Motor tax reforms

Yes but you see the warmists will tell you that in 100 years bla bla bla so in other words you won't be around to prove them wrong !

Look at the change the sun is going through now ? we could be heading into a far far cooler time over the next 50-200 years.

Say the 90's and 00's were pretty warm, they are not so warm now, globally the temps are falling since the peak of 1998,

You see if you look at any satellite temp graph since 1979 you'll see the trend up with up and down spikes due to volcanoes etc but with a general trend up, fair enough no one denies this. However over the last 10 years or so this is coming down but to the warmists the trend is still up because you'll need at least 30 years odd data to make a trend, see ?

Look at this



Now remember the headlines in the papers and on the news that by the year 2000 Children are just not going to know what snow is , such was the hysteria after 1998 the warmest year on record.

What these same warmists can't account for however is why the temps are coming down, even if slightly if Co2 is the cause of the warming ?

You see as Co2 levels have gone up so have the temps so they concluded that yes, Co2 must be the cause.

Remember them saying the Artic would be ice free by last year I think it was ? and now it'h higher than it has been for a few years. And if global warming is a global thing then why has Antarctic ice increased greatly ? ah yes, they don't talk about all the ice down there!

YbFocus

Interesting stuff alright, I have little time for all the global warming guff anyway!

Scortho

YbFocus wrote: »

Interesting stuff alright, I have little time for all the global warming guff anyway!

its no longer called global warming....its now called climate change

Sam Kade

Scortho wrote: »

its no longer called global warming....its now called climate change

That's because the warming wasn't working out for them so they changed it :rolleyes:

Scortho

Scortho wrote: »

its no longer called global warming....its now called climate change

It was always climate change, the media were responsible for the global warming.

spuddy

OP/Daily Mailer here again...

There are two general consensuses here:
1) abolishing motor tax in favour of an additional tax on fuel is the best idea (the "polluter" pays principle)
2) point 1) will never happen for political reasons

To cut to the chase, we will be suffering the existing system for many years to come, like it or lump it.

The only thing which I see happening is further rate increases, I don't want that, I want efficiencies out of the existing system to offset the need to take more money out of my pocket.

Has anyone got any practical ideas to do this?
EG: Print your own tax disc
PRO: State saves money in printing & posting them / CON: easier to forge (?)

TheBrewMeister

CO2 can't be a "greenhouse gas" because it sinks. Measurable concentrations do not exist after a certain elevation - hence why trees cant grow on the tops of tall mountains - they cant breathe.

Anyway, I'm curious why you guys are paying 1500 a year in Ireland.

We have to pay for a feck ton more roads here in the states and I only pay $70.00 a year. $20.00 of that is to pay for our bull****e emissions stations. Also, Our avg petrol price right now is $3.50/us gal.

You're govt is ripping you guys the fcuk off!

Scortho

spuddy wrote: »

OP/Daily Mailer here again...

There are two general consensuses here:
1) abolishing motor tax in favour of an additional tax on fuel is the best idea (the "polluter" pays principle)
2) point 1) will never happen for political reasons

To cut to the chase, we will be suffering the existing system for many years to come, like it or lump it.

The only thing which I see happening is further rate increases, I don't want that, I want efficiencies out of the existing system to offset the need to take more money out of my pocket.

Has anyone got any practical ideas to do this?
EG: Print your own tax disc
PRO: State saves money in printing & posting them / CON: easier to forge (?)

most efficient way would be through the post office network.
Print our own tax disk would possibly lead to fraud.

YbFocus

It is but one major reason is our population compared to your country. You can raise massive revenue across your population that we just can't.

Now our country is still making a disaster of what it is presently doing, but it'll never be that cheap! Sadly

TheBrewMeister

YbFocus wrote: »

It is but one major reason is our population compared to your country. You can raise massive revenue across your population that we just can't.

Now our country is still making a disaster of what it is presently doing, but it'll never be that cheap! Sadly

One would think, though, that with a lower population; less area and roads, they wouldn't need as much revenue.

For what you're payin, Ireland should have roads of gold!

YbFocus

Oh yeah I agree, but nothing in Ireland is managed even with a degree of efficiency, the money is wasted pointlessly by plans that weren't thought out etc.
What I would give for €70 tax I currently pay €1494 or just a shade over 2k dollars!

TheBrewMeister

YbFocus wrote: »

Oh yeah I agree, but nothing in Ireland is managed even with a degree of efficiency, the money is wasted pointlessly by plans that weren't thought out etc.
What I would give for €70 tax I currently pay €1494 or just a shade over 2k dollars!

That's insane to me. I cant even imagine what theyre doing with all that revenue. Seems like theft to me.

I drive a 4.0L truck, so Im guessing i'd be payin the 1494 euros?

Scortho

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

That's insane to me. I cant even imagine what theyre doing with all that revenue. Seems like theft to me.

I drive a 4.0L truck, so Im guessing i'd be payin the 1494 euros?

1800.

We have indefinite social welfare and housing, free hospital care(75 quid a night) and free college education save for a 2.5k registration fee.
We also provide a grant system to those from less well off families to go to college, be accomadated and have there living expenses covered.

Compare that to what a student in the US would pay (my course would be around 160k a year) or what youd pay in health insurance and you can see where the money is going.
We've gone from being a laissez faire state to a welfare one.
It sucks balls if you work as more than 50% gets taken.

Id much prefer the american system

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

That's insane to me. I cant even imagine what theyre doing with all that revenue. Seems like theft to me.

I drive a 4.0L truck, so Im guessing i'd be payin the 1494 euros?

To tax on cc it would be 1809 p/a, on emissions it would be 2200 p/a, or if taxed commercially (like my 7.3L ford F350 ) it's 333 p/a

YbFocus

Actually I'm in the second highest band with a 3.0L BMW, you would be paying €1800 ($2400)!

And don't forget if your car is newer than 2008 your vehicle is based on Co2 emmisions and not the CC of the engine. You'd more than likely be in the top one with that machine. Paying €2,200 (circa $3,000)

Way crazier than you imagine. Then our diesel is €1.5 a litre or €6.75 a gallon.
$9 a gallon!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

Our avg petrol price right now is $3.50/us gal.

You're govt is ripping you guys the fcuk off!

We pay over double that. Yet, our base price before taxes is probably similar. Over 50% of the fuel prices here are taxes.

BailMeOut

unkel wrote: »

I know a much cheaper system!



And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

will not work unless NI does the same thing. Having a big difference in fuel taxes between here and NI will result in a fuel smuggling on a huge scale. Fill a 20,000l fuel tanker in the north and drive it over border and you make a very quick €10 grand if the tax difference was just 50c. Its the same issue with illegal cigarettes,

MetzgerMeister

Let's also keep in mind that normal US petrol is low octane, they have petrol with octane ratings in the 80's AFAIK. Our minimum is 95 octane which makes it more expensive anyway. Also, America is much more automotively sympathetic due to the huge industry there whereas there's none of that in Ireland.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that our taxes and fuel prices are so high.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Let's also keep in mind that normal US petrol is low octane, they have petrol with octane ratings in the 80's AFAIK. Our minimum is 95 octane which makes it more expensive anyway. Also, America is much more automotively sympathetic due to the huge industry there whereas there's none of that in Ireland.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that our taxes and fuel prices are so high.

But our fuel prices are so high because practically €1 of the €1.60+ for a liter of petrol here is tax of one kind or another.

TheBrewMeister

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

Anyway, I'm curious why you guys are paying 1500 a year in Ireland.

We have to pay for a feck ton more roads here in the states and I only pay $70.00 a year. $20.00 of that is to pay for our bull****e emissions stations. Also, Our avg petrol price right now is $3.50/us gal.

You're govt is ripping you guys the fcuk off!

Haha "feck" you're becoming more Irish even before you get here!

Well you see, as you know, we're a small Island population of 4.5 million V U.S 300 odd million, so a lot less to go into the pot. And 450,000 unemployed. Less big companies to pay tax etc .

Now if the E.U was a United states we'd have 550 million V 4.5 million.

BailMeOut

You got to remember that the US government spends 100's of billions of tax dollars each year on energy security in the middle east. The true cost and tax on a gallon of USA petrol is many times what they pay at the pump and I have read some estimates where the real cost is as high as $15/gallon.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

BailMeOut wrote: »

You got to remember that the US government spends 100's of billions of tax dollars each year on energy security in the middle east. The true cost and tax on a gallon of USA petrol is many times what they pay at the pump and I have read some estimates where the real cost is as high as $15/gallon.

Link/Source?

TheBrewMeister

Deleted User wrote: »

Haha "feck" you're becoming more Irish even before you get here!


Now if the E.U was a United states we'd have 550 million V 4.5 million.

Haha, yeah I guess. Language rubs off on me pretty easy.

I noticed there's a lot of propaganda over there about "Ireland needs Europe" and what not. Obviously, I don't know the extent of it, but I do remember reading about when you guys joined the EU, you had the strongest economy of all the countries involved.

Were you paying the same rates before joining? I mean, inflation aside...

TheBrewMeister

e60 535d wrote: »

Link/Source?

He's referring to the amount of money we spend on our military. And he's right. We spend Trillions of $$$ every year "securing the world's oil supply."

Let's not forget the blood cost for this resource.

BailMeOut

e60 535d wrote: »

Link/Source?

There are so many out there (google 'real cost of a gallon of gasoline' but I know if I quoted some they would be shot down as some loony left propaganda with an agenda. I am sure they are all exaggerated but with nearly a trillion dollars spent on military each year and we all know middle east energy security makes up a large part of it and this money comes from US tax payers.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

He's referring to the amount of money we spend on our military. And he's right. We spend Trillions of $$$ every year "securing the world's oil supply."

Let's not forget the blood cost for this resource.

Ah so it is all theoretical.
Since, of course, there is no "war for oil" going on, just "defending" the US.:pac:

Scortho

TheBrewMeister wrote: »

Haha, yeah I guess. Language rubs off on me pretty easy.

I noticed there's a lot of propaganda over there about "Ireland needs Europe" and what not. Obviously, I don't know the extent of it, but I do remember reading about when you guys joined the EU, you had the strongest economy of all the countries involved.

Were you paying the same rates before joining? I mean, inflation aside...

When we joined the EU we had one of the worst economies in the EU if not the worst.
We didn't even have a motorway for christs sake.:P

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Scortho wrote: »

When we joined the EU we had one of the worst economies in the EU if not the worst.
We didn't even have a motorway for christs sake.:P

Ireland needs the EU now more than the EU needs ireland. Thats how it was is '73 and has been ever since.

If we left the EU, it would be catastrophic for all of us. I know I would have to emigrate as my job (multinational) would be moved elsewhere.

Think post WW2 germany. Thats how we would be.

Scortho

e60 535d wrote: »

Ireland needs the EU now more than the EU needs ireland. Thats how it was is '73 and has been ever since.

If we left the EU, it would be catastrophic for all of us. I know I would have to emigrate as my job (multinational) would be moved elsewhere.

Think post WW2 germany. Thats how we would be.

Post ww2 west Germany not so bad.
Post ww1 Germany was really ****.
I agree. we definitely need the EU.
Hopefully one day itll get rid of the parish pump politics that goes on.

TheBrewMeister

e60 535d wrote: »

Ah so it is all theoretical.
Since, of course, there is no "war for oil" going on, just "defending" the US.:pac:

Right.

I, for one, am soooo glad my tax $$$ goes to bombing democracy into people.