Phoenix Park tunnel

FredFunk

Can I ask a stupid question?
Will the trains be going straight into the tunnel or will there be a compulsory stop over
at Heuston?
If they have to stop at Heuston I don't see the point.

GerardKeating

FredFunk wrote: »

Can I ask a stupid question?
Will the trains be going straight into the tunnel or will there be a compulsory stop over
at Heuston?
If they have to stop at Heuston I don't see the point.

For the People whom want to get off at Heuston?

FredFunk

GerardKeating wrote: »

For the People whom want to get off at Heuston?

That would add extra time, you might aswell get the Luas or Dublin Bikes.
Heuston people can get the normal trains.

LXFlyer

You do realise that there is separate platform beside the mouth of the tunnel (platform 10) that these services would use and not the main station at Heuston?

FredFunk

lxflyer wrote: »

You do realise that there is separate platform beside the mouth of the tunnel (platform 10) that these services would use and not the main station at Heuston?

So how much turning etc would be required to get the train through the tunnel.
We are talking about efficiently getting staff to the main business hubs on the east of the city and any delays in this won't make it worthwhile. The Maynooth line currently has the advantage that it passes through Connolly, Tara, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.
I don't really care about anybody up to shop in Jervis.

LXFlyer

FredFunk wrote: »

So how much turning etc would be required to get the train through the tunnel.
We are talking about efficiently getting staff to the main business hubs on the east of the city and any delays in this won't make it worthwhile. The Maynooth line currently has the advantage that it passes through Connolly, Tara, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.
I don't really care about anybody up to shop in Jervis.

If you bothered to check your facts before going on a rant you would know that platform 10 is on the line that goes through the tunnel. There is no turning required. The trains will simply call at the platform and continue onwards.

What will be needed to be installed is a crossover to allow trains that are going towards Connolly and Grand Canal Dock leave the platform and access the tunnel, which is part of the plan.

Platform 10 can be seen towards the lefthand side of this link (to the right of the tracks going across the Liffey and into the tunnel): http://goo.gl/maps/4WD69

trellheim

and some sort of travelator perhaps to get people to the LUAS ? I can see this being opened from the beginning without an inbound stop and then perhaps added later

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

and some sort of travelator perhaps to get people to the LUAS ? I can see this being opened from the beginning without an inbound stop and then perhaps added later

The 145 bus would need to be extended up to Platform 10 to provide a link to the main station and the Quays - I don't see a travelator ever happening.

The crossover and associated signalling are all part of the project.

You could not leave Heuston out - that area and the Quays west of Capel Street is too big a market.

cgcsb

A travelator would be handy alright, but probably not that much use in Ireland, people will just stand on them and block people in a hurry trying to walk on them as we currently see at Dublin airport.

GerardKeating

FredFunk wrote: »

That would add extra time, you might aswell get the Luas or Dublin Bikes.
Heuston people can get the normal trains.

At most 2 minutes for the stop, I would need to slow down a bit for the curve into the tunnel and it passes the platform anyway.

Grandeeod

monument wrote: »

What's your issue with what they said?

This is what was quoted.

The Rail Users Ireland lobby group gave a guarded welcome to the news.

diverted

"If they're adding extra trains everyone is happy," said spokesman Mark Gleeson.

However, he warned that an "awkward situation" will arise "where some people will benefit and others won't" if existing trains are diverted for the new service.

Now considering it is still featured on their website as a "campaign", if one looks, one will see that its seriously out of date. I just felt their response to what they are probably most associated with after DU, came across as a bit lame and even vague. Personally I think Mark Gleeson's statement such as "awkward situation" was unhelpful and a type of fence sitting. I would have expected a more thorough assessment. But I'm basing my opinion on what was quoted.

Grandeeod

xper wrote: »

Their guarded reaction is perfectly reasonable. Diverting existing services, if that is what's planned, is indeed of dubious benefit. If they're additonal services then that is less of a problem. But it is not clear which it is.

The article is confused and contradictory, typically so for any Irish paper reporting on virtually any topic these days. It says that the new services will deliver passengers into the heart of the city but also says the new terminal will be Docklands station. Docklands is not the heart of the city by any stretch of the imagination and though physically nearer to the trip-generating destinations mentioned, it is not nearly as well connected to some of them as Heuston, and takes several minutes longer to get to. The map accompanying the article has Connolly as an intermediate stop between Drumcondra and Docklands. anyone vaguely familiar with Dublin's rail line layout knows this is pure misleading bull****. Who supplied this map I wonder?

Well one could assume that RUI were consulted and if you look at their website you will note that their article on the PPT has a graphic showing the route running to Spencer Dock (now Docklands). A simple google search on the PPT route does tend to throw up a lot of RUI/P11 material. If memory serves me correctly that graphic dates back to 2003, when that was the only realistic option. But it looks like a very lazy attitude now by RUI. I think the page needs to be updated to reflect the changes that have taken place since then. Its all well and good being quoted in the media, but you really need to have the source material up to date.

alofek

Does anybody know if any consideration has ever been given to the possibility of opening new stations at Stoneybatter/NCR, Cabra, or Phibsboro?

Carawaystick

alofek wrote: »

Does anybody know if any consideration has ever been given to the possibility of opening new stations at Stoneybatter/NCR, Cabra, or Phibsboro?

As far as I understand it, the lines are curved in Phibsboro and the railway safety commission rules do not allow new curved platforms, as they leave a big gap.
It's also very tight on the canal end line

scouserstation

alofek wrote: »

Does anybody know if any consideration has ever been given to the possibility of opening new stations at Stoneybatter/NCR, Cabra, or Phibsboro?

If feasible, it would be great to see an underground stop in the Phoenix park, also be good to have a stop in stoneybatter. Dont think it would be beneficial having stops in phibsboro or cabra as these areas will be served by the new luas cross city line directly into city centre.

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

As far as I understand it, the lines are curved in Phibsboro and the railway safety commission rules do not allow new curved platforms, as they leave a big gap.
It's also very tight on the canal end line

Cabra is probably the only feasible location.

Aard

Iirc the Phibsboro/Mountjoy LAP has a station at Cross Guns Bridge as an objective. I wonder if straightening of the line in this area is feasible.

monument

scouserstation wrote: »

If feasible, it would be great to see an underground stop in the Phoenix park, also be good to have a stop in stoneybatter. Dont think it would be beneficial having stops in phibsboro or cabra as these areas will be served by the new luas cross city line directly into city centre.

For a fairly high-density area, the Luas stop and potential train station location are a good distance apart.

The Luas stop location directly serves the area of the west of Phibsborough, the NCR, and Grangegorman Upper, while the potental train/Dart station directly serves the north of Phibsborough, the south of Glasnevin, the Finglas Road etc. The services would also both serve central Phibsborough with not too much walking and Luas/trains would serve different ending/starting points.

The goal is to have a rail network, and it's common for places like Phibsborough to be served by more than one station and type of service.

Once Dart Underground progresses it will be more and more untenable not to have a Phibsborough / Glasnevin station.

scouserstation

monument wrote: »

For a fairly high-density area, the Luas stop and potential train station location are a good distance apart.

The Luas stop location directly serves the area of the west of Phibsborough, the NCR, and Grangegorman Upper, while the potental train/Dart station directly serves the north of Phibsborough, the south of Glasnevin, the Finglas Road etc. The services would also both serve central Phibsborough with not too much walking and Luas/trains would serve different ending/starting points.

The goal is to have a rail network, and it's common for places like Phibsborough to be served by more than one station and type of service.

Once Dart Underground progresses it will be more and more untenable not to have a Phibsborough / Glasnevin station.

Yes when dart Underground (eventually) goes ahead the phibsboro stop would be a runner but at the moment for residents here it looks like the luas cross city line has much better connectivity to the City centre and to the north of the city when the airport extension gets built

scouserstation

monument wrote: »

For a fairly high-density area, the Luas stop and potential train station location are a good distance apart.

The Luas stop location directly serves the area of the west of Phibsborough, the NCR, and Grangegorman Upper, while the potental train/Dart station directly serves the north of Phibsborough, the south of Glasnevin, the Finglas Road etc. The services would also both serve central Phibsborough with not too much walking and Luas/trains would serve different ending/starting points.

The goal is to have a rail network, and it's common for places like Phibsborough to be served by more than one station and type of service.

Once Dart Underground progresses it will be more and more untenable not to have a Phibsborough / Glasnevin station.

Yes when dart Underground (eventually) goes ahead the phibsboro stop would be a runner but at the moment for residents here it looks like the luas cross city line has much better connectivity to the City centre and to the north of the city when the airport extension gets built

LeinsterDub

scouserstation wrote: »

Yes when dart Underground (eventually) goes ahead

I think you mean IF

Grandeeod

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I think you mean IF

And still a big IF. Recent news regarding road funding doesn't bode well for major rail based projects.

alofek

Personally, I think long-term - we should be looking at three stops on this stretch of rail to put it to full use.
- a stop above North Circular Road to serve the northern parts of Stoneybatter, lower parts of Blackhorse Avenue area, as well as Garda HQ, McKee Barracks and Dublin Zoo, which is country's biggest visitor attraction.
- a stop at Cabra at the old quarry lands, which would serve quite a different part of Cabra to Luas Cross City, including a new development planned at this site for a very high-density develoment.
- and obviously the most important one would be coming up with an engineering solution to provide a stop at Phibsboro, which again would serve Phibsboro itself, parts of Glasnevin, Dalymount, arguably even Glasnevin Cemetery & the Mater.

Pete_Cavan

Three stations between Hueston and Pibsborough is too many on such a short stretch. If they are being served by Kildare services these stations will delay the trains too much and there is unlikely to be enough demand for a new service to serve these stations. Dublin Bus and Luas suffer from too many stops/stations too close together. Better to have fewer stations but increase the catchment area of each by having proper bicycle parking and good cycle lanes on approach to the station.

LXFlyer

Exactly - one station would be sufficient, and in my view the only suitable location is at Cabra.

Anyone wanting to go to Phibsboro or the Mater can walk from Drumcondra.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

Exactly - one station would be sufficient, and in my view the only suitable location is at Cabra.

Anyone wanting to go to Phibsboro or the Mater can walk from Drumcondra.

With Dart on the Maynooth line, a 3km gap between Broombridge and Drumcondra would be nothing short of outrageous.

North of Sydney Parade Dart Station the spacing of stations is around 800m between each one... it's ~1m between Drumcondra and Phibsboro, and from Phibsboro it's nearly 2km to both Broombridge or the Cabra Road end of the quarry... Why would the northside with higher density be treated so differently?

In fact, there's more of a case for stations on the northside at locations like Hart's Corner and Ballybough Rd given intersects with an arterial routes.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

With Dart on the Maynooth line, a 3km gap between Broombridge and Drumcondra would be nothing short of outrageous.

North of Sydney Parade Dart Station the spacing of stations is around 800m... it's ~1m between Drumcondra and Phibsboro... Why would the northside with higher density be treated so differently?

In fact, there's more of a case for stations on the northside at locations like Hart's Corner and Ballybough Rd given intersects with an arterial routes.

I am not talking about DART and nor is this thread about DART - the question was asked in relation to the Phoenix Park Tunnel which will be used by a limited diesel service to Grand Canal Dock from the Kildare Line.

That's the context of my reply.

However, there are clearance issues from Glasnevin Junction eastwards, and westward it's surrounded by a graveyard.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

However, there are clearance issues from Glasnevin Junction eastwards, and westward it's surrounded by a graveyard.

LXFlyer

I would suggest that you have another look at that location in the flesh - the railway is in a tight cutting.

The areas you're highlighting are at the top of that cutting, and I suspect some are private lands.

Aard

In terms of strategic transport planning, Cross Guns (Phibsboro) would be very important for interchanges from Finglas/Ballymun. A station on the line here would allow for bus-rail transfers. This would greatly improve access to the Dublin 2/4 officeland. This would allow Dublin 11 commuters to bypass the surface congestion and take rail instead.