Boating chit chat thread.

HeidiHeidi

And I've just seen that in the 2008/09, Jean Le Cam was rescued by the skipper of PRB - and he's now the one going to rescue the skipper of ...... PRB.


How's that for good karma!

neris

Those new vendee boats are like F1 cars being used for rallying. Every race the favourites have these high tech things that fall apart before they've reached half way. They're amazing machines but I think around the world is beyond their limits at times

AndyBoBandy

I think they're too finely tuned at this stage... Thompson already had to carry out critical structural repairs before the rudder broke!! Another boat has just sunk.

Are they sacrificing safety/structural integrity for that extra half a knot (although in these things it'd be more like an extra 2-3 knots)?

Back in 2009 I was working in France for a few months, and went to visit the submarine pens in Saint Nazairre, and low and behold a load of Imoca's were there having just completed the 2008/2009 edition, including race winner Fonica..

They really are serious bits of kit when you're up close and personal with them..






Theres a very good movie about a guy doing the Vendee Globe who picks up a stow-a-way while repairing his rudder called En Solitaire or Turning Tide, its worth a watch for anyone that can find it..
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2165236/

neris

Those 08/09 boats are probably still some machine for someone to run as regatta/offshore campaign boat for things like the caribean curcuts, med curcuit and Sydney Hobart but by vendee standards are in the dark ages. It was the same with Whitbread 60s when they came out in the mid 90s. The advances in technology & engineering in short spaces of time at the very top of sports like sailing & F1 is incredible. Even look at the giant multi hulls I remember in 93 watching Peter Blake trying to get an aging cat around the world in under 80 days which they did by a few days now the challenge is to get around in under 40 days

Daibheid

The tech is amazing but I agree the boat's are now stressed too much with minimal Factor of Safety so major failures are statistically quite likely when extreme situations combine.
I got to St. Nazaire a few years ago when the swinging keels were the New Thing or foils at the time. The boat's are stunning in scale and complexity but seeing one on a cradle and the size and length of the swinging keel I just couldn't imagine the stresses on the mechanism hour after hour day after day.
The current crop of failures really puts me in mind of the Fastnet disaster where the discussions at the time themed around boats being built to win the Fastnet etc and it and other offshores all usually being Summer weather. So boats were built to minimum weight.... We all know how that evolved and then when the gentle conditions of several years were disrupted by a Summer hurricane.
Apart from the risk to life which, singlehanders may diminish in terms of acceptability, the reality is because these boats do a lot of miles out of reach of SAR assets with recovery capability, one incident effectively wipes out the race when competitors have to divert as the only viable rescue option.
There have been many heroic feats and how no-one has died (remember Tony Bulmore) is way beyond lucky at this point. I think the sport is at risk of losing sponsorship and dying out if they don't rebalance between reliability and race speed and that's before some one does actually lose their life competing.
But it's not really a race after a single incident takes out multiple competitors so everyone loses.
In F1, all the support us right there when it goes wrong and almost all the variables are predictable for the race. The things you want to minimize to gain advantages are testable and can be modelled definitively in stress analysis Sims. The sea/weather are much less compliant and that's before you factor in floating debris, whales, etc which even the detection systems won't always pick up.

I'm a fan of bike road racing like the Isle of Man where I think in recent years the trend for the legends to die is really posing questions about the morality of the unrestricted sport. I think the Vendée isn't there yet but only one fatality away and that should be avoided. Not sure how but maybe some minimum weights for hulls, masts, etc or standardized components might be a start.

spaceHopper

Daibheid wrote: »

Not sure how but maybe some minimum weights for hulls, masts, etc or standardized components might be a start.

Was watching some youtube videos on Alex Thomsons channel, they have to have the same shape hull, keel and mast but the rule is that if it's not expressly forbidden then its allowed. His autohelm used AI to predict conditions ahead and to steer accordingly

AndyBoBandy

spaceHopper wrote: »

His autohelm used AI to predict conditions ahead and to steer accordingly

It didn't predict the big lump of something he hit that knackered one of his rudders*

*I know its almost impossible to avoid submerged objects, especially if sailing at 20+ knots...

Mick Tator

I agree that they are underbuilt/too light and that the envelope is being pushed too far but I think it is a step too far to include a comparison with FI. Motor racing has brought major inputs to 'ordinary' cars, I believe the same is not true of the link between Vendée-type boats and ordinary sailing or motor craft. In motor racing think of tech transfer such as
Aerodynamic design - compare a race and road car of the 1930's for streamlining - most road cars today are highly streamlined
Bodywork material- first aluminium, then a move to carbon fibre. OK, it's not common but the transition has started at the top end and some CF parts are integrated in modern cars.
Construction: anti ‘flex’ struts/members to make cars more rigid now common in road cars
Direct shift gearboxes & paddle shift transmissions - common in road vehicles and EVs
Disc brakes - were confined to race cars up to the 1950's
Independent suspension - McPherson everywhere now.
Press button starters (yes, they were around ‘before’ but the introduction of keyless ignition systems forced their return
Safety – roll cage technology for racecars transposed to passenger cars (integrated in roof & pillars)
Tyre technologies (wet/dry/allweather/crossover)
Twin cam engines

Other than a change in sail technology what else is there in yachts?

Daibheid

Autohelms have developed into a whole new generation of capability in recent years and can usually sail the boat better than a person. Of course this is probably increasing the stress on the boat's as they're now driven 10/10 continuosly.

Meanwhile the carnage continues with both Sébastien Simon and Sam Davies after sustaining foil and probably hull damage from striking objects in the water.

neris

While most boats mightnt havent got massive struts out the side or big foils alot of stuff from the vendee trickles down to production boats and custom builds for handicap racing. Hull shapes, build materials, sails and deck hardware get developed into produced over the cyber products

spaceHopper

The Vendee could well be on from the back of the fleet in an older board that is on it 3 or 4th time around. A boat folding is not good. Carbon fibre is funny it's incredibly strong on one direction and snaps like a twig in another.

HeidiHeidi

spaceHopper wrote: »

The Vendee could well be on from the back of the fleet in an older board that is on it 3 or 4th time around. A boat folding is not good. Carbon fibre is funny it's incredibly strong on one direction and snaps like a twig in another.

Exactly my thoughts..... the tortoises could do very well in this race!

neris

Be interesting to see how the french chap who went back to the start port a few days in to the race does and how much he catches up. i know hes a good bit back but with this race youd never know however id reckon a podium is out of the question

the beer revolu

To be honest, when sailing at 20 - 30 knots 24/7, if you take into account the amount of floating and semi floating debris in the oceans, I think you are goosed if you hit anything unless you are in a steel ship!.

I can't see any amount of reasonable strengthening doing much good when your keel, foil or rudder hits a barrel at 25knots - or even a shipping container.

Long way of saying that I don't think there is any way to make sailing single handed at high speed safe from collisions.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.google.com/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/sailing/sydney-hobart/sydney-to-hobart-yacht-race-2020-race-in-doubt-northern-beaches-covid19-outbreak-cancelled-sailing-latest-news/news-story/9bfb7d71e83aa8fc04f82d076e3974ad

Sydney-Hobart race falls victim to Covid

neris

Not surprising and im sure it won't be the last big race to be cancelled in the next few months.

Tabnabs

:pac::pac::pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvoOK9JFEWA

HeidiHeidi

Tabnabs wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvoOK9JFEWA

I was wondering how long it'd take!

neris

An amateur sailor is building his own boat at home in Co Wicklow to fulfil a lifelong dream of sailing solo across the Atlantic.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0108/1188545-sailor-pandemic-wicklow/

neris

1st big casualty of 2021

https://afloat.ie/sail/sailing-clubs/royal-ocean-racing-club/item/49001-2021-rorc-caribbean-600-is-cancelled

AndyBoBandy

better off just cancelling everything, and if anything can go ahead, like DL, Wave etc... just do it at short(ish) notice, and encourage local boats only..

I know it's sh1t and all, but 2021 will be no different to 2020 in terms of events being cancelled.. so might as well just accept it now.

neris

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

better off just cancelling everything, and if anything can go ahead, like DL, Wave etc... just do it at short(ish) notice, and encourage local boats only..

I know it's sh1t and all, but 2021 will be no different to 2020 in terms of events being cancelled.. so might as well just accept it now.

2021 is just going to be like 2020 I can't see life returning to 2019 tots year wheter its sports, travel, pubs or shopping. We,ll probably get club racing or local regattas with no afters in the host club. Can see things like the fastnet been called off and possibly the DL regatta & soverigns

AndyBoBandy

neris wrote: »

2021 is just going to be like 2020

I pretty much accepted this fate back in November when the plan to open for Christmas was unveiled.... but hey, at least it was a ‘meaningful’ Christmas......

Beat I can hope for this year is some half decent weather to get out for a few nice spins, and perhaps a few overnights up and down the coast... maybe Carlingford or Greystones/Arklow...

oceanman

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I pretty much accepted this fate back in November when the plan to open for Christmas was unveiled.... but hey, at least it was a ‘meaningful’ Christmas......

Beat I can hope for this year is some half decent weather to get out for a few nice spins, and perhaps a few overnights up and down the coast... maybe Carlingford or Greystones/Arklow...

heres hoping, where are you based?

AndyBoBandy

oceanman wrote: »

heres hoping, where are you based?

Sail out of Malahide.

That reminds me, I must get a letter from them so I can go and check on the boat as it's 10km away!! And it's checkpoint city lately!!!

oceanman

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Sail out of Malahide.

That reminds me, I must get a letter from them so I can go and check on the boat as it's 10km away!! And it's checkpoint city lately!!!

ah lovely spot, miss the sailing myself. enjoy.

Tabnabs

The most pointless and off-putting words on a boat advert.

too many features to list

neris

Tabnabs wrote: »

The most pointless and off-putting words on a boat advert.

As someone who's been looking for a new boat last while id really want to know what the extras are just so i don't need to go get a life raft, elecrics & nav systems

neris

When your americas cup boat sponsored by Airbus goes like a Boeing 737 max

Inquitus

The America's Cup has been a good watch so far, INEOS Team UK have come from nowhere in the 2020 Xmas regatta to be unbeatable just a few short weeks later in the Prada Cup, currently running 4 from 4 and only requiring one more win over Luna Rosa to make it directly into the Prada Cup final likely against the winner of a Semi Final between Luna Rosa and American Magic.

The Americans face a tough deadline to rebuild their boat and get it back out in time for the SF's which start on Friday 29th January. They had a massive lead over LR in the race in which they crashed, but instead of taking the right hand gate with an easier manouveur they decided to do a Tack Bear away around the left mark, resulting in the spectacular footage of their boat taking off and crashing down on its side, ripping a hole in the boat below the water line where the Carbon could not take the pressures applied to it and popped.

Team UK have a dedicated Tactican in Giles Scott who works really well with Helmsman Ben Ainslie, the winds have been shifty for the most part and while the other teams have different solutions, having a dedicated Tactician seems to be a masterstroke at this point. American Magics Tactician Terry Hutchinson is also a grinder and has a lot to concentrate on bar finding the breeze, and LR have gone with having 2 helmsmen depending on what tack they are on.