Phoenix Park tunnel

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

I would suggest that you have another look at that location in the flesh - the railway is in a tight cutting.

The areas you're highlighting are at the top of that cutting, and I suspect some are private lands.

I've looked at that location in the flesh more than a few times from all sides. Perspective comes from both looking at the area and seening it the flesh.

Stations in cuttings are not major issues, as long as there's space -- and there is space between the lines and on private lands. CPOs work for the latter.

I'd go the full hog and put in a dual line station, even with the costs linked to working at a canal edge and getting gradients etc right.

Pete_Cavan

It is also worth bearing in mind that if DU ever gets built, the services using the PPT line will likely be discontinued ( replaced by the two proposed DART services) so any a station ar Cross Guns Bridge would be on the future Maynooth DART line.

Carawaystick

monument wrote: »

CPOs work for the latter.

I'd go the full hog and put in a dual line station, even with the costs linked to working at a canal edge and getting gradients etc right.

It'd be a railway order needed for Hedigan's car park at least. Any nearer to Broomebridge and you'ld only have the graveyard. Any nearer Drumcondra and you'ld have 2 stations abutting.

Between Cabra road and Faussagh Ave is the obvious place for a new station on that line. With access from both roads.

Access from platform 10 in Heuston should be improved too, with access across the Liffey to Connyngham rd and to Clancy Barracks/Islandbridge

AngryLips

Not exactly on the Phoenix Park tunnel alignment but I would love to see a station under the Kilmainham/Islandbridge roundabout, especially with the increasing use of these railway lines for Greater Dublin suburban traffic. It's sufficiently far enough from Heuston to warrant its own station.

AngryLips

AngryLips wrote: »

Not exactly on the Phoenix Park tunnel alignment but I would love to see a station under the Kilmainham/Islandbridge roundabout, especially with the increasing use of these railway lines for Greater Dublin suburban traffic. It's sufficiently far enough from Heuston to warrant its own station.

might be a good place to change trains between the main ines & local services instead of platform 10. If feasible of course.

alofek

Very interesting replies.
I do understand that with a very limited diesel services that these stops would not necessarily be a runner in the short term, but still believe there's a compelling argument for making Phibsboro work somehow.
I wonder would the relevant Minister, who lives a few hundred yards from this potential stop, share that point of view :-)
On the other stops being considered, I would be talking longer term and the absorption of this line into more general local commuter services in Dublin.
Fully agree with poster who pointed out that the distance between some of these stops would be at the very least comparable, if not further apart, than those on the DART line. These areas are also by the nature of accommodation (house size/multi-occupancy) more densely populated than similar on the southside.

GerardKeating

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It is also worth bearing in mind that if DU ever gets built, the services using the PPT line will likely be discontinued ( replaced by the two proposed DART services) so any a station ar Cross Guns Bridge would be on the future Maynooth DART line.

All the more reason to build it.

trellheim

All the more reason to build it.

Rebuild it, rather, it would nearly be on the site of Glasnevin station. .... Although that was on the other line IIRC

monument

trellheim wrote: »

Rebuild it, rather, it would nearly be on the site of Glasnevin station. .... Although that was on the other line IIRC

Was Glasnevin station not on the eastern side of the bridge? Rebuilding it there would involve more permanent disruption.

AngryLips

There used to be a station at Glasnevin? Why was it closed?

monument

AngryLips wrote: »

There used to be a station at Glasnevin? Why was it closed?

It was short lived - 1901 to 1910

http://industrialheritageireland.info/TikiWiki/tiki-index.php?page=Glasnevin+Station
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20G/Glasnevin/IrishRailwayStations.html#Glasnevin_20090910_005_CC_JA.jpg

1huge1

Aard wrote: »

In terms of strategic transport planning, Cross Guns (Phibsboro) would be very important for interchanges from Finglas/Ballymun. A station on the line here would allow for bus-rail transfers. This would greatly improve access to the Dublin 2/4 officeland. This would allow Dublin 11 commuters to bypass the surface congestion and take rail instead.

That seems very close to the Drumcondra Station from what I can see.

How about a station where the track goes under the Old Cabra Road not long after coming out of the Tunnel, would facilitate a lot of DIT Grangegorman students.


Away from station talk, has any work been done so far on getting the tunnel reopened for commuter traffic, is Q1 2016 still the date?

I don't know if its related to the project but there is currently work going on on my Road beside Drumcondra Station, seems to be they are building an extra entrance (See the green in the attached link)

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/53%C2%B021'47.5%22N+6%C2%B015'34.6%22W/@53.363196,-6.259619,349m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0!6m1!1e1

monument

1huge1 wrote: »

That seems very close to the Drumcondra Station from what I can see.

On what bases is 1km "very close" for stations in some of the highest density areas of the country?


As already posted:

North of Sydney Parade Dart Station the spacing of stations is around 800m between each one... it's ~1m between Drumcondra and Phibsboro, and from Phibsboro it's nearly 2km to both Broombridge or the Cabra Road end of the quarry... Why would the northside with higher density be treated so differently?

In fact, there's more of a case for stations on the northside at locations like Hart's Corner and Ballybough Rd given intersects with an arterial routes.

1huge1

monument wrote: »

On what bases is 1km "very close" for stations in some of the highest density areas of the country?


As already posted:

North of Sydney Parade Dart Station the spacing of stations is around 800m between each one... it's ~1m between Drumcondra and Phibsboro, and from Phibsboro it's nearly 2km to both Broombridge or the Cabra Road end of the quarry... Why would the northside with higher density be treated so differently?

In fact, there's more of a case for stations on the northside at locations like Hart's Corner and Ballybough Rd given intersects with an arterial routes.

I didn't mean it to sound like I wanted the Northside treated differently to the Southside (I happen to live between Drumcondra Station and the station that was proposed).

If it is a case where they would consider opening more than one extra station, then of course I would be in favour of it.

Hopefully they would electrify the line, I would imagine running the diesel while stopping at 1km intervals wouldn't be ideal.

Aard

1km between heavy rail stations in the city would be about right. And given the strategic importance of a station in Phibsboro (connection with buses, and anchoring a mini-CBD) it makes sense.

trellheim

not sure lads... where abouts are you thinking The old cement sidings off Navan road would have space especially for an inner park and ride, plus about 15 mins walk to Grangegorman campus

lucernarian

I think adding stations to the Phoenix Park line would be very useful for maximising the use of existing infrastructure in Dublin, especially for the northside of Dublin. Phibsboro, Drumcondra and Heuston Station each have various trip generators in the vicinity and in the case of the northside stations, have some of the highest population densities within 1km of a railway line in the State.

If the HR8/HR9 schemes from the North Dublin/Fingal Transport Study, and discussed variants, could be used then it would really maximise the potential of A) a station at Phibsboro and the Dart Underground system proper. But it's a big if, with tunnelling in tricky areas required.

In any case, they should look at electrifying the line along with getting two stations in, one at Phibsboro if at all possible and one near the sidings in the vicinity of Cabra. That area is surrounded by residential housing throughout the 1km radius surrounding it. Though the area near the line as it approaches the Phoenix Park has much higher density and apartment blocks too on the NCR itself and with a (hopefully redeveloped in future) O'Devaney Gardens. Oxmantown Road is one long, long stretch of densely-packed terraced housing with side-streets with more housing and schools.

D.L.R.

There's no reason we can't have local stations at Kilmainham, Cabra, Glasnevin and Ballybough. This railway is a sleeping giant of an asset.

People talk about Metro North boosting the northside but we're not even using what's already there.

Glasnevin Jn would make a great 3-line interchange too if it was feasible.

Aard

D.L.R. wrote: »

Glasnevin Jn would make a great 3-line interchange too if it was feasible.

Do you mean at Liffey Junction between the two rail lines and with BXD? Would such an interchange be particularly useful? Assuming a station at Phibsboro, the only additional connection that a Liffey Junction station would allow would be BXD<>PPT, which wouldn't be the most in-demand routing.

trellheim

Lads ... Phibsboro has no possibility of a heavy rail station inside the canal ; the MWR alignment is just about to be taken by BXD. PPT->BXD might offer a faster route to Stephens Green from Kildare trains as no other change required to get there. Heuston needs a bus to do it or Luas and Bus, Connolly = Luas and Busd

D.L.R.

Aard wrote: »

Do you mean at Liffey Junction between the two rail lines and with BXD? Would such an interchange be particularly useful? Assuming a station at Phibsboro, the only additional connection that a Liffey Junction station would allow would be BXD<>PPT, which wouldn't be the most in-demand routing.

Liffey Jn yes. As things stands you're probably right its not essential, but if they build the airport luas that changes things.

D.L.R.

trellheim wrote: »

Lads ... Phibsboro has no possibility of a heavy rail station inside the canal

Huh? You've lost me...

1huge1

trellheim wrote: »

Lads ... Phibsboro has no possibility of a heavy rail station inside the canal ; the MWR alignment is just about to be taken by BXD. PPT->BXD might offer a faster route to Stephens Green from Kildare trains as no other change required to get there. Heuston needs a bus to do it or Luas and Bus, Connolly = Luas and Busd

I think you are getting mixed up to where we mean by a Phibsboro railway station, it would not be anywhere near the BXD line.

They are talking about around this area https://www.google.ie/maps/place/53%C2%B021'52.8%22N+6%C2%B016'18.1%22W/@53.3646667,-6.2716944,547m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0!6m1!1e1?hl=en

D.L.R.

1huge1 wrote: »

I think you are getting mixed up to where we mean by a Phibsboro railway station, it would not be anywhere near the BXD line.

They are talking about around this area https://www.google.ie/maps/place/53%C2%B021'52.8%22N+6%C2%B016'18.1%22W/@53.3646667,-6.2716944,547m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Yes, the old Glasnevin station. This area is technically Glasnevin anyway, so that's what I'm calling it.

trellheim

DLR - thank you. Phibsboro ends for me at south end of Cross Guns bridge

ClovenHoof

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It is also worth bearing in mind that if DU ever gets built, the services using the PPT line will likely be discontinued ( replaced by the two proposed DART services) so any a station ar Cross Guns Bridge would be on the future Maynooth DART line.

Why?

LXFlyer

Whatever may happen in the future, there are no plans within the funding budget for the project that will see Kildare Line services operate to Grand Canal Dock for any new stations.

I think that point needs to be emphasised before people get a bit carried away.

Perhaps in the future extra stations could be added if funds become available, but initially trains will be serving platform 10 at Heuston, Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

Whatever may happen in the future, there are no plans within the funding budget for the project that will see Kildare Line services operate to Grand Canal Dock for any new stations.

I think that point needs to be emphasised before people get a bit carried away.

Perhaps in the future extra stations could be added if funds become available, but initially trains will be serving platform 10 at Heuston, Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.

That's a problem in Ireland -- we as a people don't engage in the issue, we don't push for what's right and we end up with half of what we should.

Stations are not just added when there's funding, people have to push for them at all times.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

That's a problem in Ireland -- we as a people don't engage in the issue, we don't push for what's right and we end up with half of what we should.

Stations are not just added when there's funding, people have to push for them at all times.

Whether it's right or not in your mind, the reality is that there isn't the money to do it in the current funding budget. That needs to be made clear, before this thread goes that bit further.

The proposed schedule is for one train an hour to operate off-peak between the Kildare Line and Grand Canal Dock and four trains during the peak period (which probably means two each hour). That service level would not justify the level of investment being discussed.

However, were the service level to be increased in time, and with the revised DART service pattern arising from DART Underground, I think that you could see more stations added. But that is not going to happen in the medium term.

But people need to be realistic in their initial expectations.

alofek

I think people are being realistic in their expectations and understand that this is not going to happen in the immediate short term.
The Transport Minister in a speech today actually referenced the fact that by 2023 - we are going to have another 50,000 people commuting into city centre. See his own website for details.
It would seem obvious that making full use of the existing infrastructure would be one way of trying to plan for this.
Having a circa three mile stretch of track through (by Dublin's standards) a densely populated area without one single station seems on the face of it an inefficient use of available resources.