here. I worked as a badminton coach for 16 long years, so I know a thing or two about motivating people, etc. etc. I've been playing competitive chess for 45 years, and I've started when you haven't been born yet. I also worked as a creative writing tutor, so I know a thing or two about developing people's creativity. I studies psychology, and hold a PhD in biomedical science. Maybe it is because of my background that I am absolutely terrified of the methods you are using in your club, and I had every right to voice my opinion on this chess forum.

cdeb

If you have a problem with a post - any post, including moderators' - report it. That goes for any forum anywhere. I don't see any verbal abuse in my posts.

(I do see you accusing me of not respecting your dignity (what does that even mean?! Devoid of any solid connotations, it can only be verbal abuse) and I do see you saying you were "terrified" by my people in Benildus' actions against a junior, which is a fairly risky area to go with no evidence whatsoever. I overlooked it at the time so as not to derail the argument, but if you want to fight fire with fire...)

A player's rating is absolutely valid - it's an indication of their strength, and absolutely stronger players' views can hold more weight than weaker players'. A stronger player knows more about the game pretty much by definition. And the views of a stronger player than me (i.e. a 2000+) would absolutely trump mine...except that here, we're in agreement.

I'm not interested in your qualifications. You haven't shown why any of them are relevant.

You seem to have spat out the dummy because I dared to disagree with you. You've repeatedly misrepresented what I've said (repeating this idea that we put pressure on players to perform, though I've refuted that point by saying I'd prefer a player to lose than take an early draw) You've repeatedly ignored the specific points I've made why juniors (indeed, any player starting off and looking to improve) should absolutely be discouraged from early draws. You've used personal attacks (You're playing chess longer than me - hooray! That's not actually relevant; we're both playing longer than Magnus Carlsen) to try to argue that your views are de facto better than mine, simply because their yours.

If that's the way you debate things, that's your call, but I can't imagine it being missed on this - or any - forum. If you want to address the points I've made, you're more than welcome to.

Airbender

Posting things like this like this can alienate people and drive them away. And - lo and behold - this has been done by a moderator. After that, who would want to be on this forum?

Sparks

Me for one. I've seen the alternatives. This is better. And you're not quite understanding how this "ban" is in place either; it's not a case of an edict from on high delivered with jackboots and tazers, and I've not seen an unhappy kid in the club yet. This mischaracterisation is damn unfair to the people in the club.

Airbender

Why am I not surprised that Sparks wants to be on here? Look at them: Sparks (St. Benildus club member), Cdeb (St. Benildus club member), Mikhail (St. Benildus club member), Ciaran (St. Benildus club member), the latter two not very vocal, to their credit... They all are on here, and they have time for this kind of activities - lucky ones! St. Benildus United - against criticism?

Sparks

Airbender wrote: »

Why am I not surprised that Sparks wants to be on here? Look at them: Sparks (St. Benildus club member)

The reason I'd prefer to be on here has a lot more to do with the level of abuse and bull**** in the other Irish chess forums I looked at, where people get horribly abused for (ironically) not being rated over 2400 but still daring to disagree with people who are rated higher than them.

Honestly, this place is just better for stopping that kind of poop. Example - here's a disagreement between a poster and a mod. Does the poster get banned? Get their posts edited to be amusing ****e? Get fake accounts created in their name to post nonsense? Or get bullied in real life away from the forum? No. There's a disagreement, the poster said he'd had enough and threw out the dummy, before ever reporting the dispute through the well-established means boards has for resolving that kind of thing (and yes, mods have been corrected, or even de-modded in the past when they were out of line, it's not some yes-man procedure).

As to the actual post, by the way, there is an argument that a very highly rated player isn't going to be the best at coaching, btw - it's not only an old idea in every other sport out there, but was put forward by Michael Maza in his 400 points in 400 days essay (Google is your friend). The thing is, he was saying that a random GM wouldn't automatically be a good coach just because of their rating -- not that a highly rated player couldn't be a good coach if they worked at it enough, which the coaches in Benildus have, so accusing them of bullying kids into playing in a certain way when that's just not what happens is downright wrong, and trying to say it's some sort of club ganging up thing is just playing the man and not the ball.

Airbender

This is not what the poster said, you are twisting his words. What happened was that you and your mates forced him out, in a very rude manner. He didn't deserve it, and I am sure, he wasn't the only one who was treated like that. Playing the man and not the ball? Tell it to your own Cdeb, this sounds like the tactics he employs. He was talking to me two months ago, and he wasn't very polite either, if at all. The bottom line is, St. Benildus members seem to be always right on here, even if they are wrong. This forum can get as nasty as any other chess forum, so I don't really know if there's anything special about it. That's why I don't appear on here too often. Was just passing by, now walking away... Enjoy yourselves.

Sparks

That's a load of auld ad hominem and you know it airbender

cdeb

Airbender - the points I made are waiting for you - or Echecs or anyone - to directly address. If you want to do so, please do. But I really don't see why I should have to take accusations of bullying juniors with no evidence whatsoever.

Myrddin

Ok folks, this isn't the wild west, & we do have rules here. Please keep all discussion on thread relevant to the thread, constructive, & civil at all times are some of our primary rules. I see these have been thrown to the wind last night & over some recent posts.

Incase anyone needs a refresher, here's the forum charter for everyone's perusal. Please read it & ensure you're familiar with it. I'd like to see this thread getting back to its original topic as of now please. If anyone has a problem with any post, please report the post for it to be looked at. Not only do the forum moderators see these reports, but the three category moderators will see them too, & ensure that if action is warranted, it will be of the correct nature.

So from right now, please get back on topic & abide by the forum rules. If you cannot manage this, it won't be a problem for you any longer because you'll find your access here revoked.

EnPassant

Regarding agreeing draws early, many Grandmaster tournaments now forbid draw offers before move 30, except in the case of 3-fold repetition or stalemate. I would imagine that this practice will gradually filter down to other tournaments. I not be surprised to see a motion at the next LCU AGM proposing that it be introduced for some of the league divisions or to see it introduced for next year's Irish Championship. Up to 1952, it was actually an official FIDE rule that you could not offer a draw before move 30.

Regarding putting pressure on players, I remember many years ago getting a book which suggested that young and improving players should alternate between easy and difficult tournaments - for example, playing in a section above your rating at one tournament and in your normal rating section the next. It always seemed like good advice to me.

midajoh

Are Gonzaga and Blanchardstown playing today by any chance?

cdeb

Doubt it; they've a few players in at the Leinster junior championships.

midajoh

Any results from tonights games?

checknraise

Playing games to a finish is one of the key areas for improving at chess. I actually don't think I could recommend it enough.

It is far more common for junior players to agree early draws and it is understandable they are trying to keep their ratings up with their friends, get on teams and don't have experience of playing certain positions. I can guarantee you tho when it does all click together and it usually does for most junior players the guy who wasn't afraid of losing will show massive improvement and move ahead of their friends.

It comes down to why we play chess and I think everybody wants to get to a high as rating as possible, win tournaments, improve and learn as much about the game as possible in that order. The problem is the order has to be in the reverse and by agreeing early draws someone is significantly stagnating their improvement as every chess game is a opportunity to learn.

cdeb

midajoh wrote: »

Any results from tonights games?

Naomh Barróg B v Bray was postponed as Naomh Barróg couldn't accommodate three games in their venue.

However, Naomh Barróg A v Gonzaga then ended up a walkover for Naomh Barróg as Gonzaga never appeared.

midajoh

cdeb wrote: »

Naomh Barróg B v Bray was postponed as Naomh Barróg couldn't accommodate three games in their venue.

However, Naomh Barróg A v Gonzaga then ended up a walkover for Naomh Barróg as Gonzaga never appeared.

What's happening with Gonzaga? they still have to play Blanchardstown or will they give another walkover.I play for Drogheda so i guess it's good news for us.We play Skerries on Saturday so lets see what happens there.

cdeb

I presume that, given school was only back on Monday, the captain either forgot or didn't have time to arrange a team.

You'd imagine, if the latter, that they'd have let Naomh Barróg know, so I'd say they just forgot. It can happen.

They'll play Blanch alright. Huge advantage for Drogheda though - if nothing else, conceding a walkover is supposed to be automatic relegation, so there may be a question mark over whether Gonzaga can actually be promoted having conceded a walkover. That's if they catch Drogheda of course.

Edit - league rule 5.8 says -

Teams which default a match will be relegated one division the following season except in the lowest division, where the team may be scratched from the league the following season, unless the club submits a written explanation acceptable to the divisional controller.

So it doesn't cover a team defaulting a match and still winning promotion (not too surprisingly). But if automatic relegation is the normal rule, it would appear that technically, promotion should be completely out. (By similar logic, Trinity are already relegated from the BA, having defaulted two of their four games so far)

Obviously I'm sure that wouldn't be a particularly satisfactory way for Drogheda to get promoted. But it does make things interesting in more ways than one.

TheKeenMachine

The Gonzaga Naomh Barrog match also will be rescheduled. I stupidly thought the match was next week and didn't get a team together. Thanks to Des Martin for honourably offering a reschedule with a great touch of class.

midajoh

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

The Gonzaga Naomh Barrog match also will be rescheduled. I stupidly thought the match was next week and didn't get a team together. Thanks to Des Martin for honourably offering a reschedule with a great touch of class.

Fair play to the man very good sportsmanship.Guess that will keep the pressure on us to get as many good results possible

cdeb

Benildus A 2½-1½ Dún Laoghaire is a latest score now, with the final game to be played next week.

Means we're guaranteed to have the highest score in the games between what are likely to be the top 3. After that, it comes down to matching everyone else's scores against the others.

Sounds so easy put like that!

Myrddin

prey wrote: »

yes - nice to see and a stark contrast to the behaviour of your armstrong team

Keep it civil please, less of the personal comments.

midajoh

Any more results to report of?

L1m1tless

Curragh A Wicklow 3-0 so far

Irish Warrior

Phibsboro ½ - 4½ Inchicore

cdeb

CowboyDreams wrote: »

Curragh A Wicklow 3-0 so far

Sorry - what?

This isn't a backwards typo?

Bloody hell, that's blown the Bodley open.

L1m1tless

That should have read 0-3

cdeb

Aw.

L1m1tless

Sorry about that

Chess_Coach

Still to be confirmed - Enniscorthy - Rathmines 4 - 1