2014 NFL Draft

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

Kurt Warner (admittedly he didn't make the roster but with Detmer and Farve ahead of him that was unlikely to ever happen) and Matt Hasselbeck both started their careers in Green Bay under Holmgren;

Giving credit to Holmgren for Warner is pointless at best. And admittedly I forgot Holmgren was still there and drafted Hasselbeck

Brett Farve was picked up from the Atlanta bench to become a HOFer in Green Bay; Mark Brunell had a career that nearly equals Farve's in terms of longevity; Detmer lasted in the league for 12 years, an achievement in itself.

How many games collectively have those QBs played in? It probably passes 500 or 600 games.

No idea why you are telling me this but Brunell is no different to any other average QB sitting on a bench elsewhere as was Detmer, longevity means nothing really when it comes to those 2 and others like them especially when bench warming is your sole purpose.

Also Favre was a starter for 19 of his 20 seasons in the Pros. Brunell was only a starter for 13 of his 19 seasons and even as a starter missed games left right and centre. Hardly comparable to Favre really.

As for Detmer lasting 12 years. He was actually in the NFL 14 season but he sat on a bench for most of his career. Hardly lasting 14 years nevermind 12. Easy for any player to last 14 years if they are a bench warmer for most of it. 54 starts in 14 seasons is hardly good solid production to be fair.

Green Bay's ability to identify talent at the quarter-back position in the Holmgren years was second to none.

Second to none? Plenty of coaches before him and after him who have produced more than a handful of starting NFL QBs. Not to take away from Holmgren as he was a solid NFL coach but you make it out as if he was a master of getting QBs compared to others when realistically he was no different to other coaches around him. He also had the help of Andy Reid.

Andy Reid can take a lot of credit for the work done with QBs in Green bay during Holmgren's time. In fact it is well known Andy Reid had a lot of say when it came to the Packers QBs and was held in high regard by Holmgren also.

Syferus

I think you missed the part about the Holmgren years, no one was saying Holmgren was solely responsible for Green Bay's record of finding talented QBs.

Brunell has a career TD:Int of 184-104 and over 32,000 passing yards - hardly the stats an average QB sitting on the bench anywhere puts up in their Not For Long careers. Very few players are in the league for 19 seasons, period.

You can argue about his instrumental or not Green Bay were developing those QBs but their ability to find so many NFL caliber QBs is something a lot of team would have killed for.

TO.

Syferus wrote: »

I think you missed the part about the Holmgren years, no one was saying Holmgren was solely responsible for Green Bay's record of finding talented QBs.

What are you talking about. I never said he was solely responsible either or even suggested you said that. The fact of the matter is the Holmgren didn't really find a lot of talented QBs. Brett Favre a HOF QB granted we will give him that. Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck.

Brunell has a career TD:Int of 184-104 and over 32,000 passing yards - hardly the stats an average QB sitting on the bench anywhere puts up in their Not For Long careers. Very few players are in the league for 19 seasons, period.

184-108. And you can hardly count his last 5 seasons as anything other than a guy at the end of his career trying to find a starting spot or even a decent backup spot. He also took very few snaps his first two seasons as expected of a rookie. So 12 decent seasons. You can bang on about 19 seasons all you want but it hardly adds to his stock.

And to make my argument for average lets take his 12 most productive seasons and average out his passing yards over his 12 season. Just over 2,600 yards passing per season over the 12 years. In fact if you want me to include all 19 seasons the numbers get worse. So yes nothing more than an average QB. Also QB/Int ratios don't always show the full picture either so pointless even using that as your main point.

You can argue about his instrumental or not Green Bay were developing those QBs but their ability to find so many NFL caliber QBs is something a lot of team would have killed for.

You seemed to miss the point all together but no surprises there.

HigginsJ

Syferus wrote: »

The real reason it's unlikely the Jaguars will draft Manziel is because they're a comatose franchise that's allergic to making interesting choices.

To be fair to Khan he is doing a lot off the field to promote the franchise (international series, new logo's, huge investment in facilities)

I would nearly argue that interesting choices (Gabbert, Blackmon) (Anger, not his fault but a punter in the 3rd really) have been an issue for the franchise.

I think Henne is a serviceable enough QB to give them the option to look around in the draft. I also presume MJD won't be back so they might have some money in free agency.

Squidgy Black

Apparently Mariota is reconsidering declaring for the draft after getting his draft grading.

Isn't it mad to think that Matt Barkley was graded as a first round pick and was considered to be a higher rated draft pick ahead of Ryan Tannehill until he went back for his senior year, and look how that turned out.

davyjose

Barkley's was the worst decision in the history of the draft. He would have gone straight in as the Browns starter IMO.

Paully D

Bridgewater's off to Texas then. Houston get the #1 pick.

Squidgy Black

Paully D wrote: »

Bridgewater's off to Texas then. Houston get the #1 pick.

Unless they decide to trade it, and go with a different QB later in the draft or see who's on the FA market.

nerd69

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Unless they decide to trade it, and go with a different QB later in the draft or see who's on the FA market.

it would be very risky by them put a good qb in there and they are a serious team if they trade down and miss on a qb they will never live it down

Alfred Borden

Bridgewater vs Luck is going to be some rivalry for 10+ years, playing at least twice a year.

SimmerDean

Texans, Rams, Jags, Browns first 4 picks. 3 of those likely to pick QB's?

davyjose

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Unless they decide to trade it, and go with a different QB later in the draft or see who's on the FA market.

Would be mad not to. Why pass on the best player in the draft? You're asking for trouble. Don't overthink it- you need a qb and there's a very good one on your plate.

Squidgy Black

There's 4 months until the draft and the Texans are going through personnel changes.

Who knows what could happen between now and then, it could turn out that Bridgewater isn't what they're looking for, but someone like the Jags want to trade up and the Texans see a different prospect they can nab with a lower pick.

Paully D

SimmerDean wrote: »

Texans, Rams, Jags, Browns first 4 picks. 3 of those likely to pick QB's?

If the order stays like that I think Matthews and Clowney will also be going top four.

nerd69

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

There's 4 months until the draft and the Texans are going through personnel changes.

Who knows what could happen between now and then, it could turn out that Bridgewater isn't what they're looking for, but someone like the Jags want to trade up and the Texans see a different prospect they can nab with a lower pick.

indeed every year im shocked how much some guys rise and others fall. hell i think eric fisher was being mocked around the 3rd round at this stage and he went no 1

with regards qbs rg3 was being mocked late first at best at this stage

SantryRed

Texans are defo going QB with the 1st overall.

davyjose

nerd69 wrote: »

with regards qbs rg3 was being mocked late first at best at this stage

I don't think that's true. I remember people discussing whether or not Indy should pick Luck or RG3 before the super bowl in Indy.
Unless some serious character issues arise or the guy has a horrible combine, Teddy is a lock for #1.
Don't get me wrong, as an AFC South rival, I hope the pick someone else.

frostie500

Yeah RG3 was a third rounder the year before (as a Junior) but his Senior year was tremendous and he showed his potential right through and from day one was seen as a legit first rounder and after a few weeks a top ten player. By the time the season ended he was seen as the only contender to Luck for the number one pick

HigginsJ

davyjose wrote: »

Would be mad not to. Why pass on the best player in the draft? You're asking for trouble. Don't overthink it- you need a qb and there's a very good one on your plate.

Texans are not a 2-14 team. They have a lot of pro-bowl level talent & it's easy to see them turning it around (ala Colts & Chiefs) with a good QB (Bridgewater will be that & more) & some fresh thinking/motivation from new HC

nerd69

davyjose wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I remember people discussing whether or not Indy should pick Luck or RG3 before the super bowl in Indy.
Unless some serious character issues arise or the guy has a horrible combine, Teddy is a lock for #1.
Don't get me wrong, as an AFC South rival, I hope the pick someone else.

frostie500 wrote: »

Yeah RG3 was a third rounder the year before (as a Junior) but his Senior year was tremendous and he showed his potential right through and from day one was seen as a legit first rounder and after a few weeks a top ten player. By the time the season ended he was seen as the only contender to Luck for the number one pick

yup just looked back yere right dont know where i got that from

Red Crow

nerd69 wrote: »

indeed every year im shocked how much some guys rise and others fall. hell i think eric fisher was being mocked around the 3rd round at this stage and he went no 1

with regards qbs rg3 was being mocked late first at best at this stage

I'm always interested in mocks. It's interesting to see how some choice turn around.



Also RGIII was definitely a top 10 in most mocks by late December.

Paully D

Matt Miller has his full, 7-round mock out. I think he's quite good and always enjoy his work.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1906095-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-complete-7-round-projections

Some interesting selections there, namely Sammy Watkins to the Rams at #2, Manziel to the Browns at #4, Clowney to the Buccaneers at #7 and Bortles, Hundley also going top five.

Syferus

I'd agree somewhat, Manziel is the sort of player you can see someone taking a punt on quite high. The problem for Manziel is going to a team with a decent line so he has some protection and time to develop his skills in the pocket rather than having to roll out the whole time.

Don't know what teams drafting high would fit that bill but wouldn't it be ironic if Houston traded down and ended up keeping Manziel in southeast Texas?

HigginsJ

I have seen a few people put Hundley back in their mock drafts this week. Initial reports had him going back to school so has there been some developments I'm not aware of?

LuckyLloyd

Syferus wrote: »

The real reason it's unlikely the Jaguars will draft Manziel is because they're a comatose franchise that's allergic to making interesting choices.

I thought Tebow's career would give college ball fan's pause at Manziel's NFL prospects but apparently I'm mistaken. Johnny Football is a dog to be a long term NFL starter. He's a project and the best thing for him would be to land somewhere with an established QB so he can spend a couple of year's refining his game.

HigginsJ

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I thought Tebow's career would give college ball fan's pause at Manziel's NFL prospects but apparently I'm mistaken. Johnny Football is a dog to be a long term NFL starter. He's a project and the best thing for him would be to land somewhere with an established QB so he can spend a couple of year's refining his game.

To be fair Johnny Football's throwing motion is much crisper & tidier than Tebow's was.

smackbunnybaby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I thought Tebow's career would give college ball fan's pause at Manziel's NFL prospects but apparently I'm mistaken. Johnny Football is a dog to be a long term NFL starter. He's a project and the best thing for him would be to land somewhere with an established QB so he can spend a couple of year's refining his game.

HigginsJ wrote: »

To be fair Johnny Football's throwing motion is much crisper & tidier than Tebow's was.

Hey guys, having not really analyzed JM's offerings etc, I'd be interested to know his weaknesses (and strengths) as a QB, which will cause him problems if unaddressed in the NFL.

Cheers!

Chucky the tree

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

Hey guys, having not really analyzed JM's offerings etc, I'd be interested to know his weaknesses (and strengths) as a QB, which will cause him problems if unaddressed in the NFL.

Cheers!

He needs to address all of his problems to become good in the NFL. The major issues are: poor pocket awareness/not great footwork, terrible decision maker, has not shown he can really go through progressions, off-field I'd have very little confidence in him doing the work that is required. He's also very small for a QB which for his running style is a disaster.


His best hope is the same as Tebow, be picked up by a team with an established QB so he can sit and learn for a 2-3 years. Worst option is going to a team who need him to start now.

Bateman

From what I have seen I agree with most of that re: JFF. Will be interesting to see if, even considering all of those things that need improvement, an organisation still takes him high and throws him straight into an NFL starting place next season.

BKWDR

Silly question, and to be fair i haven't really followed college ball at all but i don't really have a grasp of what the Draft is about other than is it just the same as say the fantasy football draft, only with college ball players who have put themselves forward for the draft who have had a minimum of 2 years of playing college football?

If not drafted they go as a free agent and can be signed by any team then?

Draft picks go from worst in season get 1st pick and so on down the line? How many rounds are there of picks?

And then you can do deals during the main season and trade your pick in the first round for a player or what not?