Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

bruschi

blueflame wrote: »

Problem with that is hurling is a very different game to football. In football it is relatively easy to defend you goal by packing that area. In hurling we have seen goals scored from 21 year frees with half the opposition on the line. Also n football majority of scores are gotten from within a 20 to 40 yard radius of goal, in hurling a good side will pick you off no problem from 70 - 80 yards out and drag you out. Also the sliothar travels at least twice as far and probably twice as fast as the football.

yup. Wexfords inability to score long range points was a serious flaw in their game to counteract Waterfords defensive structure. If you have teams picking off points from midfield or even further back, then having all the players inside your own half wont make a difference. It was comical to see Wexford not even try counteract by doing this, especially in the second half with a strong wind behind them. A good team wont do this, and especially the likes of Cork who pose little goal threat with their team, and are excellent point scorers from long distance.

hurler on de ditch

blueflame wrote: »

Problem with that is hurling is a very different game to football. In football it is relatively easy to defend you goal by packing that area. In hurling we have seen goals scored from 21 year frees with half the opposition on the line. Also n football majority of scores are gotten from within a 20 to 40 yard radius of goal, in hurling a good side will pick you off no problem from 70 - 80 yards out and drag you out. Also the sliothar travels at least twice as far and probably twice as fast as the football.

well said,

deiseach

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

I spoke to loads of Wexford lads this week some of them ex county lads and some very good club lads ,most if not all had the same to say ,Wexford are in an awful state/disgraceful,etc that they could not beat Waterford at home and Waterford playing with such negativity ,help us now if we meet Tipp,KK,or Cork ,

They were not so convinced Wexford were in an awful state/disgraceful before the game when over 8,000 of them paid good money expecting Waterford to get a second helping of what we saw in Nowlan Park last summer. Unfortunately for them, Waterford have moved on. We'll get a better insight into how much further on Sunday.

Ropaire

deiseach wrote: »

They were not so convinced Wexford were in an awful state/disgraceful before the game when over 8,000 of them paid good money expecting Waterford to get a second helping of what we saw in Nowlan Park last summer. Unfortunately for them, Waterford have moved on. We'll get a better insight into how much further on Sunday.

They hit the post in the second half with the goal wide open and if that went in would have been three down. Even though their defense was crap we still stayed negative and as they carried more of a goal threat than us it would have been a nervous finish had they gotten a goal.
Galway will carry a serious goal threat, if they hit us for 2 or 3 goals we're in serious trouble as I don't see how we're going to score any ourselves. Cork have been putting up massive scores even when not getting goals and they'll be delighted if we play like this against them. It's hypothetical though, we'll have a better idea on Sunday where we are.

deiseach

Ropaire wrote: »

They hit the post in the second half with the goal wide open and if that went in would have been three down. Even though their defense was crap we still stayed negative and as they carried more of a goal threat than us it would have been a nervous finish had they gotten a goal.
Galway will carry a serious goal threat, if they hit us for 2 or 3 goals we're in serious trouble as I don't see how we're going to score any ourselves. Cork have been putting up massive scores even when not getting goals and they'll be delighted if we play like this against them. It's hypothetical though, we'll have a better idea on Sunday where we are.

I wouldn't argue with any of that. Galway will be a big step-up, the range of matches they've played is obviously going to be of a much greater intensity than what we have faced. What I'm saying is that it's right cheeky of the Wexford lads to be telling us after the game that they're a load of garbage. If they were so pessimistic about their team's standing, why was there such a great turnout for a League match? They expected to bate the tar out of us and when they didn't, well, it couldn't be because Waherfurd are any good, could it?! I enjoy the image of them floundering.

(Please note I'm taking hurler on de ditch's comment at face value.)

hurler on de ditch

deiseach wrote: »

I wouldn't argue with any of that. Galway will be a big step-up, the range of matches they've played is obviously going to be of a much greater intensity than what we have faced. What I'm saying is that it's right cheeky of the Wexford lads to be telling us after the game that they're a load of garbage. If they were so pessimistic about their team's standing, why was there such a great turnout for a League match? They expected to bate the tar out of us and when they didn't, well, it couldn't be because Waherfurd are any good, could it?! I enjoy the image of them floundering.

(Please note I'm taking hurler on de ditch's comment at face value.)

IT WAS A HOME GAME WITH winner takes all ,wtf did you expect with probably the first decent game Wexford people got to see this year ,did you expect 1000 people to show up ,that's ridiculous!and isn't it always the way when teams get beat ,lads would be saying ,ah we were **** /brutal/not even fit ,,give credit it to the winners ,,we were better on the day playing a ****e brand of hurling(or footling donegal style) that wont hold up in the championship,and when thousands turn up to games now is that because they think they will beat you out the gate ,no their are hoping it will be a good day out for their team and a good result ,,i remember out side walsh park the week atfer beating kk in nolan park in the league ,we were playing Galway at home (second game)and they were thousands trying to get in ,we were supposed to win the All Ireland that year ,imagine beating kk in Nolan park ,

PTH2009

a defeat sunday is not the end of the world but it would be disapointing.

I just think Galway are a level above us at the moment

deiseach

deiseach wrote: »

(Please note I'm taking hurler on de ditch's comment at face value.)

My mistake.

Mountainlad

When did we beat KK in Nowlan Park, 2007?

deiseach

We last beat Kilkenny in Nowlan Park in 2004, 0-15 to 1-10. Five straight defeats since.

Edit: Tomás McCarthy has a bit about it here.

Mountainlad

deiseach wrote: »

We last beat Kilkenny in Nowlan Park in 2004, 0-15 to 1-10. Five straight defeats since.

Edit: Tomás McCarthy has a bit about it here.

What was the year we played them in Walsh Park and the place was full? Think we lost by few points, and they had the yellow card sub rule or sin bin or whatever it was thing on trial. 2003?

HatchetMan7

We've played 15 on 15 for the last 16 years and closest we've got is a 30+ hammering in the all Ireland final. Yes in an ideal world we'd play 15 on 15 and beat all the top teams but you must be realistic. This system suits this Waterford side so far and I think we should stick to it until we find out otherwise.

Mountainlad

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

We've played 15 on 15 for the last 16 years and closest we've got is a 30+ hammering in the all Ireland final. Yes in an ideal world we'd play 15 on 15 and beat all the top teams but you must be realistic. This system suits this Waterford side so far and I think we should stick to it until we find out otherwise.

In that interview with Newstalk, McGrath hinted they might go a bit more positive on Sunday. They went 15 v 15 first half against Galway last year and were by far the better team and it was only when dropping a man back that we looked to have handed the initiative over, Galway got a goal but we held on.

I know the game will be far more intense but the lads are playing on a different level to the rest of 1B so should be able for it. If you pack the midfield the way they did I don't think that teams are going to be able to pick off points from distance as easily as stated.

The big flaw as I see it is as mentioned you haven't much hope of scoring a goal, so we would need to be scoring in the order of the 0-22 we got at the weekend every game and to be honest I think that would be difficult to achieve. There'll have to be adaptability. Any team that can only play one way won't be the best around.

deisedude

Have to laugh when people insist Kilkenny just play 15 on 15 and as if tactics is a dirty word. Kilkenny often have 2-3 players on the opposition player with possession. That's the exact opposite of playing 15 on 15.

This isn't a sleight on Kilkenny. It is obviously very effective

deiseach

Mountainlad wrote: »

What was the year we played them in Walsh Park and the place was full? Think we lost by few points, and they had the yellow card sub rule or sin bin or whatever it was thing on trial. 2003?

Lost by 11 points in 2003. 1999, maybe? We lost by four points. I was down in Dingle on a field trip and remember being crushed when I heard we'd lost. Trying desperately to maintain the vibe of '98...

deiseach

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

We've played 15 on 15 for the last 16 years and closest we've got is a 30+ hammering in the all Ireland final. Yes in an ideal world we'd play 15 on 15 and beat all the top teams but you must be realistic. This system suits this Waterford side so far and I think we should stick to it until we find out otherwise.

We certainly added to the gaiety of nations, didn't we? The darling of every neutral and TV producer in the land.

I'd like to give much-despised winning machine a try, thanks.

Professey Chin

deisedude wrote: »

Have to laugh when people insist Kilkenny just play 15 on 15 and as if tactics is a dirty word. Kilkenny often have 2-3 players on the opposition player with possession. That's the exact opposite of playing 15 on 15.

This isn't a sleight on Kilkenny. It is obviously very effective

They line up 15 vs 15 but holy hell they work hard. Those 3 on 1 situations come from discipline and hard work instead of an extra man in midfield usually. Like if a wing back has it and moves forward he has a wing back, a midfielder and a wing forward coming at him from different sides . They bottle him up, win the ball then reset again. It's just impressive to watch really.

Mountainlad

deiseach wrote: »

Lost by 11 points in 2003. 1999, maybe? We lost by four points. I was down in Dingle on a field trip and remember being crushed when I heard we'd lost. Trying desperately to maintain the vibe of '98...

Nah, probably 2005 actually now that I think of it. Massive crowd.

deiseach

Professey Chin wrote: »

They line up 15 vs 15 but holy hell they work hard. Those 3 on 1 situations come from discipline and hard work instead of an extra man in midfield usually. Like if a wing back has it and moves forward he has a wing back, a midfielder and a wing forward coming at him from different sides . They bottle him up, win the ball then reset again. It's just impressive to watch really.

But that's enough about how they deal with referees.

deiseach

Looking through all those games against Kilkenny in recent years, you can understand the frustration of the likes of Wexford and Limerick for not having many chances to have a go at them. Yes, they'll smack you down on a frequent basis. But taking on the best is what sport is all about, testing yourself. It would almost be disappointing if after all our efforts we ended up passing them out on the way up.

Almost, but not quite

Ropaire

Mountainlad wrote: »

Nah, probably 2005 actually now that I think of it. Massive crowd.

Was it not 2009? First cut off them since the All Ireland? I remember Eoin Kelly and Tommy Walsh getting yellows, Tommy trotting off and Kelly taking a minute to realise he'd been sent off as a result of the rules and then running after Tommy to hit him a skelp.

Mountainlad

Ropaire wrote: »

Was it not 2009? First cut off them since the All Ireland? I remember Eoin Kelly and Tommy Walsh getting yellows, Tommy trotting off and Kelly taking a minute to realise he'd been sent off as a result of the rules and then running after Tommy to hit him a skelp.

Nope I watched that on tv, think that was in Fraher Field as well? Plus they won in 2009, they didn't win the game I was on about. Probably 2005 actually because I think it was Clinton's first game, got caught with a high ball dropping between himself and the full back. James Ryall was also playing for Kilkenny. I'd say there was a much bigger crowd there in 2005 than at the 2009 game.

Only brought it up because I think its the only time I remember seeing Walsh Park full, or the one that sticks out in my mind anyway.

hurler on de ditch

deiseach wrote: »

Looking through all those games against Kilkenny in recent years, you can understand the frustration of the likes of Wexford and Limerick for not having many chances to have a go at them. Yes, they'll smack you down on a frequent basis. But taking on the best is what sport is all about, testing yourself. It would almost be disappointing if after all our efforts we ended up passing them out on the way up.

Almost, but not quite

wont happen ,TJ Reid said it would be an embarrassment to go down ,

skaface

What we need with both players and management is a Plan "B" that we are also comfortable
with and able to adapt to when needed in the heat of battle.
Every opposition is different, and what works against one team, won't against another.
This was a big problem last year when things weren't working according to plan ,we persisted
and paid the price.
Hopefully this year, the team and management are a year older and wiser and can react
faster to situations presented during C/Ship.
Still, we must be positive and get behind this young team.
We are in Bonus territory now, playing in 1A next season, and a Home Q/F to look forward
to on Sunday.
This is great preparation and experience that this young team need, Onwards and Upwards.

hurler on de ditch

skaface wrote: »

What we need with both players and management is a Plan "B" that we are also comfortable
with and able to adapt to when needed in the heat of battle.
Every opposition is different, and what works against one team, won't against another.
This was a big problem last year when things weren't working according to plan ,we persisted
and paid the price.
Hopefully this year, the team and management are a year older and wiser and can react
faster to situations presented during C/Ship.
Still, we must be positive and get behind this young team.
We are in Bonus territory now, playing in 1A next season, and a Home Q/F to look forward
to on Sunday.
This is great preparation and experience that this young team need, Onwards and Upwards.

Plan A:hurl like you may never wear the jersey again,,Plan B:hurl like you may never wear the jersey again

skaface

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Plan A:hurl like you may never wear the jersey again,,Plan B:hurl like you may never wear the jersey again

HaHa, something like that.
As Willie O, Connor from Kilkenny used to say.. Other counties would die for the jersey,
Kilkenny were prepared to Kill for it:D

MentalMario

deisedude wrote: »

Have to laugh when people insist Kilkenny just play 15 on 15 and as if tactics is a dirty word. Kilkenny often have 2-3 players on the opposition player with possession. That's the exact opposite of playing 15 on 15.

This isn't a sleight on Kilkenny. It is obviously very effective

KK played a two man full forward line in last year's All Ireland final. Larkin played as a free man and was in around midfield for most of the game.

KK's tactics are up there with the best of them.

Ropaire

MentalMario wrote: »

KK played a two man full forward line in last year's All Ireland final. Larkin played as a free man and was in around midfield for most of the game.

KK's tactics are up there with the best of them.

Exactly, they adapt tactically to who the opposition are while we cower and run for a blanket defense from the throw in.

hurler on de ditch

skaface wrote: »

HaHa, something like that.
As Willie O, Connor from Kilkenny used to say.. Other counties would die for the jersey,
Kilkenny were prepared to Kill for it:D

exactly people just over complicate everything ,,take Henry,JJ,Tommy Walsh,Eddie Brennan,Noel Hickey,i could go on all retired in the last few years ,do they blab on about rebuilding/transition,NO lads on the panel delighted to see the back of them as it gives them their chance,DIE for the jersey but more importantly Die playing hurling NOT that horrible brand of footling that they are insisting on playing ,a JOURNALIST once wrote,that watching Waterford playing hurling was like watching a tight rope walker running across the rope ,they might not always get to the other side BUT its pretty entertaining watching them,now they play some form of hurling that is inspired by Donegal Football Team ,instead of playing a game of hurling inspired by KK,Cork,or Tipp hurling FFS

Ropaire

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

exactly people just over complicate everything ,,take Henry,JJ,Tommy Walsh,Eddie Brennan,Noel Hickey,i could go on all retired in the last few years ,do they blab on about rebuilding/transition,NO lads on the panel delighted to see the back of them as it gives them their chance,DIE for the jersey but more importantly Die playing hurling NOT that horrible brand of footling that they are insisting on playing ,a JOURNALIST once wrote,that watching Waterford playing hurling was like watching a tight rope walker running across the rope ,they might not always get to the other side BUT its pretty entertaining watching them,now they play some form of hurling that is inspired by Donegal Football Team ,instead of playing a game of hurling inspired by KK,Cork,or Tipp hurling FFS

Why can't we copy the Kerry way of playing football and adapt that, Kerry win stuff!