Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

Penn

ixoy wrote: »

Myself, and others, were mostly saying that earlier on in the season when it seemed like there was a plan (with the various Delores) and happy to see them trying something new.
I doubt many would be giving the same praise when they saw it turned out to be a mess in the end. I had hopes but the writers dashed them in the end with a rubbish "twist" and weak characterisation.

Agreed. There were some great scenes and episodes early in the season, and the expectations that it might lead somewhere great were promising. But it faltered as it went on, trying to pull unearned twists and reversals in character motivations. Repeating the same mistake as Season 2 by trying so hard to conceal what it's doing at every step to serve a big reveal at the end, but the end reveal not being good enough to deserve it. Admittedly, at least the end reveal and character motivations weren't as needlessly complicated and generally f*cky as Season 2, but it was still weak as p*ss.

Season 1 worked so well because by the time of the big reveal, you could see how every step made in the show led to it. In the last two seasons though, it comes across more as "Those steps you thought were going in one direction... BOOM! They were going in another direction the whole time!" It leads to hugely inconsistent characters who spend half the time being psychic in being able to read people and plan against them, and half the time being dumb as pig sh*t. Their motivations going one way, then revealing they were actually going the other way the whole time. The first season was like a game of chess. Now it feels like a game of Cluedo, where characters wander around aimlessly until it was revealed it was Rev.Green in the Kitchen with a spanner for reasons even Rev.Green probably doesn't fully understand.

I still somewhat enjoy the show for what it is, but it's also no longer what it was, and at this point it never will reach that again.

nc6000

glasso wrote: »

the beloved echo chamber is no more

But if we're all complaining about Westworld now that still makes it an echo chamber - doesn't it?

pixelburp

ixoy wrote: »

Myself, and others, were mostly saying that earlier on in the season when it seemed like there was a plan (with the various Delores) and happy to see them trying something new.
I doubt many would be giving the same praise when they saw it turned out to be a mess in the end. I had hopes but the writers dashed them in the end with a rubbish "twist" and weak characterisation.

Exactly, it's not hard to fathom. Season 3 promised a new, interesting direction with a structure that seemed less labyrinthine and punchier. It even suggested we might get normal human beings in the story. Instead it disappointed and reverted to indistinct puffery.

And also, there's no echo chamber here: people are entitled to their opinions, be they positive or negative. If people enjoy the show and can articulate why? Bully for them. If people hate the show and can articulate why? Bully for them too. Both sides can debate in good spirit without losing "side".

Snarky GIFs aren't particularly constructive in any direction

leggo

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Dolores' chip on her shoulder towards humanity over the ill treatment of the robots by humans when she was in the park makes sense from her perspective, but it is totally nonsensical from the human perspective - because the humans that did all the nasty stuff didn't realise they were doing it to a sentient being. It would be like an NPC in a Grand Theft Auto game acquiring sentience and vowing revenge on the gamers that ran them over for fun. Or a vibrator that gains sentience and demands vengeance over being 'raped'. It might make sense from the robot-turned-sentient being's perspective, but we, the humans, are supposed to see this as an overreaction.

See I like that idea, the concept is one of the things that had me buy-in to the show to begin with (and if you don't like that concept I don't see how you lasted 3 seasons tbh because that's like saying "I hate shows about political drama and dragons" 6 series into Game of Thrones).

Is it morally fine for humans to get enjoyment out of murder in a video game/simulation? And what does it say about us that we find some pleasure in that? Are we all rapists and murderers at heart and only law/society is holding us back from that or is it fair game to want to experience these feelings in a 'harmless' setting? The Last of Us, in particular, asked these questions of us directly (

Did you murder all of the doctors when they had their hands up in the final sequence? Did you even notice or had you just got a taste for murder, or were so focused on the objective, that it ceased to matter whether people were innocent or not?

) There's a great TV show in that concept where those questions are fleshed out.

They lost sight of that, though. And even then a lot wouldn't mind that if the characters were fleshed out and they got bogged down in an enthralling story that they'd created from those characters' choices...which they did, minus the fleshed out and enthralling parts. The story became about the mechanisms of characters we didn't care about, and were okay not caring about when we could see ourselves as avatars of them. And even with the concessions that I'm giving them here, they still dropped the ball.

ixoy

For another sci-fi show where people (not AI I guess) are trying to upset the status quo of a controlled world, there's "Continuum".
So that's "Travellers", "Continuum", "Person of Interest", and "Devs" all exploring some of these same themes but better and with more interesting characters.

silverharp

Keyzer wrote: »

He summed it up perfectly for me. I'm petty and vindictive also. Writers clearly have notions about themselves, writing convoluted shíte which is supposed to show how intelligent they are. Also, the depiction of every single man in this series as utterly useless is disgraceful. They castrated every decent male character.

Why is it even called Westworld anymore? A series about robots in a Westworld which is not set in Westworld anymore, stupid.

I'll say it again, S1 was brilliant but the rest was utter crap.

Fúckoff Westworld.

Go away now!

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

But if we're all complaining about Westworld now that still makes it an echo chamber - doesn't it?

yes it's no longer the beloved echo chamber tho :pac:

1800_Ladladlad

nc6000 wrote: »

The Critical Drinker tries to make sense of how and why season 3 went so horribly wrong........:)

Spot on. I had a good laugh at the comments on this video.

Westworld: Charlies Angel's Edition

Priceless. Must of been the most recent charlies angels

cdgalwegian

It seems season 1 flattered to deceive; a fantastic first season started with a great postmodern moral conundrum set-up, but season 2 dropped the baton with narrative contrivances. Season 3 started promisingly, but pretty soon Delores and Maeve may as well have had name-tags with 'Mary' and 'Sue' on them (though that might have spoiled the Altered Carbon-style who's who 'sleeve' guessing game). Any empathies had been purged.
Where Season 2's throwing in of different narrative timelines as a lazy/clever (take your pick) way of adding complexity, Season 3 was equally guilty of unnecessary addition of complexity. This time it was by keeping a linear timeline, but by having an evil overlord like the Matrix in charge- with prediction and manipulation powers (borrowed from Nolan's Person of Interest) instead of a grand simulation. There was also an obvious attempt at misdirection/added layer of puzzlement in one piece of dialogue- followed by simulation scene fillers. The Rehoboam plot could and should have been left to be properly explored in the next series. Without it, season 3 could have had Mary and Sue (and all the characters) getting better characterisations, being set up for us to root for them, while relishing a showdown; which at the end of 3 turned into a damp squib.
As everyone can see, this season is all about plot, with no characters to root for; it seems that's why only 8 episodes were all that could be done to carry it over the line for a booby prize, and even then, post-credit scenes were needed to tempt us in for more.
Overall, the problem is Joy and Nolan are not as clever as they think they are (or as clever as HBO thought they were). HBO need to draft someone in to rescue this, though it looks like the massive waste of potential is too far gone. So, so disappointed.

Acosta

With it's expensive budget it's all just style over substance and was just boring really. Think I'm done with it

kerplun k

Just binged season 3.
I Don’t get the hate for this show. It’s not perfect, but better than most things on TV.

Although, I wasn’t exactly sure who I was supposed to be rooting for. The asshat french guy who wanted to save humanity or the likeable Jesse Pinkman who wanted to unleash chaos on the world.

I mean, I didn’t have any real issues with frenchies plan. All he did was guide people in the right direction and remove a few bad eggs, and even those guys got to live on in cryostasis, hell, they were even given a chance at rehabilitation, and only sent to sleep if that failed. Frenchies only crime was that he was a prick.

Just stumbled on this thread, very supposed at the season 3 hate I have to say I very much enjoyed it and was really looking forward to the next weeks episode all through. Thought it ended well too!

Really looking forward to next season.

TheValeyard

Just watched 'The Social Dilemma' documentary on Netflix. It really is like a precursor to season 3!!

Agent Coulson

Jeffery Wright in an interview has said season 4 wrapped filming in December.

Can't be that far from being released then.

pixelburp

Man, I could care less. Season 3 was such a perfect case of empty "Prestige TV" that had absolutely nothing to say for itself; substituting actual complexity for wishy-washy platitudes.

Season 3 will remain a TV show that somehow contrived to make a cinema-themed drug trip boring.

youcancallmeal

They should hopefully wrap it all up in Season 4 to try and preserve the legacy of Season 1, one of the best seasons of TV ever in my opinion.

Homelander

A lot of people said good things about Season 3 but I entirely agree it was more or less nonsense masquerading as high-concept and intelligent TV.

I wouldn't say I didn't enjoy it overall, and the production values were slick, but it was a severe dip in narrative quality which I didn't expect from HBO and the finale left me seriously cold.

Still, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't watch S4.

Fool me twice

Mr.Nice Guy

Loved season 1. Liked season 2 more than most. Thought season 3 was some of the worst drivel I've ever had to endure and I believe I quit before the end. Won't be giving this a look.

Penn

I'll still give it a watch, and might rewatch the full show before Season 4 (especially as I remember f*ck all of what actually happened in Season 3), but they'll really need to pull something amazing out of the bag to reclaim the legacy of the show.

God the first season was just so damn good. It's a real shame that in a way it ended up becoming a victim of its own hype as the writers keep trying to play up the mysteries and twists rather than focus on the character work of the first season.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118708646#Comment_118708646

Season 1 was good, but those subsequent seasons revealed that a lot of the abstraction from that first run really was just empty, vaguely philosophical platitudes; not so much a Mystery Box as hinting at a Mystery Box. At first, I gave it the benefit of the doubt it was all coyness pending later reveals - then it turned out it was all coyness for its own sake. Season 1 was definitely the high point of its characters, but suffered from that problem with serialised TV where characters - whose arcs had broadly wrapped up - had to return for more adventures and drama.

fryup

Just started watching this now its basically - Blade Runner meets The Matrix meets Wild Wild West isn't it?😶

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918851#Comment_118918851

eeehhhhh....

hmmmmmm...

I mean like.. in a way

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918851#Comment_118918851

Stop watching at season 1. Season 2 is marginal, but season 3 is trash in fancy clothes.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

thanks for that,

just wasted 10hrs bingeing season 1, load of pretentious ol'w@nk....couldn't make head nor tail of it in the end, seems like a show that was rewritten umpteen times over😑 that even the creators gave up on

corkie

As this thread is active again, we must be expecting the next season soon?

Here is some recap's for anyone interested.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a19753403/westworld-season-1-recap/

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31440462/westworld-season-2-recap/

https://www.esquire.com/westworld-episode-recaps/

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/03/12/westworld-season-4-is-not-coming-in-march-2022/

EoinMcLovin

https://youtu.be/ORLHTNhEqIM

Westworld Season 4 premieres June 26th

Penn

Damnit... they're going to make me have to rewatch Season 3 again...

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039740#Comment_119039740

Yeah, I can't remember where Season 3 left off, but that's more because this damned show doesn't have any kind of coherent, distinct narrative to actually follow.

Trailer looks great, this show never lacked production value or strength of cast, that's for sure. But I think 3 seasons is enough rope to give this show and time to invoke the "too many good shows" excuse to pull the rip-chord IMO!

youcancallmeal

Hope they do something drastic with season 4 like a jump in to the far future when robots rule the world. Don't think I could take more of the same from season 3