Expectations Under Joe [MOD WARNING POST #1]

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Ok lads, with November internationals not far away I was wondering how everyone expects us to do under Joe Schmidt

Personally, the signs so far have been good. It's great to see Schmidt visiting each province for training sessions etc and what he's said in the media has been a bit of fresh air after Kidney's "saying something but not much at all" routine

I don't expect change to come overnight, but I'm hopeful that we can become much more consistent over time in terms of our test performances

Samoa will be a serious baptism of fire and you can bet they'll be eyeing us up with a view to a scalp. Then we all know what NZ can do. The Australia game is one we should be winning at home imo, not the force they once were and we should be going into the six nations with a good vibe whatever the outcome of the first two games

Most of all I'm excited tbh, nervous about how Schmidt will handle the transition from top club coach to the international game but excited nonetheless

MOD WARNING:

awec wrote: »

This has the potential to be a good thread about what the expectations will be going forward - let's not ruin it by turning it into yet another Kidney thread or an argument about how fans of certain provinces viewed him please.

P_1

My immediate exception is for an improvement to the style of rugby that is played, to me results don't matter yet.

Tox56

Excited definitely, first time I can say that about Ireland for a long time, but after seeing Australia in tatters after their coach was sacked by popular demand I'm very wary. Kidney was a problem over the last few years, but the players still have to deliver.

We have one of the best coaches in the world now in command of our national team though, so there's definitely a reason to be optimistic.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Tox56 wrote: »

Excited definitely, first time I can say that about Ireland for a long time, but after seeing Australia in tatters after their coach was sacked by popular demand I'm very wary. Kidney was a problem over the last few years, but the players still have to deliver.

We have one of the best coaches in the world now in command of our national team though, so there's definitely a reason to be optimistic.

I think we're in a much better place than Australia player wise though, especially in the front five where with the exception of Horwill, they don't have a player that would make the Irish team.

Similarly they don't have anything close to a world class ten whereas we've got one of the best if not the best (Sorry Dan)

Our backrow speaks for itself and while we do have a problem in midfield we have some very good attacking options out-wide

In short I don't think the situations are comparable. Not to mention I don't think the Irish players have the same terrible attitude towards the game as a lot of their Aussie counterparts

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Personally, the signs so far have been good. It's great to see Schmidt visiting each province for training sessions etc and what he's said in the media has been a bit of fresh air after Kidney's "saying something but not much at all" routine

What did he say?

Riskymove

I agree about Australia

I think that will be the key match for me of the three to see how the team is playing/performing

while I want to see Ireland play well and it would be fantastic to win all 3 games:

beating Samoa would be an expectation
being honest, losing to All Blacks also one

so I think a target of winning 2 of the 3 at least is a realistic aim

that said...as mentioned...the expectation is really around style and general performance

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jm08 wrote: »

What did he say?

Not referring to anything in particular Jm, just the few interviews he's given he seems a lot more frank and honest than Kidney who was a lot more reserved

Tox56

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think we're in a much better place than Australia player wise though, especially in the front five where with the exception of Horwill, they don't have a player that would make the Irish team.

Similarly they don't have anything close to a world class ten whereas we've got one of the best if not the best (Sorry Dan)

Our backrow speaks for itself and while we do have a problem in midfield we have some very good attacking options out-wide

In short I don't think the situations are comparable. Not to mention I don't think the Irish players have the same terrible attitude towards the game as a lot of their Aussie counterparts

Yeah thinking about it now you could argue we have a world class player in every area of the team with the possible exception of centre, where, ironically, we have one of the greatest centre partnerships ever (in the front row, second row, back row, half backs and back 3 we have at least 1 player many would consider 'world class').

Swiwi.

P_1 wrote: »

My immediate exception is for an improvement to the style of rugby that is played, to me results don't matter yet.

I agree. It's still possible Ireland is 0-3 after the AIs, but the manner of defeat if it occurred would be important. However, Ireland should definitely target Samoa & Australia for victory, I think NZ remains a bridge too far at present, although as I've previously blogged if NZ defeat England the week before, which is the game NZ will be targeting the most, then the laurels may be down somewhat. I would expect Australia to improve a bit over time. Stephen Moore would possibly be in the Irish frame if he plied his trade here, and yes Horwill, but otherwise the Australian tight five is truly powder puff.

I look forward to Sexton stamping his mark on the international game, I keep reading how he might be the world's best 10, but once again I struggle to think of meaningful international games where he has utterly dominated. Always gets me into trouble this comment (to be expected on an Irish forum), not saying he's not a very good 10 (he is), but I look forward to seeing how he goes against whichever flyhalf NZ fields against him - and there's a good chance it won't be Carter given his injury travails of recent times.

I'm really hoping Schmidt takes a punt on some of the promising younger players in the squad - not necessarily challenging for a match day spot yet, but the way Hansen has Brad Shields, TJ Perenara etc involved in the NZ training camps with an eye to the future.

BBDBB

My expectations aren't overwhelming for the Autumn, but longer term id have to rate the job he did at Leinster to be exceptional, if he can do that for Ireland over a year or two I would be delighted, Id love another grandslam in a couple of seasons and a decent showing at a world cup shouldn't be beyond us

Swiwi.

Oh, and a Press Conference worth watching...

thomond2006

John Hayes to be recalled.

BBDBB

I never had a problem with Kidneys non committal responses and bland generalisations to the media.
a) its what they deserve
b) it gave the opposition nothing

Swiwi.

BBDBB wrote: »

I never had a problem with Kidneys non committal responses and bland generalisations to the media.
a) its what they deserve
b) it gave the opposition nothing

It gave the fans nothing too.

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

It gave the fans nothing too.

I didn't find that stopped them from forming their own views anyway

Riskymove

Swiwi. wrote: »

It gave the fans nothing too.

tbh So what?

nobody really cared what he said after games when he won the grand slam

we all know what he's like in front of a camera


I really dont care about Schmidt's approach to press conferences

Swiwi.

Riskymove wrote: »

tbh So what?

nobody really cared what he said after games when he won the grand slam

we all know what he's like in front of a camera


I really dont care about Schmidt's approach to press conferences

Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. If Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

Edit: Comment edited in line with feedback from posters

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BBDBB wrote: »

I never had a problem with Kidneys non committal responses and bland generalisations to the media.
a) its what they deserve
b) it gave the opposition nothing

Have to disagree with that. It's not what the media deserve either, without them Irish rugby would not be where it is today

Riskymove

Swiwi. wrote: »

Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. Anyway this is getting off thread, but if Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

I dont disagree about Schmidt but it isn't my main concern...on pitch is

I am just gonna let your first comments go as there is enough stirring of such nonense on these threads and I'd rather stick to the topic

rrpc

Riskymove wrote: »

tbh So what?

nobody really cared what he said after games when he won the grand slam

we all know what he's like in front of a camera


I really dont care about Schmidt's approach to press conferences

There's reticent and there's downright insulting. We're not expecting to hear the tactics that will be employed, but we're not tuning in to 'dial a cliche' either.

At least give the fans (and that's who they're talking to, the media are just the conduit) the courtesy of a nod to their intelligence.

Howard Juneau

I expect slightly improved back play, no change in our forward play. 2 out of 3 wins in the AI
& for us to bounce between 6th & 10th in the rankings for the next few years

Riskymove

rrpc wrote: »

At least give the fans (and that's who they're talking to, the media are just the conduit) the courtesy of a nod to their intelligence.

as I said I don't really care what Schmidt says to interviewers after a game, you have a different opinion...fine

I am concerned with what happens on the pitch

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

Might I be correct in surmising your good self and BBDBB hail from the more southern parts of the Republic. Awfully defensive there. Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. Anyway this is getting off thread, but if Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

you might not and no, not defensive in the least, try again if you like and win a goldfish

I agree Schmidt is a breath of fresh air. I happen to disagree with you re the offence taken at banal interviews. They are exactly what I expect.

Poor quality questions in the main from media journalists and pundits with an agenda to push and a deadline to hit, to produce a headline. Kidney gave them exactly what they deserved. He also didn't give the opposition any meaningful hints about what was going on in camp. Seems pretty astute given he did it consistently.

BBDBB

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Have to disagree with that. It's not what the media deserve either, without them Irish rugby would not be where it is today

That's ok. Our perceptions of the medias value are different

flutered

when kidney first got the job he got the squad togeather, banged some heads, then had a great season, next season against the scots they started well then bod got a nice try, it looked all over bar the partying, then whatever happened the side they just lay down, since then it was a case of stuttering from one display? to the next, this new coach needs to rectify this, it will not be easy, then it never is,
its like the joke about the kid in 1st year phycitary when asked to describe to following, he sits on a bench with his head in his hands, he then jumps up all excited jumping shouting an waving his hands, he then sits down muttering and mumbling to himself, after a while he jumps up and starts shouting and gestureing wildly, then he sits down again and the whole scene starts again, describe him to me asks the lecturer, the kid answers thats my basketball coach.

Kayless

Its hard to say what's going to happen in the AIs because although Schmidt's a great coach he might not have had enough time with the players but I am optimistic we will win 1 or 2 out of 3.

I think the match against NZ will go down to the wire like the second test last summer with NZ maybe nicking it in the end. I fully expect the performance and team moral to exceed anything we seen under Kidney, a fresh start will rejuvenate the players and getting off to a good start in the AI's should help sustain that going into next years 6 nations.

Artful_Badger

I cant see him sticking to Kidney's old method of secure ball, kick for territory and hope for the best. I hope he'll try to establish running rugby style on the team from the outset and the last time I seen that with Ireland as a gameplan was in 2010/11 I think which led to a lot of mistakes from failed offloads in the tackle, and Kidney panicking and reverting to kidneyball which we have been stuck with ever since. Hopefully Joe and his team will be better able to oversee the transition.

Kayless

flutered wrote: »

when kidney first got the job he got the squad togeather, banged some heads, then had a great season, next season against the scots they started well then bod got a nice try, it looked all over bar the partying, then whatever happened the side they just lay down, since then it was a case of stuttering from one display? to the next, this new coach needs to rectify this, it will not be easy, then it never is,
its like the joke about the kid in 1st year phycitary when asked to describe to following, he sits on a bench with his head in his hands, he then jumps up all excited jumping shouting an waving his hands, he then sits down muttering and mumbling to himself, after a while he jumps up and starts shouting and gestureing wildly, then he sits down again and the whole scene starts again, describe him to me asks the lecturer, the kid answers thats my basketball coach.

what??

DGRulz

My "Expectations Under Joe" ? Simple. A plan B. :P

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Swiwi. wrote: »

Might I be correct in surmising your good self and BBDBB hail from the more southern parts of the Republic. Awfully defensive there. Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. Anyway this is getting off thread, but if Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

Don't think there was any need for that comment Swiwi

phog

Like any lead up to a new season/competition I've a fresh hope of success and obviously with a new manager that has had so much success with Leinster then my hope is probably higher than usual.

It's not stretching it that we can win 2 from 3, I'd love 3 from 3 but I'm not sure we'd beat a competitive AB team.

For the 6Ns and at this moment in time I can't see us winning it, a Grand Slam would be great but I'm not that's easy either. BTW, I hope the Welsh game isn't somehow turned into a grudge game Ireland v The Welsh Lions.

DGRulz

phog wrote: »

Like any lead up to a new season/competition I've a fresh hope of success and obviously with a new manager that has had so much success with Leinster then my hope is probably higher than usual.

It's not stretching it that we can win 2 from 3, I'd love 3 from 3 but I'm not sure we'd beat a competitive AB team.

For the 6Ns and at this moment in time I can't see us winning it, a Grand Slam would be great but I'm not that's easy either. BTW, I hope the Welsh game isn't somehow turned into a grudge game Ireland v The Welsh Lions.

Of course it won't. It'll be BOD showing Gatland whats what

Kayless

In an ideal world we will beat NZ for the first time and cap it off with a Grand Slam by beating France in Paris

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Don't think there was any need for that comment Swiwi

OK. Mea culpa. I can't speak, and certainly don't intend to speak for anyone, but since your OP was expectations under Schmidt, one of mine is an informative press conference.

Clearly, other people were happy with Kidney's banalities, which I'm not.

phog

DGRulz wrote: »

Of course it won't. It'll be BOD showing Gatland whats what

That will even be worse. BTW, I'm more concerned about the media/pundits than the individuals involved

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Swiwi. wrote: »

OK. Mea culpa. I can't speak, and certainly don't intend to speak for anoyne, but since your OP was expectations under Schmidt, one of mine is an informative press conference.

Clearly, other people were happy with Kidney's banalities, which I'm not.

I agree about Kidney's banalities, just thought it was unfair that you had to play the "bet your from Munster" card straight away with BBDBB

Kayless

phog wrote: »

Like any lead up to a new season/competition I've a fresh hope of success and obviously with a new manager that has had so much success with Leinster then my hope is probably higher than usual.

It's not stretching it that we can win 2 from 3, I'd love 3 from 3 but I'm not sure we'd beat a competitive AB team.

For the 6Ns and at this moment in time I can't see us winning it, a Grand Slam would be great but I'm not that's easy either. BTW, I hope the Welsh game isn't somehow turned into a grudge game Ireland v The Welsh Lions.

Fack that I hope BOD scores a hat-trick and dedicates it to Gatland

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I agree about Kidney's banalities, just thought it was unfair that you had to play the "bet your from Munster" card straight away with BBDBB

Well, I'm sure he is! But yes, I have retracted.

Tox56

If Jonathan Davies and BOD both start at 13 in the Ireland-Wales game a massive amount of the pre match coverage will be dedicated to that, that's just how it is. I don't think it's going to somehow change the result of the match though

BBDBB

You seem to be hung up on peoples location in relation to their opinions, Siwi, that seems a bit of a red herring at best.

The thread is about the new Ireland coach. I genuinely don't care where he plied his trade before so long as he has a good pedigree of coaching quality, winning rugby. It was the same criteria I applied to Kidney on his arrival in the job. I was very happy with his appointment at the time, as I felt EOS had taken us as far as he could. Kidney took us further and then reached a point where he couldn't take us any further. As such I welcome Joes appointment and based on what I saw him do with Leinster in his tenure I am looking forward to him improving (dramatically) our side over a realistic and fair time.

You want there to be "interesting" comments to the media, fair enough, I hope you get your wish BUT I sincerely hope he is wise enough to realise the value of saying bland banalities to the media at times. Not everything Kidney did should be casually discarded and rejected, that would be foolish.

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

Well, I'm sure he is! But yes, I have retracted.

ahh, fair enough, no harm done

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Not referring to anything in particular Jm, just the few interviews he's given he seems a lot more frank and honest than Kidney who was a lot more reserved

Oh, so he has said nothing!

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Oh, so he has said nothing!

? He has given interviews, they're out there somewhere

Swiwi.

BBDBB wrote: »

You seem to be hung up on peoples location in relation to their opinions, Siwi, that seems a bit of a red herring at best.

The thread is about the new Ireland coach. I genuinely don't care where he plied his trade before so long as he has a good pedigree of coaching quality, winning rugby. It was the same criteria I applied to Kidney on his arrival in the job. I was very happy with his appointment at the time, as I felt EOS had taken us as far as he could. Kidney took us further and then reached a point where he couldn't take us any further. As such I welcome Joes appointment and based on what I saw him do with Leinster in his tenure I am looking forward to him improving (dramatically) our side over a realistic and fair time.

You want there to be "interesting" comments to the media, fair enough, I hope you get your wish BUT I sincerely hope he is wise enough to realise the value of saying bland banalities to the media at times. Not everything Kidney did should be casually discarded and rejected, that would be foolish.

All teams have video analysis etc these days. I doubt opposition coaches watch the press conferences hoping to glean tactics. I don't think anyone is expecting Schmidt to outline a gameplan to the nth degree for the coming weekend's match, but if he chooses Keatley ahead of Madigan as reserve flyhalf, or Boss ahead of Murray etc I like to know a bit of the reasoning behind it, that's all.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

? He has given interviews, they're out there somewhere

Kidney gave loads of interviews as well as most coaches and they all manage to say nothing, though in fairness to Schmidt I think he did say at some stage that he wasn't thinking of the world cup just yet.

BBDBB

Swiwi. wrote: »

All teams have video analysis etc these days. I doubt opposition coaches watch the press conferences hoping to glean tactics. I don't think anyone is expecting Schmidt to outline a gameplan to the nth degree for the coming weekend's match, but if he chooses Keatley ahead of Madigan as reserve flyhalf, or Boss ahead of Murray etc I like to know a bit of the reasoning behind it, that's all.

That's probably true, however that does define tactical information in a fairly limited way and is only one thing that could be gleaned from a press conference.

For example, attitude towards the opposition, their strengths are your concerns about the opposition and potential weaknesses that your own game plan may look to exploit. Any difficult selections made may give clues as to the tactics, bench, or players responses might give clues to mental states, injury concerns to be exploited or at extremes even problems in camp.

Its not an exact science, so, like you, Im not expecting Joe to hand over the playbook. But Im simply stating that in my view Kidney had it right in saying nothing other than bland platitudes. I realise the impact is less information for us, but given

1) I can see for myself the relative strengths of players vs others,
2) Im not privy to whats gone on in training re form and fitness
3) Its his job to make a choice and I can do nothing about it anyway its a price I was willing to pay

Quint2010

I expect he will have Ireland playing the type of high-tempo game he had Leinster playing. Of course it will be much harder to replicate on the international stage but then again in theory he will be training a higher standard quality pool of players. I don't think we will see many new caps for the AI's and to be honest I think results will be secondary. It took JS four or five games to get Leinster playing properly. He has a fraction of that time with the Ireland squad so I won't be expecting miracles.

jm08

Swiwi. wrote: »

Schmidt is a breath of fresh air as far as I'm concerned, I can't stand inane banal comments from coaches, not to mention the half-time "interviews" with players. If Schmidt can explain his selections not just fudge it, I for one will be happier.

Edit: Comment edited in line with feedback from posters

Has Schmidt explained his selections for Leinster? Sorry, I've just not noticed much of what he has had to say.

Joe has not had too many difficult questions anyway because of his success record with Leinster, though its surprising that he got off lightly after some poor Pro 12 Final results and no one said anything really about not making the QFs in the Heineken Cup last season.

Lets wait and see how he deals with a few losses.

Quint2010

jm08 wrote: »

Has Schmidt explained his selections for Leinster? Sorry, I've just not noticed much of what he has had to say.

Joe has not had too many difficult questions anyway because of his success record with Leinster, though its surprising that he got off lightly after some poor Pro 12 Final results and no one said anything really about not making the QFs in the Heineken Cup last season.

Lets wait and see how he deals with a few losses.

I think that's because he had won the Heineken Cup a week before contesting both the Pro 12 finals you talk about. As for last season-again Leinster's failure to reach the QF of the HC was more or less offset by winning the Pro 12 and The Amlin Cup.

Swiwi.

Quint2010 wrote: »

I think that's because he had won the Heineken Cup a week before contesting both the Pro 12 finals you talk about. As for last season-again Leinster's failure to reach the QF of the HC was more or less offset by winning the Pro 12 and The Amlin Cup.

Ah, you took the bait Quint2010 :mad:

Quint2010

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah, you took the bait Quint2010 :mad:

Yeah I know. But in fairness I think it is a valid question to ask ie why wasn't Schmidt criticised more for Leinster's HC failure last season. He got off lightly because he had a fair amount of credit in the bank.