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Phoenix Park tunnel

  • 20-08-2013 11:22am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    I found this interesting . Thought I'd share
    Opening a passenger rail line under the Phoenix Park in Dublin would not be an adequate alternative to the construction of Dart Underground, Iarnród Éireann has said.
    The National Transport Authority (NTA) recently announced plans to start passenger services to connect the city’s two main stations through the 136-year-old tunnel line between Connolly and Heuston. The journey would take about eight minutes.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/phoenix-park-tunnel-no-alternative-to-dart-underground-1.1499167


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭ Tripp


    There was a thread on this a while ago
    Here


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ petronius


    Of course it is no substitute for a Dart Underground
    However the tunnel is there why not use it -
    It would help with connectivity - linking commuters with the Maynooth Line and the Kildare Line

    Adamstown to Drumcondra (For Croke Park Matches, or Colleges) or the IFSC
    Surely a service docklands/Connolly to Kildare would itself be a success

    You could have new stations at North Circular Rd/Phoneix Park - or Cara/Old cabra road


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    Noboby would use it. Buses are cheaper, much more frequent, quicker, and take you to O'Connell St from Cabra/Drumcondra. The Luas from Heuston is preferable too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ petronius


    I think a rail link from Kidare to IFSC would be used.
    There seems to be a healthy traffic using Kildare line - Heuston - Luas- IFSC

    I think there would also be scope for special services for Matches and Concerts in Croke Park, Concerts in the Point Depot
    Would give better public transport options for people attending St. Pats Drumcondra, Mater Dei, DCU by bus - also if it links with the LUAS BXD line the new DIT in Grangegorman would be linked to it

    The think is to have connectivity and frequent services and harmonised ticketing


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    True, I saw a man with a dog once get out in Docklands and head off to the IFSC.
    CIE don't think it's cost effective.
    But what do they know...........?
    Probably got their sums wrong trying to be clever with their fancy passenger polls.
    The best way is to just have a quick think and you'll know what will work.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭ Judgement Day


    cabrasnake wrote: »
    True, I saw a man with a dog once get out in Docklands and head off to the IFSC.
    CIE don't think it's cost effective.
    But what do they know...........?
    Probably got their sums wrong trying to be clever with their fancy passenger polls.
    The best way is to just have a quick think and you'll know what will work.

    Is this post supposed to be funny, sarcastic, pro-CIE or what? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    No one in the NTA or IE said it was a suitable alternative to DART underground - it could certainly complement it.

    There is a big difference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    cabrasnake wrote: »
    Noboby would use it. Buses are cheaper, much more frequent, quicker, and take you to O'Connell St from Cabra/Drumcondra. The Luas from Heuston is preferable too.

    The train would be faster to Pearse and Grand Canal Dock where much of the CBD is located.

    LUAS does not serve these areas at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Its a very useful line. Unlike say the Western Rail Corridor, Irish Rail.

    Wonder if the route would serve Drumcondra, or even a new stop at Cabra or a Luas interchange. Opens up new possibilities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    It would serve Drumcondra as there is no connection to the other line at Glasnevin Junction.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭ theSHU


    They should build a new station "Connolly-North" on the Newcommen Cruve and terminate all suburban trains from Kildare at it. They can then build their planned intercity bus terminal on the car-park at Connolly Station which would result in a proper integrated transport hub.

    The Phoenix Park Line has huge potential:
    • the Zoo/Phoenix Park
    • Glasnevin Cemetary (one of Ireland's most visited attractions)
    • National Botanic Gardens
    • Croke Park
    • The Mater Hospital
    • Cabra


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    Delusionary.
    Nobody from Kildare line/Heuston wants to go to those places.
    As CIE well know.
    Hence their indifference to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    cabrasnake wrote: »
    Delusionary.
    Nobody from Kildare line/Heuston wants to go to those places.
    As CIE well know.
    Hence their indifference to it.

    Rubbish - they did not express indifference. They were asked if it was a substitute for DART underground, there is a difference.

    As for no one wanting to use it - my eyes must deceive me at the loadings that remain on the 145 every morning to the south city CBD. People travelling there would I would suggest prefer a direct train to Grand Canal Dock or Pearse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ petronius


    stations at the NCR /Park/Zoo, Cabra rd /Cabra/Luas, Phibsboro. it would compliment dart underground
    it would also
    new stops would give people a connection to the northern line, the sligo line, and the kildare cork line(and eventually the dart underground)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭ theSHU


    cabrasnake wrote: »
    Delusionary.
    Nobody from Kildare line/Heuston wants to go to those places.
    As CIE well know.
    Hence their indifference to it.

    They can always stay on the train and get off at Connolly or if the signalling allows, off at Tara or Pearse etc. Or they can get off at Hueston and get the Luas/bus as normal..

    CIE were tunnelled visioned on Dart Underground and the grandeur it would give them. The reality is it will cost €4billion and no government will stump up that cash for the forseable future.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    Ergo. Blow 12 million so yer man and his dog can jaunt up to Pearse and visit the RSPCA.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Rubbish - they did not express indifference. They were asked if it was a substitute for DART underground, there is a difference.

    As for no one wanting to use it - my eyes must deceive me at the loadings that remain on the 145 every morning to the south city CBD. People travelling there would I would suggest prefer a direct train to Grand Canal Dock or Pearse.

    Don't fool yourself. The PP tunnell 'plan' is buried in cobwebs. Nobody on the 145 is going to the Docklands area. Except yer man and his dog. And the dog would rather get the Luas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    cabrasnake wrote: »
    Don't fool yourself. The PP tunnell 'plan' is buried in cobwebs. Nobody on the 145 is going to the Docklands area. Except yer man and his dog. And the dog would rather get the Luas.

    I was talking about the south city CBD which both Pearse and Grand Canal Dock stations are adjacent to.

    Neither is served by LUAS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ petronius


    There is another recent tread about the Phoneix Park tunnel and the recent article in the newspaper
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86116492&posted=1#post86116492

    I posted about how I think a circular route using the DART underground sligo line and park tunnel would connect all Urban Rail, and Luas lines in dublin adding value to them all


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭ stoneill


    Train to Connolly would be preferable than Hueston - sure, you are still only half way to town at Hueston.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,467 Oasis_Dublin


    Haven't Iarnrod Éireann said no to the PPT idea since yesterday?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Haven't Iarnrod Éireann said no to the PPT idea since yesterday?

    No they didn't.

    They said in The Irish Times that it wasn't an alternative to DART Underground (which it isn't) and that they hadn't done any detailed planning yet.

    But some journalist at breakingnews.ie then turned that into IE saying "no".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,467 Oasis_Dublin


    lxflyer wrote: »
    No they didn't.

    They said in The Irish Times that it wasn't an alternative to DART Underground (which it isn't) and that they hadn't done any detailed planning yet.

    But some journalist at breakingnews.ie then turned that into IE saying "no".

    Ah yes, it was the breaknews.ie story that I came across. Thanks for clearing that up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 636 ✭✭✭ Jayuu


    The problem I see with this is that it dumps more trains into Connolly which is already jammed up enough with commuter and Dart services.

    If this journey would take 8 minutes what is the comparable timeframe for getting out at Heuston, getting a Luas and then getting off at Connolly or Busaras. I would have though at peak time you could do this in around 10-15 minutes. Is it worth spending money when there already is a reasonable alternative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,805 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    Jayuu wrote: »
    The problem I see with this is that it dumps more trains into Connolly which is already jammed up enough with commuter and Dart services.

    If this journey would take 8 minutes what is the comparable timeframe for getting out at Heuston, getting a Luas and then getting off at Connolly or Busaras. I would have though at peak time you could do this in around 10-15 minutes. Is it worth spending money when there already is a reasonable alternative.

    The point is that this is after the city centre resignalling is completed when extra paths will be available.

    Frankly this is the NTA trying to make sure that they get a return on their investment, which is pretty small at €12m.

    It's not about just getting to Connolly though, it is about providing connectivity with the rest of the network and providing a direct link to the south city CBD at Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The point is that this is after the city centre resignalling is completed when extra paths will be available.

    Frankly this is the NTA trying to make sure that they get a return on their investment, which is pretty small at €12m.


    Yes and it is a very good idea. Even if it only saves 10 minutes from Connolly to Hueston, that would still be a big gain for a relatively paltry €12 million.

    Even better if it is developed further in future with a stop at Phoenix Park/Dublin Zoo in future, crazy that such a nice park and tourist attraction doesn't have a station of it's own.

    I see some politics in play here. Irish Rail are afraid to develop this tunnel as they think it will mean that it will be less likely that Dart Underground will go ahead. People would ask, why do we need to spend €2 Billion on DU when we already have a tunnel.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely see the need for DU, but many Joe Duffy type listeners wouldn't.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    More fanciful guesswork. The upgraded signalling will allow an extra 8 trains per hour over the Loop line bridge. Nearly all that will be taken up by some extra DARTs to fill current schedule gaps, but more importantly extra services on the Northern commuter line/Maynooth line/Rosslare line where there is big suppressed demand.
    Any magical mystery train tours of de nortside inner city from Heuston will be exiled to Docklands.
    You won't be going from Heuston to LA Grande canal dock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,467 Oasis_Dublin


    Is there a huge demand on the Wexford line?! I was on it recently, and I could quite easily get on a seat of my choice at Dun Laoghaire. It's slower than a car and, although a lot cheaper than it was in the past (if you book ahead), I would be surprised if an extra train or two during the day is going to increase those using such a service by a very large amount.


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ petronius


    I also completely agree with the DART Underground (I may not agree with the precise route but either way it is a good idea)
    for a relatively small cost a kildare to connolly/docklands route can be instated
    the look at building stations at Phoenix Park/Dublin Zoo, Cabra, Phibsboro.

    With a bit of imagination a Phibsboro Station could be built which platfoms on both the line which runs north of croke park and the on aside the canal


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ cabrasnake


    Why would anybody get a train in Phibsboro when the bus is cheaper, quicker, more frequent and brings you to OCS?


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