Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Blut2

The half of Blackrock mainstreet from the pedestrian lights at SherryFitz/where Cafe Java was up to Wetherspoons could definitely support a complete pedestrianization - just re-route the 114/17 slightly and it would be easily done. Theres very rarely any trouble, its lively enough, and there are enough hospitality businesses along there to benefit hugely from it. It'd be a fantastic 'village' atmosphere in summer.

That section of Georges St in Dun Laoghaire though has more dodgy characters, is quieter, and has a lot fewer hospitality units though. Hopefully pedestrianization drives change, but I'd worry slightly. No harm in at least trialing it though.

coylemj

If the westbound (heading to town) 46A and 75 are routed back along Crofton Road and up Clarence ST. (retracing the outbound route), they will need to convert the junction at the bottom of Marine Road (Hartleys restaurant/Meadows & Byrne) to a roundabout to allow the buses to do a U-turn.

Larbre34

coylemj wrote: »

If the westbound (heading to town) 46A and 75 are routed back along Crofton Road and up Clarence ST. (retracing the outbound route), they will need to convert the junction at the bottom of Marine Road (Hartleys restaurant/Meadows & Byrne) to a roundabout to allow the buses to do a U-turn.

No, they could use the Harbour Roundabout as many buses do.

I don't think it should come to that though. It removes bus services from both shopping centres and the main shopping area. A big mistake.

coylemj

Blut2 wrote: »

The half of Blackrock mainstreet from the pedestrian lights at SherryFitz/where Cafe Java was up to Wetherspoons could definitely support a complete pedestrianization - just re-route the 114/17 slightly and it would be easily done. Theres very rarely any trouble, its lively enough, and there are enough hospitality businesses along there to benefit hugely from it. It'd be a fantastic 'village' atmosphere in summer.

But there's plenty of businesses in Blackrock which are not on the main street and a lot of them rely on shoppers who park behind the Wicked Wolf and along Idrone Tce. The fact that they didn't completely close the main st. to cars was, I believe, a concession to those visitors.

Mav11

coylemj wrote: »

A three month 'trial' in the middle of summer (when it's bright until almost 11 p.m.) is all very well.

But IIRC the problem that arose the last time they did this was that on winter evenings with no passing cars or buses, Georges St. was deserted and the centre of DL was a ghost town after dark because a lot of people (esp. lone women) didn't feel safe walking on empty streets.

Yes, I couldn't see it being viable beyond the end of September at the latest, but in the meantime it could be fantastic.

Mav11

coylemj wrote: »

But there's plenty of businesses in Blackrock which are not on the main street and a lot of them rely on shoppers who park behind the Wicked Wolf and along Idrone Tce. The fact that they didn't completely close the main st. to cars was, I believe, a concession to those visitors.

I'm just back from Blackrock (I cycled), there's lot of outdoor cooking and BBQing on Main St. and Georges Ave. It lends to a great atmosphere and buzz around the village! It has to be good for trade.

coylemj

Larbre34 wrote: »

I don't think it should come to that though. It removes bus services from both shopping centres and the main shopping area. A big mistake.

+1 it will result in a mass movement of city-bound passengers from the stops on Marine Road and (on Georges St.) outside Argos, they will all now have to troop down to the railway station. Where there will be chaos and congestion.

coylemj

Mav11 wrote: »

I'm just back from Blackrock (I cycled), there's lot of outdoor cooking and BBQing on Main St. and Georges Ave. It lends to a great atmosphere and buzz around the village! It has to be good for trade.

It's great for the businesses who serve food and are located along the main st. What about the traders on George's Ave. or up in the Frascati SC?

The point is currently being made by traders in Dublin City that these new regulations principally serve one sector (cafes and restaurants) but in many cases, they make access more difficult for customers who patronise other businesses.

GT89

Blut2 wrote: »

The half of Blackrock mainstreet from the pedestrian lights at SherryFitz/where Cafe Java was up to Wetherspoons could definitely support a complete pedestrianization - just re-route the 114/17 slightly and it would be easily done. Theres very rarely any trouble, its lively enough, and there are enough hospitality businesses along there to benefit hugely from it. It'd be a fantastic 'village' atmosphere in summer.

That section of Georges St in Dun Laoghaire though has more dodgy characters, is quieter, and has a lot fewer hospitality units though. Hopefully pedestrianization drives change, but I'd worry slightly. No harm in at least trialing it though.

But then you'd take away the 17 and 144 connection to the DART taking away an intermodal connection something which Dublin is already severely lacking. Routing buses onto Idrone terrace would be a tight squeeze and likely cause delays.

Mav11

coylemj wrote: »

It's great for the businesses who serve food and are located along the main st. What about the traders on George's Ave. or up in the Frascati SC?

The point is currently being made by traders in Dublin City that these new regulations principally serve one sector (cafes and restaurants) but in many cases, they make access more difficult for customers who patronise other businesses.

Which is the point that was made in earlier posts i.e. hospitality vs non hospitality business and the difficulty facing councils in bringing in any changes, due to bickering between these different factors.

It is however in my belief misguided and that by attracting people to the area, through on street food, pedestrianisation etc. all businesses benefit, including those in Frascati SC.

Blut2

coylemj wrote: »

But there's plenty of businesses in Blackrock which are not on the main street and a lot of them rely on shoppers who park behind the Wicked Wolf and along Idrone Tce. The fact that they didn't completely close the main st. to cars was, I believe, a concession to those visitors.

Cars could still park on Idrone terrace or behind the Wicked Wolf with that portion of the main street pedestrianized - there would be access both from Idrone terrace itself and from the main street from Diep North-wards.

GT89 wrote: »

But then you'd take away the 17 and 144 connection to the DART taking away an intermodal connection something which Dublin is already severely lacking. Routing buses onto Idrone terrace would be a tight squeeze and likely cause delays.

The 17 and 114 could both route down Rock Hill (past Blackrock Cellar) to the DART station if that small one-way portion was restored to two-way. (or just made two-way bus-access only).

Larbre34

The Council are taking online submissions about it, I've just made one.

GT89

"Blut2 wrote: »

The 17 and 114 could both route down Rock Hill (past Blackrock Cellar) to the DART station if that small one-way portion was restored to two-way. (or just made two-way bus-access only).

Or they could make the whole main street bus only one way, keep the 7/a on the bypass and enforce it with bus bollards. That way could have the village pedestrianised without large quantities of buses going through it.

Burt Renaults

Larbre34 wrote: »

They can not drive to places close to home.

Dun Laoghaire is a day out on summer weekends. Someone living in Cabinteely or Ballinteer is going to pack the family into the car and walk the pier and have a Teddy's ice cream.

Yes, some will cycle and hopefully Public Transport capacity will be closer to normal. But discouraging cars altogether is foolish and damaging.

They can pack their family onto a bus instead. Far better than clogging the roads up with their oversized cars. Someone living in Cabinteely or Ballinteer has plenty of public transport options. On the average sunny Sunday afternoon, Dún Laoghaire is completely clogged with cars - which prevents buses from moving, and in many cases results in curtailments.

GT89

Burt Renaults wrote: »

They can pack their family onto a bus instead. Far better than clogging the roads up with their oversized cars. Someone living in Cabinteely or Ballinteer has plenty of public transport options. On the average sunny Sunday afternoon, Dún Laoghaire is completely clogged with cars - which prevents buses from moving, and in many cases results in curtailments.

Not great atm with the reduced capacity on buses. Although buses in the UK are now back to full loads so hopefully Ireland won't be too far behind and 50% capacity causes less issues than 25%. The 75 seems to often have capacity issues at weekends in the summer even during normal times.

Burt Renaults

GT89 wrote: »

Not great atm with the reduced capacity on buses. Although buses in the UK are now back to full loads so hopefully Ireland won't be too far behind and 50% capacity causes less issues than 25%. The 75 seems to often have capacity issues at weekends in the summer even during normal times.

Many of those capacity issues, especially on Sunday afternoons and early evenings, are caused by the previous bus getting curtailed as a result of being stuck in traffic on the way into or out of Dún Laoghaire. If buses could move freely into and out of the town, there would be no capacity issues whatsoever.

Larbre34

Burt Renaults wrote: »

Many of those capacity issues, especially on Sunday afternoons and early evenings, are caused by the previous bus getting curtailed as a result of being stuck in traffic on the way into or out of Dún Laoghaire. If buses could move freely into and out of the town, there would be no capacity issues whatsoever.

Evidence for that?

Burt Renaults

Larbre34 wrote: »

Evidence for that?

What, like photographic evidence? No, just first-hand experience of 75s being curtailed every sunny weekend afternoon because they got stuck in traffic on the way into Dún Laoghaire on their previous journey.

duploelabs

Burt Renaults wrote: »

What, like photographic evidence? No, just first-hand experience of 75s being curtailed every sunny weekend afternoon because they got stuck in traffic on the way into Dún Laoghaire on their previous journey.

So anecdotal 'evidence'

Burt Renaults

duploelabs wrote: »

So anecdotal 'evidence'

First-hand experience.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, but they are restricted, delayed, limited, frustrated. One experience like that and the punters won't choose to come back.

Really? One experience being stuck in a queue of others driving mostly with four empty seats around them and they'll change their approach. Strange how that doesn't seem to happen in rush hour, or in the queues to approach Dundrum Town Centre or any other attraction. Strange how people are quite happy to spend interminable time in traffic queues for all kinds of purposes, but suddenly when a bike lane appears, all hell breaks loose?

Larbre34 wrote: »

This guy Burns is a massive zealot.

Yes, I know, it's great, isn't it?

Larbre34

As ever, the public reaction and the Councillors will decide.

patrickbrophy18

I think the reroute of the 75 and especially, the 46A will have a smoother entrance from Clarence Street to York Road instead of the more or less 90 degree turn it currently takes from Georges Street Lower.

The rest of the measures are a bit a mixture of good and bad. The current one way system could be considered confusing as it abruptly changes directions from north bound to south bound at the junction of Park Road. If you're going to have a one way system, at least have one road dedicated entirely to northbound (e.g R119 from Sandycove northwards) and the other dedicated to southbound (e.g N31/ R831 from Blackrock southwards) thereby forming a large cohesive loop.

After implementation, add more bus routes to capitalize on the new system as well as curbing a build up of cars and other congestion as much as possible. Anyway, that is my take on the matter.

Burt Renaults

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I think the reroute of the 75 and especially, the 46A will have a smoother entrance from Clarence Street to York Road instead of the more or less 90 degree turn it currently takes from Georges Street Lower.

Clarence St will need to be realigned. When traffic towards Dún Laoghaire is heavy, buses coming around this corner from the station have no choice but to either wait until it's safe to cross the solid white line, or mount the pavement. Most tend to do the latter, which is an accident waiting to happen.

patrickbrophy18

Burt Renaults wrote: »

Clarence St will need to be realigned. When traffic towards Dún Laoghaire is heavy, buses coming around this corner from the station have no choice but to either wait until it's safe to cross the solid white line, or mount the pavement. Most tend to do the latter, which is an accident waiting to happen.

Ah yeah. However, I would say the realignment would be minor given that there is ample space at this point of the road to work with (that is, if Google Earth measuring tools are anything to go by ).

Larbre34

Who gives a shyt about any of that? They are talking about moving the bus services further away from those who need them most.

The geometry of it has damn all to do with anything.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Remember though, even when it was done originally from 2002, Buses and Taxis were never stopped from using George's Street. Morning deliveries were also facilitated.

This guy Burns is a massive zealot.

It’s great to have someone with a vision. Who wants to make a difference, you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

The status quo could not carry on, especially with the constant infilling

Burt Renaults

Larbre34 wrote: »

Who gives a shyt about any of that? They are talking about moving the bus services further away from those who need them most.

The geometry of it has damn all to do with anything.

Only two current bus stops will be affected. The one outside the old Shopping Centre (which will still be served by the 45a and 7) and the one outside Bloomfields/Argos. It's a very short distance down to the train station from Marine Rd, or to Clarence St from Lwr George's St.

Ensuring that the roads are suitably aligned for >10.5m public service vehicles to safely negotiate before implementing any changes is absolutely vital.

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

It’s great to have someone with a vision. Who wants to make a difference, you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

The status quo could not carry on, especially with the constant infilling

Disagree. He will overreach and turn the Community against him. Not what is needed.

You have to bring people along, not bash them over the head.

I won't be convinced that DL needs a new public plaza AND the adjoining section of Street closed off. Certainly not at the cost of public transport accessing the spots it is needed most.

fixXxer

Burt Renaults wrote: »

Only two current bus stops will be affected. The one outside the old Shopping Centre (which will still be served by the 45a and 7) and the one outside Bloomfields/Argos. It's a very short distance down to the train station from Marine Rd, or to Clarence St from Lwr George's St.

Ensuring that the roads are suitably aligned for >10.5m public service vehicles to safely negotiate before implementing any changes is absolutely vital.

The worst part about that is we won't get to see drivers who can't read road marking panic reversing away from a bus taking its left turn out if dun Laoghaire.