Gabe Newell - PC/Linux gaming and Steambox

AlmightyCushion

Monotype wrote: »

What about steam for PS4? PS4 is already running a form of BSD which wouldn't be a huge step from linux. We know that they have ties with Sony and if Sony don't see them as a major threat, they might give it the go ahead if there's some mutual benefits... however, going the steambox route might be seen as an encroachment upon their territory.

I reckon that about 3 years time would be an excellent time to release a steam box. At present, both consoles are mediocre in the hardware world. 2/3 years would be early in the life of the console, but hardware which can double their performance or better could easily be available at a reasonable cost by then. I wouldn't like to go against them now - even if you can offer better performance, people will be looking closely at the prices.

I can't see that happening. Sony get a cut of every PS4 game sold and Valve get a cut of every Steam game sold. Sony won't let Valve sell or provide access to your steam library unless they get a cut and I can't see Valve giving them a cut. At best we'd see something like cross platform play between PS4 and Steam.

C14N wrote: »

That would actually probably get loads of people to install Linux, even if it was just a timed exclusive. It would hurt Valve's highly built-up goodwill though.

Why does Valve want to switch to Linux in the first place? Clearly that is a huge task if they're going to completely go through with it and it will take a long time. Is it all so they can make a Steam box without needing to pay licensing to Microsoft?

It would get a lot of people using Linux for Half Life but for how long? I'd dual boot to play HL3 but that's it. And the moment I was done with HL3 I'd be back using Windows. Plus, it would hurt sales big time. You, I and everyone here may know how to install Linux but not a lot of people do. Some of the ones that do may not bother with it.

Moon54 wrote: »

Yes, exactly, in the long term the Windows tax has got to be a very real concern I'd say.

Especially with Microsoft (taking tips from Apple) now having a walled garden approach with Windows 8;
i.e. Windows store, forcing users to create MS a/c's (Win 8.1) and forcing SkyDrive on everyone etc.

Windows is not the open PC platform that it once was.

Windows isn't a walled garden (RT is unless you jailbreak it). You get the Windows store but there is nothing stopping you from getting access to games and applications from other sources like Steam, Origin, Uplay etc. or just downloading it from what ever site you like.

You're not forced into using a Microsoft account in 8.1, you can still use a local account, it's just not as obvious and the option is hidden in 8.1. If you're not connected to the internet when setting up the computer it will give you a local option, you can also just hit next a couple of times when it asks for your email and it will give you the option. Even if you do set it up with a Microsoft account you can change it back afterwards. You're not forced to use Skydrive, it's just there. That's like saying you're forced to use WMP or notepad. You can just not use it.

The reason Valve are pushing Linux is because likely because the Microsoft store can threaten Steam and as we all know Valve make a lot of money from Steam. It wasn't long after the news of the Microsoft store came out that Gabe Newell started bashing Windows. If Microsoft choose to really go after Valve and Steam (they did just recruit one of the guys who developed Steam) then it could be bad news long term for Steam. Microsoft already have a good relationship with developers and publishers from Xbox. If Microsoft learn from the disaster that was G4WL and really put their weight behind this it could work and could make Windows/Windows store a good competitor to Steam. Even including things like achievements that affect your gamertag could be enough to entice people to buy the Windows version over the Steam version.

There is also the potential that in a future version of Windows that the only place to install and buy applications would be the Microsoft store. This is what really worries Gabe. If they do that and stick with it, it would be the end of Steam sooner or later. I can't see Microsoft doing it though. Seeing they have a monopoly, it would probably result in a load of lawsuits but even still if I was in Gabe's shoes I'd be looking to hedge my bets just to be on the safe side and pushing Linux is just that.

5uspect

5uspect wrote: »

The PS3 pretty much runs a UNIX variant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_system_software

Why not build a Steam distro just for Valve hardware and the necessary tools etc for game development. Gabe already talked about debuggers. Or extend the steam client for Linux to include a full system configuration for running games.
Existing games with low performance requirements (2D platformers etc) could be run on a VM or something while new games could be developed just like console games. Of course convincing developers to develop for a steam box/ steam configured Ubuntu would be a big issue.

The steam box software would still let you do whatever you want but would be preconfigured for steam gaming. Kinda like CAELinux.

I have a lot of games in my backlog that I would rather play with a controller on the sofa. Most of these are not very demanding games either.

SteamOS, called it!
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

C14N

Being able to Stream from Windows games will be a big help. Honestly, it would make a fellow debate whether getting a next gen console is worth it if he already has a decent Steam library.

I assume it only allows you to stream actual Steam-bought games though and not general PC games, so no luck if your games are on Origin or Uplay.

Dyr

Consider me underwhelmed, and not even a release date.

If the next announcement is a controller and the one after a steam box then they will be guilty of some serious dragging out.

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

Consider me underwhelmed, and not even a release date.

If the next announcement is a controller and the one after a steam box then they will be guilty of some serious dragging out.

Why? It sounds like a good idea and effectively gets around the problem of not being able to play games on Linux by letting you stream from your PC (presumably with much lower specs than the PC itself).

Dyr

C14N wrote: »

Why? It sounds like a good idea and effectively gets around the problem of not being able to play games on Linux by letting you stream from your PC (presumably with much lower specs than the PC itself).

It means they haven't figured out a way to run PC games natively in their linux OS (a big ask, fair enough). They moaned about windows but they're expecting the customer to run a windows PC to avail of the steam box. Stick a little burberry hat on gabe and make it available in DOTA :pac:



"Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. "

So they will have to rely on uptake from developers porting their games to steamOS aka linux to have any success, not really a game changer there.

C14N

Bambi wrote: »

"Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. "

So they will have to rely on uptake from developers porting their games to steamOS aka linux to have any success, not really a game changer there.

Well good point but it does sound like they've got more games ready to run on it than the 200 or so available now. They do say "Thousands of games" so I have to assume they have some fairly concrete plans to get a lot of this stuff ported.

Main thing is though, that if I can stream from a low-powered PC, I could basically spend €400-500 (price of an X1 or PS4) on a HTPC instead. Since I already have a gaming PC, I can now get a next-gen living room console that also lets me play loads of previous-gen games too, unlike the Sony and MS options where you're stuck waiting for a library to build up.

Tar.Aldarion

Well the big thing here is clout, most people I know won't even buy a game if it's not on steam any more, I can't remember the last time I have. I'd say it's a huge percentage for some companies. And valve are certainly putting in some effort with this. Everybody said they would fail going to Russia, now their second biggest market for some time, these boys know what they are up to, considering they have expanded by 50% every year, huge amount.

For now they let you stream your current library of windows games, then as time goes on more and more of these games will be native Stream OS games. Not an overnight thing.

Nollog

My main excitement about SteamOS is the TV& Movies thing, I'll actually legitimately buy movies and tv shows if it's similar to how steam manage games.

Also streaming from your main pc is a great idea, makes steambox a lot more attractive to people, as it can be super-cheap and still play the highest quality pc games if your main pc can.

Announcement 2 is probably a controller, and 3 the box.

Dyr

C14N wrote: »

Well good point but it does sound like they've got more games ready to run on it than the 200 or so available now. They do say "Thousands of games" so I have to assume they have some fairly concrete plans to get a lot of this stuff ported.

Main thing is though, that if I can stream from a low-powered PC, I could basically spend €400-500 (price of an X1 or PS4) on a HTPC instead. Since I already have a gaming PC, I can now get a next-gen living room console that also lets me play loads of previous-gen games too, unlike the Sony and MS options where you're stuck waiting for a library to build up.

What are you gonna use for a controller though? :P

the reason my PC isn't in the living room is because I don't like using game controllers when I have decent PC peripherals, unless they come up with the mother and father of all wireless controllers it's not going be much use to me and many other pc users.

plus 500 lids is too expensive for what is essentially an add on to a PC

They say they have hundreds of games with thousands available through streaming I think

They need to get the steam catalog playing natively on their OS, either through some heroic porting efforts or a WINE type solution. Knowing Gabe he'll leave it up to users to do the porting though :rolleyes:

Dyr

/\/ollog wrote: »

Announcement 2 is probably a controller, and 3 the box.

I suspect so, and its a dumb strategy to draw out announcing what is essentially the same product over a week

shruikan2553

It is an interesting idea. Personally I doubt I would use it because I dont have a TV thats bigger than my monitor. Still, when I do get tv it would be tempting to buy a small, cheap computer. Waiting for other 2 announcements before i make my mind up.

Antar Bolaeisk

Oh dear, they said "soon".

This of course can mean anything up to and beyond 9 years.

Tar.Aldarion

I doubt it will be a controller, the second one will be the steam box, it's literally a circle inside a box. The third looks like some new connectivity thing as well but imo it's be the source 2 engine. L4d3 showcase or something. bitta half life 3 concept

/\/ollog wrote: »

My main excitement about SteamOS is the TV& Movies thing, I'll actually legitimately buy movies and tv shows if it's similar to how steam manage games.

Also streaming from your main pc is a great idea, makes steambox a lot more attractive to people, as it can be super-cheap and still play the highest quality pc games if your main pc can.

Announcement 2 is probably a controller, and 3 the box.

I have a film in my steam library, love it, only way to get me to buy films.

AlmightyCushion

The big problem I have with a Steam OS is that the Steam client isn't exactly great. It can be pretty laggy, slow and unresponsive. For example, activating a steam code causes the whole client to lock up as it phones home to verify the code.

Cuddlesworth

Bambi wrote: »

"Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. "

So they will have to rely on uptake from developers porting their games to steamOS aka linux to have any success, not really a game changer there.

A quick glance at the Google play store shows plenty of titles coded for a Linux OS.

jumbobreakfast

I reckon with the likes of netflix and XBMC that when PC gamers decide to invest in a box for the living room, they will lean towards spending a bit more to get the extra features of a box running Steam, especially if it runs quiet. As for porting, they don't want to use Wine because that brings them back under Windows/Directx. Correct me if I'm wrong here but they want to port games to OpenGL to create a new option and create some competition. This is good for PC gaming whichever way you look at it.

I wonder if the Nvidia Shield experiment was greenlit thanks to Valve's move towards Steambox? They certainly worked closely together and the games streaming tech would be the same

Nollog

jumbobreakfast wrote: »

I reckon with the likes of netflix and XBMC that when PC gamers decide to invest in a box for the living room, they will lean towards spending a bit more to get the extra features of a box running Steam, especially if it runs quiet. As for porting, they don't want to use Wine because that brings them back under Windows/Directx. Correct me if I'm wrong here but they want to port games to OpenGL to create a new option and create some competition. This is good for PC gaming whichever way you look at it.

I wonder if the Nvidia Shield experiment was greenlit thanks to Valve's move towards Steambox? They certainly worked closely together and the games streaming tech would be the same

Why spend the extra money when you can just stream your games from your desktop in another room silently to your TV over LAN ?

Dyr

If you accept that Valves strategy isn't so much about getting steam into the living room as it is about getting steam OFF Windows and taking their customers and game developers with them then this announcement is really only a first tenuous step, they're having a trial separation from windows but they only have visitation rights to the customers. They want a divorce and sole custody of the customers and the PC game companies.

I don't see that as an easy thing to do and you can bet microsoft will take them on

nesf

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The big problem I have with a Steam OS is that the Steam client isn't exactly great. It can be pretty laggy, slow and unresponsive. For example, activating a steam code causes the whole client to lock up as it phones home to verify the code.

There has been many a time when I wished EA and Valve would swap clients.

EJ22

Im pretty excited to see what will happen with SteamOS, especially with valve's financial backing into an open source OS like Ubuntu 12.04 which is what they're building it on at the moment. A bit of info here about the SteamOS if anyone hasn't seen it http://steamdb.info/blog/25/

Moon54

Moon54 wrote: »

My money is on a Valve Linux distro called Steam OS,
has a nice ring to it, don't you think.

Lol, I totally called it

Anyone want my prediction for what's next.... ( It's a controller)

Sierra Oscar

Valve presser sent out earlier, just to dispel any belief that one of them may be HL related!

Valve - Three announcements coming next week

Hi.

As Gabe mentioned a few days ago, we will be talking next week about the steps we're taking to make Steam more accessible on televisions and in the living room. Specifically, we have three announcements to make beginning with the first one on Monday morning. Below is the URL where we'll post the information, so please bookmark this address and check back at the start of the week. Thanks for your interest, and as always, ping me with questions.

http://steampowered.com/livingroom

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The big problem I have with a Steam OS is that the Steam client isn't exactly great. It can be pretty laggy, slow and unresponsive. For example, activating a steam code causes the whole client to lock up as it phones home to verify the code.

Hopefully those sort of issues will have been long resolved by the time SteamOS is released.

Your right though, it is one of the quirky things with Steam. For example, I don't know why it is still not possible to do anything else while you are verifying any game files - even if it is only to browse the Steam store.

Dravokivich

/\/ollog wrote: »

Why spend the extra money when you can just stream your games from your desktop in another room silently to your TV over LAN ?

Id rather just bring my pc to the sitting room if I was going to have such a use for it. I dont see the point in Installing software on one pc, to basically remote into and play games from another.

Jonny7

Bambi wrote: »

If you accept that Valves strategy isn't so much about getting steam into the living room as it is about getting steam OFF Windows and taking their customers and game developers with them then this announcement is really only a first tenuous step, they're having a trial separation from windows but they only have visitation rights to the customers. They want a divorce and sole custody of the customers and the PC game companies.

I don't see that as an easy thing to do and you can bet microsoft will take them on

Gabe vs Gates - no prizes for guessing who the great unwashed masses of gamers will go for

I might resent the 80 odd euros I give microsoft every 2 or 3 years, but I literally throw money at steam every 6 months for a glittering virtual trophycase of unplayed games

It's like the cult that keeps on giving, the OS will be a success no doubt

ShadowHearth

Well, looks like they are using Streaming option now as a way to play games you own already. And then new releases will natively support SteamOS. It is sort of Gaikai of PS4 thing, but for PCs.

I am just a bit confused on one thing: they are focusing on "living room". Its not a full replacement for your current OS on main PC.

Well, all in all, its good news and I am happy Valve is doing something. It might suck at start, but lets not forget, Steam when came out was a huge pet hate of 99% of PC gamers world wide. Look at it now.

Thecageyone

I was thinking that. Anyone who plays on a gaming laptop can just hook it up to a HDTV right now via DMI ...

Sounds a bit like a pc pretending to be a console. Do they somehow think this will bring both sides together? lolz ...

Nollog

Dravokivich wrote: »

Id rather just bring my pc to the sitting room if I was going to have such a use for it. I dont see the point in Installing software on one pc, to basically remote into and play games from another.

My main PC is loud, and not connected to my TV.

Dravokivich

/\/ollog wrote: »

My main PC is loud, and not connected to my TV.

Fair enough, but for a playerbase that generally looks to get the most they can from hardware, it doesn't make sense to me for steam to say, double up on hardware.

Cuddlesworth

Dravokivich wrote: »

Fair enough, but for a playerbase that generally looks to get the most they can from hardware, it doesn't make sense to me for steam to say, double up on hardware.

If its a streamed solution from a desktop pc(which is really interesting), then a device on par with Googles Chromecast would not be far off doing 1080p gaming on the TV. At around 100 quid, who here wouldn't be interested? Sony are not going to care, since it isn't in direct competition with the ps3.