Motor tax reforms

spuddy

I came across an interesting government proposal about reforming motor taxation.

Noteworthy parts:

introducing online vehicle registration services

abolishing the paper tax disc

closing most tax offices ("recognise that we are now clearly in a digital world")

using post offices for any remaining face-to-face transations

redeploying and/or making redundant civil servants

Alas, these recommendations are for NI. However they got me thinking....
In these times of austerity, what of the above should we be considering?

Ken.

Sack civil servants. Not a fücking chance.

MetzgerMeister

If they were going to reform motor tax, they should make the CC system fairer and reduce the cost.

Misleading thread title is misleading.

spuddy

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

If they were going to reform motor tax, they should make the CC system fairer and reduce the cost.

Misleading thread title is misleading.

Is the title that misleading? Really wasn't meant to be, I'd like to see how we could reform motor tax. The ideas coming from the North have some merit, as I'd guess that a significant amount of the revenue generated by motor tax goes towards its collection, which costs us all money.

How would you make it fairer?

unkel

I know a much cheaper system!

spuddy wrote: »

Noteworthy parts:

introducing online vehicle registration services

Abolish all registration systems / services

closing most tax offices ("recognise that we are now clearly in a digital world")

Close all tax offices

using post offices for any remaining face-to-face transations

Abolish all face-to-face transactions

And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

Stheno

unkel wrote: »

I know a much cheaper system!



And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

Agreed

Scortho

unkel wrote: »

I know a much cheaper system!



And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

And a vat rebate for companies commercial fleet so as not to damage the growth of companies (not commercials as some commercials aren't used for company purposes).

unkel

Scortho wrote: »

And a vat rebate for companies commercial fleet

All purchases for all VAT registered companies should be eligble for a full VAT refund / offset. So yes diesel and petrol should be included

Scortho

unkel wrote: »

All purchases for all VAT registered companies should be eligble for a full VAT refund / offset. So yes diesel and petrol should be included

It's the simplest solution. Also remove the dye from agricultural diesel. Bye bye washed diesel. Though some people in Monaghan my not be happy!:P
Tax compliant farmers at years end get a rebate.

unkel

Scortho wrote: »

Also remove the dye from agricultural diesel. Bye bye washed diesel.

Don't get me started on that! I know godfather de Valera wanted us all to be simple archbishop McQuaid fearing subsidised farmers but thank God fukc this country has move on

MetzgerMeister

spuddy wrote: »

Is the title that misleading? Really wasn't meant to be, I'd like to see how we could reform motor tax. The ideas coming from the North have some merit, as I'd guess that a significant amount of the revenue generated by motor tax goes towards its collection, which costs us all money.

How would you make it fairer?

It's misleading in the regard that what you're talking about is moreso a reform of the taxation system as opposed to the motor tax itself.

I would make it fairer by reducing the cost of the higher rates. How is it fair for someone with a 3 ltr + engine to pay over €1500 a year on motor tax alone? Fine, you knew the tax before you bought the car but that still does not make it fair. Then again no "tax" is fair but the CC system was never a very realistic system to begin with, let alone when the CO2 system came in.

For instance, on the CC system, it's €199 to tax a 1ltr. Why then isn't that tripled for a 3ltr? Why am I paying €1494 instead of €597?

unkel wrote: »

I know a much cheaper system!



And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

I know it's not that much every year per person but what about someone who is buying petrol for a lawnmower/strimmer etc.?

Red Kev

unkel wrote: »

I know a much cheaper system!



And on top of that get others to collect all motor tax for the government free of charge

And my brilliant system is: put all motor tax on fuel. Simples.

The fairest system possible as you only pay as you use fuel / pollute

I think the figure quoted is 40c per litre. Time ot do that was in 2006-07, height of thee boom and fuel was under €1.00. Hard to justify it now pushing petrol over €2.00.

The biggest problem is that whoever introduces it will be finished by the opposition promising to get rid of it etc. It's political suicide though it's something I'm in favour of myself.

I'm all for paying it at the post office and while we're at it, introduce the Swedish-German system and put the stickers for NCT, tax and insurance on the reg plate front and rear to make the dodgers more easy to identify.

MuppetCheck

Simplest solution with regard to motor taxation is to put it on the fuel at point of purchase. The reason this isn't done is because I'd imagine they cannot figure out a forecast on the revenues with such a system. A national mileage register through the NCT would help.

I'd be screwed if that happened but common sense tells you the user needs to pay.

I'm all for closing motor tax offices. There's so much a post office can (and would be willing) to do that would render many government offices redundant. Haven't visited one since the online system went live.

Supergurrier

OP should write headlines for the Daily Mail

allthedoyles

Who wants to spend more time queueing in post offices .

In our local PO , they start queueing at 8am every morning , even though it don't open till 9am .

I certainly agree with re-deploying the civil servants to the Post office dole queue though.

Jesus.

All the suggestions in the OP are cosmetic. They don't mean a damn.

What's needed is exactly what Metzger Meister and Unkel have suggested. Either reform the price structure to one that actually makes sense or better still, abolish it altogether and put the tax on fuel.

The Motor tax situation in this Country is a total farce.

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

All the suggestions in the OP are cosmetic. They don't mean a damn.

What's needed is exactly what Metzger Meister and Unkel have suggested. Either reform the price structure to one that actually makes sense or better still, abolish it altogether and put the tax on fuel.

The Motor tax situation in this Country is a total farce.

I've got even better idea.
Just scrap motortax at all.
Why should we pay some extra tax on cars which are thing of everyday use these days.

Scortho

CiniO wrote: »

I've got even better idea.
Just scrap motortax at all.
Why should we pay some extra tax on cars which are thing of everyday use these days.

Because we'd have to raise the money elsewhere?
We are spending a significant amount more than what were taking in in tax revenue.

CiniO

Scortho wrote: »

Because we'd have to raise the money elsewhere?
We are spending a significant amount more than what were taking in in tax revenue.

I've got a better idea.
Instead of rising money elsewhere, why does government not cut the spendings?

MetzgerMeister

CiniO wrote: »

I've got a better idea.
Instead of rising money elsewhere, why does government not cut the spendings?

Cut spending where exactly? You're talking about something like 3 years of no road repairs to make up the revenue lost from motor tax within a 6 month period :pac:

Scortho

CiniO wrote: »

I've got a better idea.
Instead of rising money elsewhere, why does government not cut the spendings?

Oh I'd agree with that definitely. However they'd never do that, as labour won't allow the department with the highest spending to have the biggest cuts.

Idbatterim

in that case why not just get rid of motor tax entirely and make up the shortfall by increasing taxes or cutting expenditure. We all use the roads, be it as drivers ourselves, public transport users, cyclists etc...

CiniO

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Cut spending where exactly? You're talking about something like 3 years of no road repairs to make up the revenue lost from motor tax within a 6 month period :pac:

In my region roads weren't repaired for last 3 years so it wouldn't make any difference.

But there is plenty of other areas to make cuts, f.e horrendous amounts of money paid to people who sit on the dole for 2, 3, 5, 10 or more years (that's just one of the examples).

Why should I pay crazy rates of tax on my car, to support someone who is not willing to do anything.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

In my region roads weren't repaired for last 3 years so it wouldn't make any difference.But there is plenty of other areas to make cuts, f.e horrendous amounts of money paid to people who sit on the dole for 2, 3, 5, 10 or more years (that's just one of the examples).Why should I pay crazy rates of tax on my car, to support someone who is not willing to do anything.

Now its getting a bit crazy. There are very few of those people on the live register. The vast majority were made redundant because the gamblers at the high end of society destroyed the Country through their recklessness and greed. When things go tits up, why is the focus always put on a tiny number of people who are taking what's ultimately a pittance compared to what the real crooks have taken from this Country?

I feel your rage, Cinio mate, but I think you're directing your fire in the wrong direction.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

allthedoyles wrote: »

Who wants to spend more time queueing in post offices .

In our local PO , they start queueing at 8am every morning , even though it don't open till 9am .

I certainly agree with re-deploying the civil servants to the Post office dole queue though.

Most Post Office workers are not civil servants....An Post in itself is a semi state (so its employees are generally not civil servants either). Most Post Offices are run privately and get a commission from the Dept of Social Protection for each dole claim they pay out, so its up to the people who run them how many people are employed there. Nothing to do with redeployment.

Its bad when you have PS bashing going on in the feckin Motors forum.

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

Now its getting a bit crazy. There are very few of those people on the live register. The vast majority were made redundant because the gamblers at the high end of society destroyed the Country through their recklessness and greed. When things go tits up, why is the focus always put on a tiny number of people who are taking what's ultimately a pittance compared to what the real crooks have taken from this Country?

I feel your rage, Cinio mate, but I think you're directing your fire in the wrong direction.

See, I live in rural area in West of Ireland, so I just point of things I see around me.
I don't deny you are right here probably, that it's just a tiny portion of where money is wasted.

But what I'm interested in here is why I have to pay very big money in tax just for privilege of having a car.
For me it's as ridiculous as they suddenly asked people to pay extra tax on f.e. their clothing.
Why don't we pay 30% VRT on pair of jeans + 20 quid every 3 months for privilege of being able to wear them in public. And if you decide to keep them in your wardrobe unused, you could declare them off.

Motor tax is ridiculous tax which is not needed for anything.
And if government needs money from this tax, it means they have things arranged wrongly, as I'm sure they could make it working without motortax.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

See, I live in rural area in West of Ireland, so I just point of things I see around me.
I don't deny you are right here probably, that it's just a tiny portion of where money is wasted.But what I'm interested in here is why I have to pay very big money in tax just for privilege of having a car.
For me it's as ridiculous as they suddenly asked people to pay extra tax on f.e. their clothing.Why don't we pay 30% VRT on pair of jeans + 20 quid every 3 months for privilege of being able to wear them in public. And if you decide to keep them in your wardrobe unused, you could declare them off.Motor tax is ridiculous tax which is not needed for anything.And if government needs money from this tax, it means they have things arranged wrongly, as I'm sure they could make it working without motortax.

Couldn't agree more pal. Although I don't mind paying tax on motoring, whether it be on the car or at the pumps, when its done reasonably and fairly, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Irish motorist gets fu*ked up the ass by the Government and it feels like its almost a criminal offence now to own a car in this Country.

It stinks.

Does anyone seriously think the Government will change to a screw you if you use your car or not system to a screw you if you only use it system ?

The current system works for them best.

Starscream25

Abolish motor tax, increase tax on fuel, never going to happen tho

pred racer

allthedoyles wrote: »

Who wants to spend more time queueing in post offices .

In our local PO , they start queueing at 8am every morning , even though it don't open till 9am .

Yeah whats the story with that? Are they getting their dole early to be in time for work:p

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

3 years of no road repairs to make up the revenue lost from motor tax within a 6 month period :pac:

Sounds like whats happening round my way, and I bloody pay mine;)

spuddy

Starscream25 wrote: »

Abolish motor tax, increase tax on fuel, never going to happen tho

I'd agree with that analysis, in the current climate, no government will abolish motor tax. So I'll go back to my original question, what efficiencies could be introduced to get better value out of the existing system and help avoid further rate increases?