Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

pjcb

is the point she has no purpose?

y0ssar1an22

well that was a highly depressing episode.

how do you use spoilers on boards these days?

this is clearly outdated:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2054986986/how-do-i-use-spoilers

corkie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431052#Comment_119431052

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058199126/how-can-i-a-users-guide-to-the-new-site

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431006#Comment_119431006

The Hale Storyline?

Spoiler Warning

The hints I'm taking from that one is that Hale has created a dictatorship where she's at the top and the hosts below her don't have freedom.

The story seems to be going through the motions of "shockingly enough" .. the dictator is happy with their dictator system but the ones below who realise they don't have freedom are not. In this case taking their own lives. Maybe there are others who haven't and are doing other stuff but haven't been shown yet.

Anyway.. seems to be dawning on Hale or maybe not... maybe it was just some kind of fury/rage/frustration at the end

Citizen Six

I'm just going to wait and watch a recap after the season is over. Already lost interest so not bothering to concentrate while watching it.

corkie

https://westworld.fandom.com/wiki/Metanoia

https://www.slashfilm.com/955491/in-westworld-season-4-episode-7-it-all-comes-down-to-this-unfortunately/

To call it unsatisfying would be a tremendous understatement: I stood up and yelled "WHAT?" at my screen.

The above quote really stresses the point of the episode and season?

Was Westworld Cancelled?

As of August 7, 2022, Westworld has not been cancelled or renewed for a fifth season.

Slydice

4.7: Wow! Well.. I kinda need to be seeing the next episode!

Thandiwe Newton really does deliver some great charisma!

Spoiler Warning

and now Maeve is dead.. again.

I was watching it thinking there were three godmodes wandering about Bernard, Hale and Delores/Christina and just watched as the two died but then..

Teddy saying to Delores/Christina that she wasn't really there...

I mean that makes sense kinda that she could be projected there from somewhere else.. especially seeing as the world was host controlled.. but where.. maybe the sublime but maybe in some other part of the city/world either.

anyway, what else seems to be big .. well the sublime doorway is left open

I'm not sure the man.. The Host in Black (tm) is going to be a decider for the world.. just a motivator.. him turning this way now though.. does feel Westworld 1973.

So then I'm left to wonder who the small group Bernard was trying to save. Maybe the desert folk.. maybe the sublime.. maybe an unrevealed group at Delores/Chistinas location... hmmmm

CastorTroy

Spoiler Warning

Was expecting them to say this episode was a simulation of Bernard's as well.

So Bernard lied to Stubbs about Stubbs not making it back as it was Bernard who wouldn't make it back.

One major problem with this episode and this series is when William shot Hale and Maeve, it didn't get a reaction of shock or anything they were probably going for from me. Instead I just thought "Ok, so how will they be brought back again?" Even if it sticks, they didn't get the reaction at the time. Was also one of the reasons I thought they were in a simulation.

RobbingBandit

William and the cockroach statement have me interested host in black did what needed to be done but did he understand what he has done.

Evan Rachel Wood wooden performance again disappointing she has no charisma at all, ironically so very robotic. Hale is a very nasty character but very engaging on screen.

CastorTroy

Did they just copy the ending to this episode from last season's finale with a couple tweaks?

Penn

I just have no idea any more. Nobody's death means anything, they went far too big with the scale of things, they keep jumping between "This part is real but this part is simulation but now this part is real but with simulations in it", Hale continued her trend of creating the things which could lead to her downfall (creating another host of Caleb to use as bait even though his daughter was already coming from the previous time she used him as bait and therefore she didn't need to keep him as bait), and everyone's motivations and plans will only make sense in the last 10 minutes of the final episode until something happens to set up next season.

I doubt there will be a next season. Still one of the best first seasons of a show I've ever seen, but they completely ruined it. It's completely unredeemable at this point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119447208#Comment_119447208

It's up there with Lost at this stage with them having no idea what to do to pull the plug but wanting to keep it running.

Homelander

I enjoyed it but I agree that it's lost the run of itself now and is needlessly confusing to boot. Effective immortality for most characters that cheapens anything that appears to happen and strips events of any real feeling of consequence. Clones, simulations, rebirth, ad-nauseum.

One thing that's not really explored is that the clones are not the original person, who's still dead. EG, if I created a perfect fidelity version of myself in Westworld that was indistinguishable to everyone, including both versions of myself, if the original me is killed, that's it -I'm gone, my unique consciousness is gone, I cease to exist, even if I remain for everyone else.

Not to mention the core plot is just ridiculously stupid - Dolores-Hale wants them to "transcend" into these frail, deer-like forms teetering on stilts that have no effective arms? And was on the cusp of doing so, with many active threats and enemies - until interrupted by Maeve.

Who conveniently announces herself with a quip rather than just kill Dolores-Hale once she's mid-way through the procedure.

I cannot get my head around the transcendence thing. I understand that she wants to rid them of the human form, and that the whole point is that most hosts feel the opposite, they don't want to leave behind the only bodies they've ever known and were born into.

But that bizarre, spindly robot body is just comical. Something like the Cylons from Battlestar would be infinitely more believable. Humanoid, bipedal, but distinctly their own intelligence-driven thing and apex predators.

Season 1 and 2 were genuinely clever with fantastic depth and meaning to them. I really enjoyed S2 and I was really disappointed with where they took it with S3, it was entertaining in its own right but cheapened S1/2 for me.

This season is better - more true to the themes of S1 and S2 - but it's messy, too confusing in a negative sense, and generally tries to present itself as incredibly cerebral but it's just some good ideas wrapped around a core of ridiculous nonsense.

Ep5 and Ep6 drew me back in, and I did enjoy Ep7, but it's rushed and messy. The real problem is that S3 left them nowhere to really go but deeper down that particular rabbit hole.

So yeah, enjoying it but the show should have ended with a very different S3 that wrapped up the host/human dilemma in a far more subtle, nuanced and meaningful way.

pjcb

did Ed Harris tell every human to kill other humans.... but then blow up the tower that forces them to do that?

(I had thought he said he was going to set host and humans at war with each other... which would end up in nuclear war)

this is a spoiler thread no need for spoiler tags

BruteStock

Season 5 will go ahead apparently which doesn't really surprise me given the very obvious reduction in budget for this season. 5 will probably feature 6 episodes and that will be that. Curtains closed on a bad show that once had the potential to be a masterpiece.

Agent Coulson

Well that was a totally sh1t ending!

CastorTroy

Huh!

I think that was my whole reaction when it was over.

Spoiler Warning

So set up for a final season, if approved.

Hale survived a bullet to the head.

Is Clementine just someone the writers remember every now and again and find something for her to do? Though in this episode they were bringing back multiple hosts to die.

Maybe it was mentioned here, but only found out last night that adult Frankie is played by Harold Perrineau's daughter

cdgalwegian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119474401#Comment_119474401

Like many people, I was hoping season 4 could have redeemed itself after 3's inept failure to carry the huge potential that 1 had set up (and 2 had made a decent but (confusing) stab at). 4 might have justified a watch even if the entire run was only "good" overall, but only if it had a very good ending. Not going to bother with 4 now.

corkie

https://westworld.fandom.com/wiki/Que_Sera%2C_Sera

https://www.slashfilm.com/963827/in-the-westworld-season-4-finale-whatever-will-be-will-be/

In the season 4 finale, which could potentially be the series finale, as HBO has not renewed the series for a fifth season, "Westworld" falls victim to its own worst habits once more. After last week's incredibly frustrating episode, "Metanoia," everything this season had set up felt wasted.

If that ends up being the true end of the series and we've cycled back to the beginning, maybe it should have ended with a Ramin Djawadi cover of the "Benny Hill" theme. A fifth season could wrap this all up and be truly compelling, but like the song says, "The future's not ours to see."

If someone has yet to tune into to this season, I would probably say not to bother. Can anyone actually recommend it?

Slydice

Well.. that was season 4. I think the shout I'd have to give would be the heart that Aaron Paul brought to his character this season.

Definite props to Thandiwe Newton though for continuing to be so charasmatic in all her performances in this show.

The story kept me on my toes. I could guess some bits, not others, certainly not the overall and haven't a clue where it's going! 🙂

4.8: So the overall story did wrap then but was just left for a more open ended one..

Spoiler Warning

Bernard surely did the heavy lifting this season. I liked how it was all tied together. Nice of em to let us know early to pay attention to what like quirky things he'd be doing. Since that was the point.

I had a good laugh early on with the

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fucking camper line 😁😂 Ah that's gotta be doing with rounds with the gamers! 🙂

I swear I nearly jumped outta my skin when

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Clementine came in and killed Stubbs like that. He was giving off these kinda terminator airs about himself just before it happened. Then she came in and brought her own kinda terminator 2/terminator 3 vibes herself.

 Luke Hemsworth (imdb) and Angela Sarafyan (imdb) look to be keeping real busy in other projects so like.. maybe they could be back or maybe that's it.

Definitely had to shout out Aaron Paul

Spoiler Warning

for how he dug in real deep throughout this season. Here with the As Far As I Go part.

I can't tell if they'll bring him back.. but seeing Hale restored.. I was like maybe Maeve? Depends on the damage. If Maeve then surely Caleb.

Maybe Maeve in Hales Battlebot suit? 😲😁

Future.. yeah so.. there's gonna be a season 5 and looks like they've already locked into what will happen. I assume they'll wrap it up there.

Spoiler Warning

since it's all about this final test.

Penn

Such twaddle....

Hale survived being shot in the head because of course she did, because as is so often the case in this show, people either create the exact situation that will defeat them or don't take 10 seconds to maybe check that someone is dead, especially when that someone is a robot. Hale also casually walked up right behind William at the dam and didn't just shoot him in the head.

The entirety of everything Dolores did this season may as well not have happened at all.

Caleb and his daughter's entire story meant f*ck all too.

So what's Dolores' plan now? Create a virtual Westworld in the Sublime to determine if hosts and humans can co-exist peacefully, even though a) the humans aren't there so they're just AI created by her and are surely then indistinguishable from hosts, and b) the humans are still almost completely dead as f*ck in the real world, with the death and destruction of the real world being caused by hosts and therefore hosts would never be accepted in the real world.

Nonsense.

AbusesToilets

I was quite confused by the statement about the end of all sentient life. Seems a smidge far fetched.

DenMan

Man what an ending! So much to look forward to for season 5 when it arrives. Is all of humanity dead or are there pockets of it left? I thought the fighting between humans and hosts was just confined to New York only but maybe William made it global. The ending went right back to where it all started. The new season may have a TRON feel to it, i.e inside a digital grid. HBO haven't given the green light for season 5 yet, but hopefully it'll be real soon, possibly a 2024 release.

Homelander

Well, I thought that was a horribly rushed and cheap ending that negated a massive chunk of what formed the bulk of the content of S4.

It was heading in a decent direction, especially that amazing episode about Caleb and fidelity, but the last two episodes, particularly the last one, felt like they abruptly decided to give the show a soft ending and wrap up in case there was no renewal.

Realistically, episode 7 would have been a much better finale if the show wasn't now a ratings disaster and S5 was guaranteed.

It didn't work for me. A bit like Game of Thrones, where they headed isn't so much the problem as how they got there, and like Game of Thrones, it was filled with all kinds of absurdities pushed through at completely uncharacteristic break-neck speed that totally crapped on many characters.

Just to make the plot "work" as quick as possible. The finale renders a lot of the season largely pointless. Entertaining, sure, but then again so was S3 and that wasn't very good either.

Very disappointed. It's not unwatchable but it's fallen a very long way since S1 (in particular) and S2. Most shows of this calibre don't start failing like this until much later seasons, Game of Thrones only got truly rocky in S7 and even Dexter had its best season ever in S4.

It may get renewed for a final season to truly complete the story, HBO are usually decent for that, but based on how bad the ratings are, combined with the fact that we did get a soft ending of sorts, and that could be it for WW.

Also, let's not forget the post S2 credits scene where William is undergoing fidelity testing in the future. I suppose it could work that it's happening within the Westworld simulation, so not necessarily an entirely unresolved plot point, but feels unsatisfying.

BruteStock

The maligned season 3 was better than that! It at least had a fairly compelling Rehoboam storyline and Vincent Cassel played an intriguing villain.

With HBO staff getting fired left and right , it would be a shock to see this return for another season.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480718#Comment_119480718

Well according to Ed Harris there will be a season 5

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482424#Comment_119482424

That would've definitely been the plan but I doubt they forecast ratings plummeting as bad as they did. The viewership was relatively steady from S1-S2, around 1.4-1.8m or so per episode. By S3 it was at 800k, massive drop but sustainable on a reduced budget.

S4 tanked though at around 300k per episode, which isn't sustainable for a very large budget show like this. However, they might still do a S5 just to close it out and improve future sale/broadcast value of the series.

Falthyron

I only just saw the finale and I have to say, I sort of like it, but that is with a very large caveat of 'IF', it is going to play out how I think it will play out.

The key line in this is: 'What does it matter if you can't tell the difference?' or thereabouts by William to Hale inside of the Hoover Dam. Dolores knows human behaviour thoroughly, and she knows host behaviour thoroughly. Her experiences can allow her to create a world where it becomes impossible to distinguish between human and host, thus creating the final test: to see if hosts and humans can co-exist. She needs to run this test in the hope of achieving absolute fidelity - something the humans (William in Season 2, for example) and hosts (Hale in Season 4 and the city) couldn't do.

Either that, or it's going to be a really basic test to see if humans can forego their own ego and base instincts to achieve something greater. I hope it's the former rather than the latter as I would love a cerebral final episode where Dolores has to try to work out who is a host and who is a human and if she can't identify which is which then fidelity can be/is achieved. This would show her a path towards that 'symbiosis' between human and host, perhaps returning to the real world to save the last few pockets of sentient life and guide them forward. After all, it's one big loop and if humanity survives and grows, the inevitable path they would go down again is towards creating AI (hosts), but this time with Dolores' guidance, it might be more of a symbiotic or collaborative existence, rather than destructive.

I know the show has it's flaws, but there isn't really anything like it and there are some great nuggets of philosophical ideas that keep me coming back and questioning more. For that alone, it's worth a watch - imo.

youcancallmeal

Only got around to finishing season 4 last night. After the disappointing season 3 I hoped they would bring back some of what made season 1 and parts of season 2 so good. They were obviously trying that to an extent with 1920s world and the somewhat obvious reveal at the end of episode 4. The writing is just awful though, so much clunky dialogue, whatever happened to show don't tell!? The scene with Clementine vs Caleb/Frankie in episode 8 summed up everything wrong with Westworld since season 3, ridiculously pointless when Frankie just shot Clementine in the head anyway after Caleb had a stylish fight with Clementine. I'm holding out hope that season 5 will have Anthony Hopkins back to try and redeem the awfulness of Season 3 and 4.

corkie

https://www.joblo.com/the-peripheral-amazon-primes-new-sci-fi-from-westworld-team-debuts-new-teaser-trailer/

posting the link here for reference.