Expectations Under Joe [MOD WARNING POST #1]

DGRulz

phog wrote: »

Like any lead up to a new season/competition I've a fresh hope of success and obviously with a new manager that has had so much success with Leinster then my hope is probably higher than usual.

It's not stretching it that we can win 2 from 3, I'd love 3 from 3 but I'm not sure we'd beat a competitive AB team.

For the 6Ns and at this moment in time I can't see us winning it, a Grand Slam would be great but I'm not that's easy either. BTW, I hope the Welsh game isn't somehow turned into a grudge game Ireland v The Welsh Lions.

Of course it won't. It'll be BOD showing Gatland whats what

Kayless

In an ideal world we will beat NZ for the first time and cap it off with a Grand Slam by beating France in Paris

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Don't think there was any need for that comment Swiwi

OK. Mea culpa. I can't speak, and certainly don't intend to speak for anyone, but since your OP was expectations under Schmidt, one of mine is an informative press conference.

Clearly, other people were happy with Kidney's banalities, which I'm not.

phog

DGRulz wrote: »

Of course it won't. It'll be BOD showing Gatland whats what

That will even be worse. BTW, I'm more concerned about the media/pundits than the individuals involved

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Swiwi. wrote: »

OK. Mea culpa. I can't speak, and certainly don't intend to speak for anoyne, but since your OP was expectations under Schmidt, one of mine is an informative press conference.

Clearly, other people were happy with Kidney's banalities, which I'm not.

I agree about Kidney's banalities, just thought it was unfair that you had to play the "bet your from Munster" card straight away with BBDBB

Kayless

phog wrote: »

Like any lead up to a new season/competition I've a fresh hope of success and obviously with a new manager that has had so much success with Leinster then my hope is probably higher than usual.

It's not stretching it that we can win 2 from 3, I'd love 3 from 3 but I'm not sure we'd beat a competitive AB team.

For the 6Ns and at this moment in time I can't see us winning it, a Grand Slam would be great but I'm not that's easy either. BTW, I hope the Welsh game isn't somehow turned into a grudge game Ireland v The Welsh Lions.

Fack that I hope BOD scores a hat-trick and dedicates it to Gatland

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I agree about Kidney's banalities, just thought it was unfair that you had to play the "bet your from Munster" card straight away with BBDBB

Well, I'm sure he is! But yes, I have retracted.

Tox56

If Jonathan Davies and BOD both start at 13 in the Ireland-Wales game a massive amount of the pre match coverage will be dedicated to that, that's just how it is. I don't think it's going to somehow change the result of the match though

BBDBB

You seem to be hung up on peoples location in relation to their opinions, Siwi, that seems a bit of a red herring at best.

The thread is about the new Ireland coach. I genuinely don't care where he plied his trade before so long as he has a good pedigree of coaching quality, winning rugby. It was the same criteria I applied to Kidney on his arrival in the job. I was very happy with his appointment at the time, as I felt EOS had taken us as far as he could. Kidney took us further and then reached a point where he couldn't take us any further. As such I welcome Joes appointment and based on what I saw him do with Leinster in his tenure I am looking forward to him improving (dramatically) our side over a realistic and fair time.

You want there to be "interesting" comments to the media, fair enough, I hope you get your wish BUT I sincerely hope he is wise enough to realise the value of saying bland banalities to the media at times. Not everything Kidney did should be casually discarded and rejected, that would be foolish.

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

Well, I'm sure he is! But yes, I have retracted.

ahh, fair enough, no harm done

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not referring to anything in particular Jm, just the few interviews he's given he seems a lot more frank and honest than Kidney who was a lot more reserved

Oh, so he has said nothing!

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Oh, so he has said nothing!

? He has given interviews, they're out there somewhere

Swiwi.

BBDBB wrote: »

You seem to be hung up on peoples location in relation to their opinions, Siwi, that seems a bit of a red herring at best.

The thread is about the new Ireland coach. I genuinely don't care where he plied his trade before so long as he has a good pedigree of coaching quality, winning rugby. It was the same criteria I applied to Kidney on his arrival in the job. I was very happy with his appointment at the time, as I felt EOS had taken us as far as he could. Kidney took us further and then reached a point where he couldn't take us any further. As such I welcome Joes appointment and based on what I saw him do with Leinster in his tenure I am looking forward to him improving (dramatically) our side over a realistic and fair time.

You want there to be "interesting" comments to the media, fair enough, I hope you get your wish BUT I sincerely hope he is wise enough to realise the value of saying bland banalities to the media at times. Not everything Kidney did should be casually discarded and rejected, that would be foolish.

All teams have video analysis etc these days. I doubt opposition coaches watch the press conferences hoping to glean tactics. I don't think anyone is expecting Schmidt to outline a gameplan to the nth degree for the coming weekend's match, but if he chooses Keatley ahead of Madigan as reserve flyhalf, or Boss ahead of Murray etc I like to know a bit of the reasoning behind it, that's all.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

? He has given interviews, they're out there somewhere

Kidney gave loads of interviews as well as most coaches and they all manage to say nothing, though in fairness to Schmidt I think he did say at some stage that he wasn't thinking of the world cup just yet.

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

All teams have video analysis etc these days. I doubt opposition coaches watch the press conferences hoping to glean tactics. I don't think anyone is expecting Schmidt to outline a gameplan to the nth degree for the coming weekend's match, but if he chooses Keatley ahead of Madigan as reserve flyhalf, or Boss ahead of Murray etc I like to know a bit of the reasoning behind it, that's all.

That's probably true, however that does define tactical information in a fairly limited way and is only one thing that could be gleaned from a press conference.

For example, attitude towards the opposition, their strengths are your concerns about the opposition and potential weaknesses that your own game plan may look to exploit. Any difficult selections made may give clues as to the tactics, bench, or players responses might give clues to mental states, injury concerns to be exploited or at extremes even problems in camp.

Its not an exact science, so, like you, Im not expecting Joe to hand over the playbook. But Im simply stating that in my view Kidney had it right in saying nothing other than bland platitudes. I realise the impact is less information for us, but given

1) I can see for myself the relative strengths of players vs others,
2) Im not privy to whats gone on in training re form and fitness
3) Its his job to make a choice and I can do nothing about it anyway its a price I was willing to pay

Quint2010

I expect he will have Ireland playing the type of high-tempo game he had Leinster playing. Of course it will be much harder to replicate on the international stage but then again in theory he will be training a higher standard quality pool of players. I don't think we will see many new caps for the AI's and to be honest I think results will be secondary. It took JS four or five games to get Leinster playing properly. He has a fraction of that time with the Ireland squad so I won't be expecting miracles.

jm08

Swiwi. wrote: »

Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. If Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

Edit: Comment edited in line with feedback from posters

Has Schmidt explained his selections for Leinster? Sorry, I've just not noticed much of what he has had to say.

Joe has not had too many difficult questions anyway because of his success record with Leinster, though its surprising that he got off lightly after some poor Pro 12 Final results and no one said anything really about not making the QFs in the Heineken Cup last season.

Lets wait and see how he deals with a few losses.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

Has Schmidt explained his selections for Leinster? Sorry, I've just not noticed much of what he has had to say.

Joe has not had too many difficult questions anyway because of his success record with Leinster, though its surprising that he got off lightly after some poor Pro 12 Final results and no one said anything really about not making the QFs in the Heineken Cup last season.

Lets wait and see how he deals with a few losses.

I think that's because he had won the Heineken Cup a week before contesting both the Pro 12 finals you talk about. As for last season-again Leinster's failure to reach the QF of the HC was more or less offset by winning the Pro 12 and The Amlin Cup.

Swiwi.

Quint2010 wrote: »

I think that's because he had won the Heineken Cup a week before contesting both the Pro 12 finals you talk about. As for last season-again Leinster's failure to reach the QF of the HC was more or less offset by winning the Pro 12 and The Amlin Cup.

Ah, you took the bait Quint2010 :mad:

Quint2010

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah, you took the bait Quint2010 :mad:

Yeah I know. But in fairness I think it is a valid question to ask ie why wasn't Schmidt criticised more for Leinster's HC failure last season. He got off lightly because he had a fair amount of credit in the bank.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Has Schmidt explained his selections for Leinster? Sorry, I've just not noticed much of what he has had to say.

Joe has not had too many difficult questions anyway because of his success record with Leinster, though its surprising that he got off lightly after some poor Pro 12 Final results and no one said anything really about not making the QFs in the Heineken Cup last season.

Lets wait and see how he deals with a few losses.

Leinster were incredibly unlucky between injuries/draw/kick off time in the HC last season and came within a whisker of going through while still playing decent rugby and despite not making the knock out phase of the HC Leinster still won a treble of trophies.

It took years of desperate performances from Ireland (barring the odd exception) for Kidney to be put under any slight bit of pressure by the media so I’m not sure what the point you’re trying to make is.

Foxtrol

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah, you took the bait Quint2010 :mad:

Me too (as usual)

Tox56

Quint2010 wrote: »

Yeah I know. But in fairness I think it is a valid question to ask ie why wasn't Schmidt criticised more for Leinster's HC failure last season. He got off lightly because he had a fair amount of credit in the bank.

...Clermont were exceptional in the Aviva game. We somehow nearly won in the SMM without BOD, Kearney, Fitzgerald and Madigan at 15. I really don't think we were that bad in the H Cup last season, particularly keeping in mind the at times crippling injury list. It was that Aviva game that cost us, where Clermont were outstanding

jm08

Quint2010 wrote: »

Yeah I know. But in fairness I think it is a valid question to ask ie why wasn't Schmidt criticised more for Leinster's HC failure last season. He got off lightly because he had a fair amount of credit in the bank.

I agree with you there with regard to Leinster, but he has no credit in the Ireland bank.

Penney was asked what he thought of Ireland's chances against the ABs in the AIs and he said he thought the ABs would prevail. He said though that there are some really good young players coming through and he thought that Ireland might take the ABs if they meet in the world cup.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Leinster were incredibly unlucky between injuries/draw/kick off time in the HC last season and came within a whisker of going through while still playing decent rugby and despite not making the knock out phase of the HC Leinster still won a treble of trophies.

It took years of desperate performances from Ireland (barring the odd exception) for Kidney to be put under any slight bit of pressure by the media so I’m not sure what the point you’re trying to make is.

Ireland had a long litany of injuries over the last year or so, particularly in the 6Ns this year.

You can't use injuries as an excuse.

thebaz

all I want to see is Ireland compete in a WC final - for Joe a semi final spot would be a success , but love to see us reach a WC final.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

...Clermont were exceptional in the Aviva game. We somehow nearly won in the SMM without BOD, Kearney, Fitzgerald and Madigan at 15. I really don't think we were that bad in the H Cup last season, particularly keeping in mind the at times crippling injury list. It was that Aviva game that cost us, where Clermont were outstanding

Leinster didn't score enough tries last season - Exeter in the RDS and Scarlets away were the ones that Leinster could have done better.

Leinster only missed qualifying by a try.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Ireland had a long litany of injuries over the last year or so, particularly in the 6Ns this year.

You can't use injuries as an excuse.

As usual you ignored the rest of my post. I said despite the number of injuries, a tough group, interested opponents and kicking off before others competing for the runner up spot Leinster were still only a whisker away from making the knock outs while also still playing decent rugby for the most part.

In contrast Ireland played horrible rugby, lost to teams who on paper they should have beaten and in general played at a lower level than the sum of their parts. If Ireland had performed well and lost narrowly against sides that are better than them there wouldn’t have been so much pressure on Kidney.

Bogota

BBDBB wrote: »

You seem to be hung up on peoples location in relation to their opinions, Siwi, that seems a bit of a red herring at best.

The thread is about the new Ireland coach. I genuinely don't care where he plied his trade before so long as he has a good pedigree of coaching quality, winning rugby. It was the same criteria I applied to Kidney on his arrival in the job. I was very happy with his appointment at the time, as I felt EOS had taken us as far as he could. Kidney took us further and then reached a point where he couldn't take us any further. As such I welcome Joes appointment and based on what I saw him do with Leinster in his tenure I am looking forward to him improving (dramatically) our side over a realistic and fair time.

You want there to be "interesting" comments to the media, fair enough, I hope you get your wish BUT I sincerely hope he is wise enough to realise the value of saying bland banalities to the media at times. Not everything Kidney did should be casually discarded and rejected, that would be foolish.

I think hes pointing out that there is a section of posters on this forum from the south who will try to shut out any kind of criticism of any of their players/former players/coaches/former coaches etc.

It was a fair comment, Kidney was an awful manager and there is literally no reason to defend him. He had the best players Ireland has ever had at his disposal and won 1 GS playing muck rugby. How many GS did Wales win in that period?

The only reason winning the GS bought him so much time was because fans of Ireland remembered the times when Ireland would have had a good 6N finishing 4th, however with the team Kidney had it was quite frankly a disgrace. He had a Leinster team that had won the HC 3 out of the 4 years during his tenure and completely squandered the talent choosing lesser players and being stubborn.

Ah no more Kidney, thank god!!!


I expect from Joe 2/3 wins but wont begrude him a defeat against Australia if its a good performance. Most importantly Joe will change the playing philosophy of the team and start picking players on merit rather than whether he was familar with them.

awec

This has the potential to be a good thread about what the expectations will be going forward - let's not ruin it by turning it into yet another Kidney thread or an argument about how fans of certain provinces viewed him please.