Irish teenager is 'being beaten to hell' in a Cairo prison

studiorat

bumper234 wrote: »

Emotive tosh lol. What has something that MAY have happened EIGHT years ago got to do with what's happened this week to these children?

The Emotive tosh is referring to them as "children".

bumper234

studiorat wrote: »

The Emotive tosh is referring to them as "children".

One of them is a 17 year old boy.

theUbiq

crazygweilo wrote: »

While I feel sympathy, the reality is this. Egypt is too valuable to us all to loose to a bunch of religious fanatics. 1957 taught us that. Religious fanatics can only be dealt with in one fashion only. Let's be damn clear how.

Cattle prods and Alsatians. Nothing else works. If they love God so much, hurry up and join him.

Really? perhaps it got too lonely under your rock so you've decided to spout some xenophobic ****e on AH. maybe you're American?

studiorat

bumper234 wrote: »

One of them is a 17 year old boy.

Why do you keep saying children then? :rolleyes:

Did you see him addressing the rally?

theUbiq

conorhal wrote: »

The Muslim Brotherhood are supporters of Democracy in the manner that Vladimir Putin is a supporter of democracy. The EU set aside five billion euro in aid for Egypt when the Brotherhood came to power, but made that aid conditional meeting certian criteria of democratic reform. Unsurprisingly, in two years none of that aid has been released to their government, which should give you a good indication of just how democratic the Muslim Brotherhood are.

The 4 of them went to Egypt to join a demo in protest of an American sponsored military coup in Egypt. I'm well aware of what the Muslim brotherhood is. They won the election fair and square or didn't they?

bumper234

studiorat wrote: »

Why do you keep saying children then? :rolleyes:

Did you see him addressing the rally?

No i didn't. Does he say "radical things" ?

theUbiq wrote: »

The 4 of them went to Egypt to join a demo in protest of an American sponsored military coup in Egypt. I'm well aware of what the Muslim brotherhood is. They won the election fair and square or didn't they?

No.

They went to Egypt weeks before any of these protests started, Or are you going to say they/their Father knew what was going to happen and they went ahead to be ready for it?:rolleyes:

brimal

bumper234 wrote: »

And you are focusing on a meeting that may have took place in Dublin 8 years ago so yes it is an allegation with no proof whatsoever. Also you have one journalists word that the protocols where bought up at this meeting. No hard evidence and nothing since

Don't give me that bollox.

What 'hard evidence' do you need? Video footage? Signed confession by the council member? 'Nothing since'? The journalist was only at that particular meeting, no more. How could he get more evidence? Would you even accept it? You seem to think nothing reported by newspapers should be given as fact.

Again, not so much focused on the meeting itself, just curious as to the links between the imam of Clonskeagh, ECFR and the vile Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

bumper234 wrote: »

Emotive tosh lol. What has something that MAY have happened EIGHT years ago got to do with what's happened this week to these children?

For the third time - nothing. I found a post in this thread interesting and followed up on it.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Protocols book was used my a council member in the particular meeting the WSJ journalist attended, I'm curious as to what else is discussed and goes on in these meetings.

Scan of the print edition of the WSJ in question here: http://www.zmo.de/pressekit/material/Wall_Street_BG.pdf

This will be my last time replying to you - your posting style is rather immature and grating to be honest. You seem to have taken great offence by my questioning of these links, and have gone on the defensive from the start. Not a good basis for discussion.

bumper234

brimal wrote: »

Don't give me that bollox.

What 'hard evidence' do you need? Video footage? Signed confession by the council member? 'Nothing since'? The journalist was only at that particular meeting, no more. How could he get more evidence? Would you even accept it? You seem to think nothing reported by newspapers should be given as fact.

Again, not so much focused on the meeting itself, just curious as to the links between the imam of Clonskeagh, ECFR and the vile Yusuf al-Qaradawi.



For the third time - nothing. I found a post in this thread interesting and followed up on it.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Protocols book was used my a council member in the particular meeting the WSJ journalist attended, I'm curious as to what else is discussed and goes on in these meetings.

Scan of the print edition of the WSJ in question here: http://www.zmo.de/pressekit/material/Wall_Street_BG.pdf

This will be my last time replying to you - your posting style is rather immature and grating to be honest. You seem to have taken great offence by my questioning of these links, and have gone on the defensive from the start. Not a good basis for discussion.

No worries, I have just noticed your location.....no agenda there right? :rolleyes:

denhaagenite

bumper234 wrote: »

They went to Egypt weeks before any of these protests started, Or are you going to say they/their Father knew what was going to happen and they went ahead to be ready for it?:rolleyes:

Nobody is disputing this. Being in Egypt is not the issue. "Sightseeing" at a time and place that there is unrest and likelihood of injury, death or arrest during a Muslim Brotherhood demonstration which was going on for over a week is the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of Egyptians staying indoors or at least away from trouble spots at this time in order to avoid any conflict with police, military and demonstrators alike. The Halawa family, however, did not.

I'm not saying that the Department of Foreign Affairs should not help them, as far as I am concerned they are Irish citizens. I'm saying that they could have completely avoided the situation that they're in, and their family wringing their hands is making a mockery of us all.

Stheno

All four may be charged with some serious offences

Concern for the fate of four Irish siblings detained during unrest in Cairo has increased following reports in the Egyptian media that they are among nine foreign nationals being investigated for charges including attempted murder, possessing firearms and belonging to a militant group.
The reports claim that the nine foreigners, who also include Canadian, Turkish and Syrian nationals, deny all charges relating to the siege of Cairo’s al-Fath mosque at the weekend. While the four Irish citizens were not named by the media outlets, it is understood they are the Halawa siblings, Omaima (21), Fatima (23), Soumaya (27) and brother Ebraheem (17).
Egyptian media reported that a Cairo prosecution office yesterday ordered the nine foreigners be jailed for 15 days pending investigations into deadly violence that erupted around the mosque on Friday and continued into Saturday.

humanji

bumper234 wrote: »

No worries, I have just noticed your location.....no agenda there right? :rolleyes:

Cut that out. Discuss the topic without getting personal.

brimal

The Department of Foreign Affairs issued a travel advisory for Egypt on the 17th, and encouraged Irish citizens not to partake in protests

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=41615

Protests

We strongly advise Irish citizens who are currently in Egypt to exercise extreme caution, to avoid all protests and demonstrations and to monitor this travel advice and the local media for updates on the situation. Protests and demonstrations can turn violent, often without warning, and there have been cases where this violence has resulted in large numbers of deaths and injuries. If caught up in a demonstration, Irish citizens should not attempt to take photographs and should leave the area immediately. Irish citizens may wish to assess their need to remain in Egypt at this time.

denhaagenite

wrote:

Terrorism

In addition to the possibility of protests and demonstrations, Irish citizens should be aware that there is a threat of terrorism in Egypt.

Security incidents can occur without warning. Irish citizens travelling to Egypt should maintain a high level of personal security awareness and exercise caution, particularly in commercial establishments and public areas. They should also monitor local developments, avoid demonstrations and follow the advice of their tour operators as well as the local authorities

The note was last updated on the 17th, the whole note was not written on the 17th.

Sunglasses Ron

brimal wrote: »

The Department of Foreign Affairs issued a travel advisory for Egypt on the 17th, and encouraged Irish citizens not to partake in protests

Now I have this mad image in my head of a load of boyos on a lads jolly in Sharm al Sheik thinking it would be good craic to head into the town and mull among the militant marching mad mullahs whilst brandishing Down With This Sort of Thing and Careful Now placards.

studiorat

bumper234 wrote: »

They went to Egypt weeks before any of these protests started, Or are you going to say they/their Father knew what was going to happen and they went ahead to be ready for it?:rolleyes:

Why were they then addressing a Muslim Brotherhood rally in Rabaa square?

conorhal

theUbiq wrote: »

The 4 of them went to Egypt to join a demo in protest of an American sponsored military coup in Egypt. I'm well aware of what the Muslim brotherhood is. They won the election fair and square or didn't they?

So did Hitler's National Socialists, what's you point?

Like I said earlier, going to join the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is a bit like going to Nazi Germany to fight against Stalin. There is nothing admirable about the actions of the Halaw's.
People on this thread have mentioned how Irish socialists also went to join the anti facist fighters against Franco in Spain during the Spanish civil war, they are kind of quiet about the Catholic fundie blueshirts that went there to fight on Franco's side however.
In other words, when it comes to apportioning my sympathy and support for peoples actions, context is everything.

denhaagenite

studiorat wrote: »

Why were they then addressing a Muslim Brotherhood rally in Rabaa square?

Sorry, don't know if I missed this back along the thread, have you got a link?

wes

conorhal wrote: »

Like I said earlier, going to join the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is a bit like going to Nazi Germany to fight against Stalin. There is nothing admirable about the actions of the Halaw's.

Except they weren't involved in any fighting, so you comparison is nonsense, and deliberately misleading. They were involved in a protest, and have been arrested for that and nothing else. Now if your ok with arresting people, for protesting, then more power to you, but stop pretending that they were involved in any kind of fighting, as you are being rather dishonest.

dr.bollocko

Studiorat banned.

conorhal

wes wrote: »

Except they weren't involved in any fighting, so you comparison is nonsense, and deliberately misleading. They were involved in a protest, and have been arrested for that and nothing else. Now if your ok with arresting people, for protesting, then more power to you, but stop pretending that they were involved in any kind of fighting, as you are being rather dishonest.

Honestly, if you want an example of a positive campaigner for civil rights in the Islamic world, I'd stick with the very brave Malala Yousafzai if I were you, because the Halawa's and their ever changing story do your creadiblity no favours.

Sunglasses Ron

So their Dad is aligned with this fellow.

"Are raped women punished in Islam?", and a panel headed by Qaradawi replied: "To be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct... Islam addresses women to maintain their modesty, as not to open the door for evil... The Koran calls upon Muslim women in general to preserve their dignity and modesty, just to save themselves from any harassment... So for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens... her dignity for deflowering.

Under a slightly similar interpretation, if you don't want to end up charged with killing security forces in Egypt stay away from violent protests.

I can't wait for their defense now.

wes

conorhal wrote: »

Honestly, if you want an example of a positive campaigner for civil rights in the Islamic world, I'd stick with the very brave Malala Yousafzai if I were you, because the Halawa's and their ever changing story do your creadiblity no favours.

It doesn't matter what they were protesting for, they have every right to protest for what ever stupid cause they wish, as long as they do so peacefully.

Care to detail how the Halawa's were being dishonest btw then?

You on the other hand deliberately try to insinuate they were engaged in violence. You were being dishonest, and refuse to acknowledge that you were being so. So its not my credibility isn't in any danger, rather it is yours. If you are supportive of arresting and shooting protesters in the street, then more power to you.

wes

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

So their Dad is aligned with this fellow.

Under a slightly similar interpretation, if you don't want to end up charged with killing security forces in Egypt stay away from violent protests.

I can't wait for their defense now.

So, let me get this straight, they deserve to be arrested on the basis of there father being aligned to someone........ Not anything they have done, but because of something that someone aligned to there father said. If we are to cheer arrests on that basis, then pretty much anyone can be linked to dodgy characters that way.

Yeah, thats some right proper nonsense right there.

Rightwing

Egypt,,,it's becoming a wasteland.

brimal

If the boy is only 17, then it is assumed he would have told his father he was out protesting?

Why would the imam allow his son to protest when there was a huge chance of violence and also a travel advisory by the DFA?

denhaagenite

wes wrote: »

It doesn't matter what they were protesting for, they have every right to protest for what ever stupid cause they wish, as long as they do so peacefully.

Care to detail how the Halawa's were being dishonest btw then?

You on the other hand deliberately try to insinuate they were engaged in violence. You were being dishonest, and refuse to acknowledge that you were being so. So its not my credibility isn't in any danger, rather it is yours. If you are supportive of arresting and shooting protesters in the street, then more power to you.

But we don't really know what they were doing there, that's the thing. If the family in Ireland had had any sense or care for their wellbeing they would have told them at the very least to stay away from any hotspots. It is a fact that they didn't.

There are far more comparisons to be drawn to the London Riots and what's been happening in Cairo- not politically, just in terms of people peacefully protesting/ troublemaking here and people going from work/ looking for opportunities to loot in London. The authorities in Cairo are probably at the moment trying to establish whether or not people were involved in violence, accessories to violence or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't believe that this is going to be an easy one.

Sunglasses Ron

wes wrote: »

So, let me get this straight, they deserve to be arrested on the basis of there father being aligned to someone........

Not exactly. What I find amusing is that in the coming days we will be hearing all about why these arrests are so wrong and unjust from a father who is closely aligned with a figure who claims that one can deservedly invite trouble from others onto themselves by their conduct. Even the most blinkered people posting here can see the irony in that one surely.

Was their father on the panel that was asked this question per chance?

Were these kids involved in violence? I have no idea. But they were protesting in favour of a medieval sect being returned to power, so I don't really care either way.

Rightwing

so they are not as innocent as i thought. no place to be messing about,,,,that's for sure

wes

denhaagenite wrote: »

But we don't really know what they were doing there, that's the thing. If the family in Ireland had had any sense or care for their wellbeing they would have told them at the very least to stay away from any hotspots. It is a fact that they didn't.

How could they possibly have known that the military would escalate thing with violence. There protests going on in Egypt for week before this happened.

denhaagenite wrote: »

There are far more comparisons to be drawn to the London Riots and what's been happening in Cairo- not politically, just in terms of people peacefully protesting/ troublemaking here and people going from work/ looking for opportunities to loot in London. The authorities in Cairo are probably at the moment trying to establish whether or not people were involved in violence, accessories to violence or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't believe that this is going to be an easy one.

Most of the violence is being carried out by the authorities, who refused a political solution and decided on a violent one instead. There is no real comparison to the London riots to be made, as the British police and military were not killed people in the streets.

conorhal

brimal wrote: »

If the boy is only 17, then it is assumed he would have told his father he was out protesting?

Why would the imam allow his son to protest when there was a huge chance of violence and also a travel advisory by the DFA?

Becuse his father is closely alligned with the Muslim Brotherhood and serveral radical clerics that were invited to speak at the Clonskeagh Islamic center, one of whom has issued a fatwa to encourage Muslims to fight for the Brotherhood in Egypt perhaps?

I'd imagine that the answer to that question would be that he has no issue with his son's actions.