Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

Penn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They really need to release a version of season 2 told linearly. It is like they added in the jumps in time to hide the fact that it isnt as good as season 1.

Partly, yes. But I think if you did it linearly, you'd have ended up with a really weak last few episodes, with most of the main cast not even in those episodes. It's kinda like Memento.

A friend of mine once complained it was an awful film because if you watched it all linearly, the ending would be really boring. Well, yeah, that's why it's not done linearly. Same with Westworld, the middle of the story is the exciting part, and the messing with timelines is to work in the aftermath of it before we see what the ending actually is. It's a good mechanic when it's done right.

But they went way overboard with it and just made it all a jumbled mess, and the twists weren't good enough to warrant it. They focused too much on trying to conceal what they were doing with the story, rather than doing something worth concealing.

cdgalwegian

Penn wrote: »

But they went way overboard with it and just made it all a jumbled mess.

The second season certainly lost the run of itself, for the reasons you outlined. It let fly on the postmodern (and Buddhist) take on the notion of self- and the role of memory in that- as well as pushing the boundaries of how far capitalism can be pushed in conjunction with technology. A lot of season 2 of course is just pseudo-philosophical blancmange, but I think if it's reined in, and dealt with in earnest, season 3 could be great.
'Dark' is the gold-standard for well-structured time-related complexity, but Westworld- through playing with memory/unreliable narrator- has more complexity through added layers. Westworld could turn out to be one of the best science-fiction series out there- if it tidies itself up in the next series i.e. makes it 'big picture' comprehensible. If we can't maintain a grip on what is happening (rather than just waiting for a big reveal) we'll just lose interest waiting.
In preparation for the possibility of a great third series, I'm re-watching the first 2 series again. Even after the first 4 episodes, there's so much I had forgotten had happened.

RobbingBandit

I think the story of the damsel in destress in Shogun World turning evil is a definite spot to remember.

Can't wait 6 and a bit sleeps

steve_r

Penn wrote: »

Partly, yes. But I think if you did it linearly, you'd have ended up with a really weak last few episodes, with most of the main cast not even in those episodes. It's kinda like Memento.

A friend of mine once complained it was an awful film because if you watched it all linearly, the ending would be really boring. Well, yeah, that's why it's not done linearly. Same with Westworld, the middle of the story is the exciting part, and the messing with timelines is to work in the aftermath of it before we see what the ending actually is. It's a good mechanic when it's done right.

But they went way overboard with it and just made it all a jumbled mess, and the twists weren't good enough to warrant it. They focused too much on trying to conceal what they were doing with the story, rather than doing something worth concealing.

There's a fan edit knocking around, been meaning to check it out. Agree with the point that the ending would not sense as is (depends how they handle season 3). At the moment, the latest timeline we know of would not give you a definite conclusion for a lot of the characters.

On a rewatch, I find I am enjoying the characters (particular Maeve, and cameos like Giancarlo Esposito) more, and not paying as much attention to the overall plot.

Penn

Finished season 2. I still enjoyed it for the most part, but it is very flawed. Rather than the likes of Season 1 where you get bits and pieces throughout, then see everything come together in the last episode, here you get purposeful confusion for 9 episodes, and the finale is packed with a lot of exposition and big reveals that lose a lot of impact because of how they were presented. They really screwed with it too much.

Still though, roll on Season 3!

Slydice

Airing tomorrow.

Recap posted to the HBO youtube:

can't believe they are still making this shyte tbh

metacritic scores a good bit down on season 3 compared to the dire 2.

boring convoluted pretentious rubbish.

RobbingBandit

The wire is that you, you had your time now scram or else

RobbingBandit

RobbingBandit wrote: »

The wire is that you, you had your time now scram or else

no idea who the wire is.

don't worry - I have no intention of plaguing the beloved echo chamber for longer than this very post.

Its not really an echo chamber if everyone generally agrees season two wasn't as good as season one.

pixelburp

There's a "beloved echo chamber"? Where??

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

There's a "beloved echo chamber"? Where??

Hidden... in The Valley Beyond... If you find the Maze it will lead you to The Door, hidden below The Forge...

Penn

Penn wrote: »

Hidden... in The Valley Beyond... If you find the Maze it will lead you to The Door, hidden below The Forge...

When you put it like that, it does start to sound very Lost-like.

And we all know how that ended (kind of)

pixelburp

New opening titles released anyway; Peak TV has produced some pretty gorgeous title sequences

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PU74AObMfE

Skerries

kept expecting Cal to shout Science Bitch!

Visually, it's beautiful, but surprise surprise, the story makes little sense.

I'll stay with it, and I wasn't expecting a straightforward storyline, but... I'm disappointed.

Agent Coulson

Jesse Aaron Paul really has the sitting down deep sigh lean back into the chair move down to a tee in every show he is on.

satguy

S3E01 was ok, and most likely cost 2 Million or more, the budget was all there, on the screen.

I just hope they dont (as usual) make too hard to follow, and jump around in the timeline too much.

ricero

Great to have this back

robwen

There's an after credits scene I nearly missed

CastorTroy

robwen wrote: »

There's an after credits scene I nearly missed

Was that some kind of

War World?

Is it me or is Aaron Paul beginning to resemble David Arquette?
Don't think I've seen him in anything since Breaking Bad

youcancallmeal

satguy wrote: »

S3E01 was ok, and most likely cost 2 Million or more, the budget was all there, on the screen.

I just hope they dont (as usual) make too hard to follow, and jump around in the timeline too much.

I really hope so too. It'll be a real eye roller if it turns out there was several time lines in that episode, maybe they've learnt their lesson after season 2

alchemist33

Lots of deliberate obfuscation by the writers there, but it held my attention throughout. Looking forward to more

DenMan

Really enjoyed it tonight. Roll on next week.

ixoy

Nice to see the outside world - bit of a soft reset on some elements.
It seems like it'll be a little clearer this season I reckon - what's the story with Bernard and the "other" Bernard he's got in lock down? I can't recall that from the second season but it's been a while.

Full_Circle_81

ixoy wrote: »

Nice to see the outside world - bit of a soft reset on some elements.
It seems like it'll be a little clearer this season I reckon - what's the story with Bernard and the "other" Bernard he's got in lock down? I can't recall that from the second season but it's been a while.

I don't remember that either, but I'm sure they will fill in loads of the blanks in a few episodes or so.

It was certainly less confusing than I was expecting, but

who is in Tessa Thompsons body now

, were we told that at the end of season 2?

And I know I've seen it before, but when Evan Rachel Wood did the dress transformation, I practically gasped

Turtwig

CastorTroy wrote: »

Was that some kind of

War World?

Is it me or is Aaron Paul beginning to resemble David Arquette?
Don't think I've seen him in anything since Breaking Bad

I really like his role in Eye in the Sky. Conveyed a drone pilot really really well.

ixoy

CastorTroy wrote: »

Is it me or is Aaron Paul beginning to resemble David Arquette?
Don't think I've seen him in anything since Breaking Bad

Funny that I was just putting him into a category of actors who, when I combine their seasons on shows that I've watched, come among the highest and Aaron Paul's in that - 5 seasons of Breaking Bad, 3 seasons of the Path, 6 seasons of BoJack Horeseman and now 1 season of Westworld - 15 seasons of all making him one of my most popular actors!

Only a handful can nearly match that for me - Eddie Falco (3 seasons of Oz, 4 of the Sopranos that I watched and 7 of Nurse Jackie) and beating it by a bit is Jensen Ackles for 15 seasons of 'Supernatural' and 1 season of 'Smallville'. By episode count though he crushes the rest of them into the dust.

Not sure why I'm drawn to this. It annoys me to watch yet I want to know what happens.

Slydice

3.1: Enjoyed that episode.

Dolores had some real terminator vibes going on in that gunfight.. except she ain't made of metal.. steel, iron, polymemetic or otherwise

Aaron Paul had a similar feel to him as Arnie in Total Recall I thought. Even his apartment felt Total Recall familiar.. something about it.

It does look like the big brain AI ball is the target but there's the lingering feeling that the big brain AI ball thing.. might be pulling off it's I Robot moment and just using Delores and all.. who knows.

Maeve.. NEED more Maeve! Looks like World War 2 world or maybe Occupied Europe/France World.

Haven't a clue what Bernard is doing.. but I doubt it'll be nothing!