Peru drug smuggling case - READ OP BEFORE POSTING

HensVassal

Berserker wrote: »

And Celeb Big Brother.



Never realised Dungannon upped sticks and moved to Monaghan.

How is she going to appear in Big Brother if she is stuck in Peru for the next 4 years?

...And Justice

HensVassal wrote: »

How is she going to appear in Big Brother if she is stuck in Peru for the next 4 years?

She asked to be on it, I heard Ivan Yeats talking about it on newstalk this morning, apparently the producer has turned her down, she's trying to be famous, there was talk of her having an agent and trying to secure book deals and other stuff.

Paulownia

There is a danger with publicity of this sort that some misguided people might see these people as heroes or innocent victims and see their behaviour as acceptable and emulate them.

LorMal

...And Justice wrote: »

She asked to be on it, I heard Ivan Yeats talking about it on newstalk this morning, apparently the producer has turned her down, she's trying to be famous, there was talk of her having an agent and trying to secure book deals and other stuff.

Enjoy a good gossip? How about leaving her alone. You don't know her.

...And Justice

LorMal wrote: »

Enjoy a good gossip? How about leaving her alone. You don't know her.

Just listening to the radio........

HensVassal

...And Justice wrote: »

She asked to be on it, I heard Ivan Yeats talking about it on newstalk this morning, apparently the producer has turned her down, she's trying to be famous, there was talk of her having an agent and trying to secure book deals and other stuff.

Well to be honest, if there are people out there whose lives are so empty that they will spend money read whatever vacuous sh1t this girl puts in a book then what can I say?

armaghlad

Berserker wrote: »

And Celeb Big Brother.



Never realised Dungannon upped sticks and moved to Monaghan.

No, what happened is her family moved from Co Monaghan to live in Dungannon. Surely not a difficult concept to understand.

Muahahaha

melissak wrote: »

Do you lose your good character by being found guilty of a crime legally regarding defamation?

There's a few defences to defamation actions such as the truth and expressing an honest opinion-

Honest Opinion: For a person to successfully utilise this defence, they must display that they believed in the truth of the opinion, that the opinion was founded on allegations of fact and the opinion concerned a matter of public interest.

So any of us can shout from the rooftops that she's a convicted drug smuggler due to the fact of her being found guilty. What the media can't do though is make up complete lies on other things (eg she's a member of the IRA) and then use a defence of honest opinion without demonstrating how they arrived at that honest opinion.

Even then though people who have been through the mill tend to get short shrift in defamation cases if they already had a shady character. Nowhere is this better illustrated in the case of Albert Reynolds Vs the Sunday Times. The paper led with the headline (in reference to Reynolds) "Goodbye Gombeen Man-Why a fib too far was fatal for Mr Fix-It.'' The article went on to call him a liar and he sued. In the end he won but the jury awarded him the grand total of one penny in damages and he was left with a £1m legal bill. The judge in the trial remarked that pretty much all the Irish media had called him a liar and he hadn't sued them, only the UK based Sunday Times. Whatever was left of Alberts character and reputation by that stage was worth only a penny in damages, according to the judge and jury. If ever someone was getting told to fcuk off with their defamation case that was it, he sued the paper to defend his character and it ended up even worse for him than he could ever had imagined, he was roundly humiliated and made a laughing stock by the courts.

VinLieger

LorMal wrote: »

Enjoy a good gossip? How about leaving her alone. You don't know her.

If she wants to be left alone she should stop scrabbling for the limelight, everything happening she brought on herself and she deserves no sympathy from anybody when it hopefully goes tits up again

Rhea Rose

GiftofGab wrote: »

I think the reason why a lot of people are pissed off is the fact that she didn’t take responsibility for her actions. I don’t care that she tried to smuggle a few million worth of cocaine into Spain. If she didn’t smuggle it in, someone else would have. But she has to put her hand up and say “I took a chance, I knew what I was doing, I was stupid, I got caught and it will never happen again”. Instead, she played the sympathy card. She sat down for an interview and said she was a young naive little girl, who was targeting by drug dealers. She said she was up partying all night and jumped on a plan that she taught was going to Mallorca but somehow ended up in Peru. Then before she knew it she was caught with a few million worth of drugs. That’s not taking into account all the other victim cards that she pulled – like she was held at gunpoint by drug dealers and her family were in danger. She wanted the public to have sympathy for her. The bottom line is that she knew exactly what she was doing and simply got caught. She needs to own up to the fact that was she done was wrong and that she’s the criminal not the victim.

Were you there? I mean, who are you to say how she was or wasn't feeling at the time? The girl panicked and lied - bad call - but she's seriously paid the price for it. Two years in prison is no ride in the park, in fairness.

It's very possible that she wasn't thinking about the public or looking for sympathy at all. What's more likely, is that she was simply trying to figure out how the fcuk to get out of going to prison. I can't condone that, but I can sure as hell understand it. She messed up, panicked, and made a bad decision in the heat of the moment. We've all done that to varying degrees, although obviously not to this extent.

A bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss. I can't understand this fierce judgemental attitude that so many people are displaying towards a girl they don't even know. I just really hate the witch hunt mentality I've seen surrounding the girl and it's completely uncalled for.

BettePorter

Rhea Rose wrote:

What's more likely, is that she was simply trying to figure out how the fcuk to get out of going to prison. I can't condone that, but I can sure as hell understand it.

Yes that's all very well BUT ...... she's STILL doing it! Had she come out and said 'yep its a fair cop, I chanced my arm and failed. Don't do it kids'! I think she'd get a lot more credit!

The whole ' poor me ' stance is infuriating!

Rhea Rose

BettePorter wrote: »

Yes that's all very well BUT ...... she's STILL doing it! Had she come out and said 'yep its a fair cop, I chanced my arm and failed. Don't do it kids'! I think she'd get a lot more credit!

The whole ' poor me ' stance is infuriating!

Didn't she say why she did that? i.e. she didn't know what to do? I think that's a fair explanation.

KingBrian2

Paulownia wrote: »

She would be well advised to not be so publicity seeking then

Maybe the publicity is good. Would it be appropriate to say she is quite hot.

BettePorter

Rhea Rose wrote:

Didn't she say why she did that? i.e. she didn't know what to do? I think that's a fair explanation.

Did what?

bajer101

I have no problem with what she did except she is an idiot. Morally - what did she do wrong? For me, she is just the same as the person who drives a Guinness lorry.

Paulownia

armaghlad wrote: »

No, what happened is her family moved from Co Monaghan to live in Dungannon. Surely not a difficult concept to understand.

If I lived in Monaghan I'd probably move too but perhaps not to Dungannon oddly!!

Paulownia

bajer101 wrote: »

I have no problem with what she did except she is an idiot. Morally - what did she do wrong? For me, she is just the same as the person who drives a Guinness lorry.

Were they carrying narcotics too?

bajer101

Paulownia wrote: »

Were they carrying narcotics too?

They are transporting a drug which causes a lot more damage than all of the illegal drugs combined. Alcohol just happens to be legal. During prohibition in America, a bootlegger would have been in the same legal position as a drug smuggler. Legalities may change, but morality doesn't.

armaghlad

bajer101 wrote: »

I have no problem with what she did except she is an idiot. Morally - what did she do wrong? For me, she is just the same as the person who drives a Guinness lorry.

This is very much my standpoint. Looking at it objectively: she was smuggling cocaine. €1m+ worth. That dramatises it - but how much is it worth in Peru? A he'll of a lot less. The pitch fork brigade obviously think she's the biggest scumbag going - all the lives she would have "ruined" and all those "poor children" that would have been affected. When in reality, the people taking coke will be your neighbours, your plumber, your financial advisor, those lads watching the football in your local, the twenty - somethings queuing up for the local nightclub etc...

She broke the law, a serious law, has been caught and rightfully apprehended. She's a moron for doing it but I'm sure she's learned her lesson by now

Bacchus

bajer101 wrote: »

They are transporting a drug which causes a lot more damage than all of the illegal drugs combined. Alcohol just happens to be legal. During prohibition in America, a bootlegger would have been in the same legal position as a drug smuggler. Legalities may change, but morality doesn't.

Morality does come into it though when this smuggling of drugs funds crime.

You can argue the dangers of alcohol vs cocaine (legalities put aside) all you want but there's the bigger issue of smuggling drugs directly funding the objectives of criminal activities.

I agree with other points that she has paid for her crime, she's not a monster, etc. but I don't agree at all that her actions were, from a moral viewpoint, just fine.

homerun_homer

What bugs me about her is that she will make money out of this yet she is still lying and trying to make herself look better. I wouldn't knock someone a second chance but she needs to be completely honest and she wasn't in that RTE interview. From the sectarianism threats and the overnight decision to go to Ibiza etc. Bloody hell girl just say you were young, dumb and full of... The fact that she was making this up shows she is still a stupid twit.

By the time she confessed to the cops in Peru she was still 5 months afterwards giving the invented sob story to the press of her family being under threat if she didn't smuggle the cocaine. Ibiza overnight decision? Her mother knew for months and said so in a 2014 documentary.

She's free now and the press need to stop giving her all the attention as it will only further help her get rich from coverage, interviews, book deal and reality TV. If she disappeared off back to being a nobody then I, like many would have no issue with her.

HensVassal

bajer101 wrote: »

I have no problem with what she did except she is an idiot. Morally - what did she do wrong? For me, she is just the same as the person who drives a Guinness lorry.

I would agree. And in fact in the moral stakes I would hold her in higher regard than casino operators or those scum of the earth who prey on the vulnerable by running payday loanshark operations.

Cocaine is a party drug mostly taken by rich people or at least people who have jobs. People who frequent dance clubs, etc. I doubt anyone turned to burglary and/or petty theft to acquire money for their next "fix" of cocaine.

Ri_Nollaig

bajer101 wrote: »

I have no problem with what she did except she is an idiot. Morally - what did she do wrong? For me, she is just the same as the person who drives a Guinness lorry.

The legality of drugs and comparing them to alcohol etc is one argument. Someone taking advantage of the current laws for personal gain is another.

the running joke

I don't know much about what she did, but she sure looked damn fine during that interview.

Ri_Nollaig

HensVassal wrote: »

I would agree. And in fact in the moral stakes I would hold her in higher regard than casino operators or those scum of the earth who prey on the vulnerable by running payday loanshark operations.

Cocaine is a party drug mostly taken by rich people or at least people who have jobs. People who frequent dance clubs, etc. I doubt anyone turned to burglary and/or petty theft to acquire money for their next "fix" of cocaine.

Do you really think she considered the morals of the drug and its possible end users before she agreed to smuggle 11kgs of it?

armaghlad

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Do you really think she considered the morals of the drug and its possible end users before she agreed to smuggle 11kgs of it?

I'd say she probably did. She was, in all probability, one of them. Partying for months in ibiza I'm sure she'd a fair idea of the type of people who'd be using it. As for morals, well when you're young and stupid you don't consider morals maybe as quickly as you should.

Bacchus

armaghlad wrote: »

I'd say she probably did. She was, in all probability, one of them. Partying for months in ibiza I'm sure she'd a fair idea of the type of people who'd be using it. As for morals, well when you're young and stupid you don't consider morals maybe as quickly as you should.

Your post is a bit contradictory. You say she probably did [consider the morals of her actions] but then you say when you're young and stupid you don't consider morals as quickly as you should. Are you saying that she's an exception to the rule, that she probably considered the morals but most others wouldn't? What would make you think she's different to any other "young and stupid" person?

Also, if you are saying that she probably did consider the morals of her choice... does that not reflect even more badly on her... that she thought about it and still went ahead with it? (as opposed to what she is claiming, which is she got caught up in a situation and was taken advantage of due to her vulnerability/lack of friends/isolation/etc.)

armaghlad

Bacchus wrote: »

Your post is a bit contradictory. You say she probably did [consider the morals of her actions] but then you say when you're young and stupid you don't consider morals as quickly as you should. Are you saying that she's an exception to the rule, that she probably considered the morals but most others wouldn't? What would make you think she's different to any other "young and stupid" person?

Also, if you are saying that she probably did consider the morals of her choice... does that not reflect even more badly on her... that she thought about it and still went ahead with it? (as opposed to what she is claiming, which is she got caught up in a situation and was taken advantage of due to her vulnerability/lack of friends/isolation/etc.)

I was referring to the end users. My last sentence deals with morals. I don't think she considered them at all. Being the young, stupid person she is/was.

Bacchus

armaghlad wrote: »

I was referring to the end users. My last sentence deals with morals. I don't think she considered them at all. Being the young, stupid person she is/was.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying. If she considered the effect on end users of the drugs she was smuggling (if she gave any consideration at all) is that not implicit of her considering the morals of her actions too?

You're probably right that she didn't give much thought at all to the morals of her actions or their consequences. That doesn't absolve her in any way though. Even the "stupid and young" excuse isn't an excuse for me. If she was 15/16 when she did it, then yeah ok you could say that but she was an adult when she committed the crime (and subsequently paid for that crime) so she is completely responsible for her actions (morally and legally) and shouldn't be given excuses like "sure we all make mistakes", "she's was young and stupid" or "she's the victim here, targeted by drug gangs".

wingbacknr5

bajer101 wrote: »

They are transporting a drug which causes a lot more damage than all of the illegal drugs combined. Alcohol just happens to be legal. During prohibition in America, a bootlegger would have been in the same legal position as a drug smuggler. Legalities may change, but morality doesn't.

What about sugar and the untold damage that is doing?

Do you put newsagents in the same category as drug mules as well because they sell sweets and fizzy drinks?

How about salt, should chipper and restaurant owners be in there with the Guinness lorry driver as well?

Bottom line is cocaine is illegal, alcohol is not.

I agree alcohol is a hugely destructive influence on society, but to try and assert that Michaella McCollum is no worse than a guy driving the Guinness or Heineken lorry is just plain wrong IMO.