Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Deise Doodler

hardybuck wrote: »

Waterford County Board should be commended for giving some recognition to the club championships for once. It's rare that I'd be giving them any praise, but a few other counties will be looking on with interest.

Nationally, we're edging closer than ever to professionalism. Counties like Donegal have a setup more serious than the likes of Waterford could fathom, so serious that their manager was taken on by Glasgow Celtic.

However, that approach is causing a lot of unrest up there lately, as the clubs are being increasingly isolated from their players. At the request of the county management a recent round of county LEAGUE games were postponed at short notice.

This has caused a bit of a stir recently, and it's only a matter of time before Croke Park take a very hands on role with fixtures planning and team preparation. Donegal are an example of a county being held to ransom by a manager promising success. However, what's good for that manager at that particular time might not be in the overall good of the county in the long term. Waterford should know all about that following a succession of outside managers who bled us dry.

The county hurler and footballer is now not much different to the Munster or Leinster rugby player. They all technically belong to a home club, but this is mainly a symbolic gesture, and the clubs would do well to see the player once or twice every year. We're moving closer towards that.

People keep mentioning Cork, I'm not sure about JBM, but their football mgmt allow any player not in the starting fifteen for Sunday national league games to play club league games on each Saturday.

Waterford has one of the most pro hurling an anti football boards in the country. Anyone who thinks different would want to cop on.

While I agree that the whole county/club dilemma is though on the average club player, there has to be a way of handling it better than this, like it or not it is the success of our county teams that will inspire the next generation of hurlers (or footballers if that's your thing). most clubs struggle for numbers these days as the range of sporting and social opportunities for children grows. As great as the work is being done by the clubs to build the numbers ,the kids will always look to their hero's and that ultimately is now down to the success county players. If the county is doing well so will the clubs, I know, I know without the club you wont have the county player, and as I said there has to be a better way of handling the two, but times have changed and in such a media driven world the importance of a strong county team is essential for the development of the game overall. Its easier for those county's that already have that success but we are coming from a low base line , and will have to be a little more inventive than our county board seems capable of.

hardybuck

Deise Doodler wrote: »

While I agree that the whole county/club dilemma is though on the average club player, there has to be a way of handling it better than this, like it or not it is the success of our county teams that will inspire the next generation of hurlers (or footballers if that's your thing). most clubs struggle for numbers these days as the range of sporting and social opportunities for children grows. As great as the work is being done by the clubs to build the numbers ,the kids will always look to their hero's and that ultimately is now down to the success county players. If the county is doing well so will the clubs, I know, I know without the club you wont have the county player, and as I said there has to be a better way of handling the two, but times have changed and in such a media driven world the importance of a strong county team is essential for the development of the game overall. Its easier for those county's that already have that success but we are coming from a low base line , and will have to be a little more inventive than our county board seems capable of.

Again, its a bit chicken and egg, but without treating the club championships with respect, players drift away, particularly in urban areas.

In the city and our larger urban areas, participation in soccer is far higher despite the fact that GAA has far better access to the schools and has far better facilities. Rugby is also on the increase.

This is partly due to the availability of regular games. GAA in Waterford is badly organized and offers sporadic fixtures. While the county teams might inspire children, adults will vote with their feet.

Deise Doodler

hardybuck wrote: »

Again, its a bit chicken and egg, but without treating the club championships with respect, players drift away, particularly in urban areas.

In the city and our larger urban areas, participation in soccer is far higher despite the fact that GAA has far better access to the schools and has far better facilities. Rugby is also on the increase.

This is partly due to the availability of regular games. GAA in Waterford is badly organized and offers sporadic fixtures. While the county teams might inspire children, adults will vote with their feet.

As I said its difficult, players will always drift away, that's modern society for you,
Have a pretty good understanding of the city and the mid county and the truth is that soccer will always have an easier time of getting players, its and easy game to play, give a 5 year old a ball and tell them to kick it and they will manage it every time , do the same with a hurling and to a lesser extent football and the chances are for every time the hit or catch it they will miss it 5 or 6 other times. Add to this that soccer stars are bigger than Elvis and you are half way there.
While rugby is on the increase much due to the current media profile of the game I don't think its going to have the same mass appeal as soccer.

I would agree about the organisation in Waterford ( and this starts with the board) but its not as simple as sporadic fixtures, its as much down to overlapping ages and codes within panels and clubs that don't have the numbers

hardybuck

I think the exodus after minor level requires investigation and action. I wouldn't be happy to accept an issue is there and not address it.

If you took a club like Ballygunner or Mount Sion, they should have 15 lads coming through every year who play at adult level in some shape or form for 10 years on average.

Now, while it's terrific that they have senior, intermediate and junior, they must still be losing 50% of their minors. Personally I don't think that's been taken seriously enough as an issue.

seananigans

Deise Doodler wrote: »

As I said its difficult, players will always drift away, that's modern society for you,
Have a pretty good understanding of the city and the mid county and the truth is that soccer will always have an easier time of getting players, its and easy game to play, give a 5 year old a ball and tell them to kick it and they will manage it every time , do the same with a hurling and to a lesser extent football and the chances are for every time the hit or catch it they will miss it 5 or 6 other times. Add to this that soccer stars are bigger than Elvis and you are half way there.
While rugby is on the increase much due to the current media profile of the game I don't think its going to have the same mass appeal as soccer.

I would agree about the organisation in Waterford ( and this starts with the board) but its not as simple as sporadic fixtures, its as much down to overlapping ages and codes within panels and clubs that don't have the numbers

isn't the county board 20 years out of date ? twitter is somthing birds do and facebook is burying your nose in a good book, website hopelessly useless and weeks out of date, news garnered from forums such as this and the fine work at deiseabu.blogspot.com

the workld ha moved on and left these people behind, the GAA in general in their non acceptance of the GPA proves that.

I just wished there was a way to clear these people out,and bring in people with a modern clout, instead of working around them, (friends of Waterford etc. )

seananigans

twitters a great thing

Deise Doodler

hardybuck wrote: »

I think the exodus after minor level requires investigation and action. I wouldn't be happy to accept an issue is there and not address it.

If you took a club like Ballygunner or Mount Sion, they should have 15 lads coming through every year who play at adult level in some shape or form for 10 years on average.

Now, while it's terrific that they have senior, intermediate and junior, they must still be losing 50% of their minors. Personally I don't think that's been taken seriously enough as an issue.

you would have a pretty big panel if you were hanging on to 12 or 15 from every year, think it would take a fairly radical overhaul of the club structure to provide a meaningful solution to that

tomwaterford

Teebor15 wrote: »

Just wondering, even with all this fine weather we are having over the last few days, is that big dark cloud always over your head?

yes because to raise what is blindlingly obvious is such a bad thing:rolleyes::rolleyes:

look it the way things are going they will do well to avoid being beaten by 15+ points v cork!!

no point in coming on here with your mouth open horrified by a brutal display/hammering v cork when there are people flagging it well in advance!!!
to bury your head in the sand and hope for the best is childish at best:mad:

redlead wrote: »

I didn't say everyone is an idiot but we seem to have more than our fair share of them. I happen to agree with you on the training issue. What I do have issues with are:

1. The constant east v west rubbish that seems never ending. Sadly this issue does actually exist as evidenced by the gombeenisim within the county board

2. The gombeenisim within the county board

3. Blaming every manager we ever have with all our problems. Case in point is last years minor manager.

4. Players who have achieved nothing ousting a manager (and thinking they have right to) who was doing a decent enough job because he apparently isn't good enough for them.

5. Anyone who questions the decisions of Derek McGrath or the removal of Michael Ryan being called a "scully man" when they probably don't know him from Adam.

I agree 100% with you redlead:eek:
but it seem that many posters have an unbelievable blind spot in relation to results and performance under McGrath and have been taken in by his talk of a system which has been dismantled shown to be complete bollix by three different counties
could you imagine the slating ryan and davy fitz would have righly gotton if it occurred under them...Waterford are nearly a case in how far backwards a team can go when they change manager:(

pmy.murphy

hardybuck wrote: »

I think the exodus after minor level requires investigation and action. I wouldn't be happy to accept an issue is there and not address it.

If you took a club like Ballygunner or Mount Sion, they should have 15 lads coming through every year who play at adult level in some shape or form for 10 years on average.

Now, while it's terrific that they have senior, intermediate and junior, they must still be losing 50% of their minors. Personally I don't think that's been taken seriously enough as an issue.

I must say you have brought up an excellent point there. It is an interesting problem which all clubs are faced with all over the country in both hurling and football is the mass exodus after minor level. City Clubs suffer the most, Id imagine its down to the huge pick they would have, young lads look at their options after Minor, see the amount of lads togging out for all the adult teams and figure there is too much competition and lose interest as a result, thats my take on it. Country clubs are affected by this problem too but not half as much as the City clubs

Teebor15

tomwaterford wrote: »

yes because to raise what is blindlingly obvious is such a bad thing:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry Tom, but you've totally missed the point on that one!:rolleyes:

hardybuck

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I must say you have brought up an excellent point there. It is an interesting problem which all clubs are faced with all over the country in both hurling and football is the mass exodus after minor level. City Clubs suffer the most, Id imagine its down to the huge pick they would have, young lads look at their options after Minor, see the amount of lads togging out for all the adult teams and figure there is too much competition and lose interest as a result, thats my take on it. Country clubs are affected by this problem too but not half as much as the City clubs

One thing which the GAA don't seem to do very often is ask players, or those who have left, for their opinions.

On top of what you've mentioned, a lot of urban clubs have less family involvement, availability of other leisure pursuits, lack of interest/enjoyment, emigration and the structures of the games would also be issues.

We can assume that the best minors in Mount Sion for example will hang around, and make it into their senior squad. For the next group of players down, those who need a little more work, or lads who are never making the senior squad, I'm not sure what happens to them.

Another thing which I don't think is being considered properly is playing for enjoyment. If you're playing at senior, inter or junior, teams are taking lumps out of each other and abusing the hell out of refs. That isn't for everyone, and the GAA probably isn't catering for guys who want to go out and play a game where it isn't tribal warfare.

Tournaments like the Kilmacud 7s are hugely popular, I can't understand why there haven't been more winter leagues for stuff like that. Tag rugby has been a massively successful - is there a GAA version possible? Over 35's leagues? There are a number of avenues which the GAA could be exploring in order to increase participation and retention levels.

hardybuck

Deise Doodler wrote: »

you would have a pretty big panel if you were hanging on to 12 or 15 from every year, think it would take a fairly radical overhaul of the club structure to provide a meaningful solution to that

The larger clubs would definitely have that number registered in their final year at minor level. Whether they're all togging out at that stage even I'm not sure.

When there is such a drive to invest in coaching and youth development, I don't know why guys are let go so easily at adult level.

TheBomber14

Senior hurling championship starting this weekend. Can anyone post up a full fixture list please? Also, thoughts, predictions, whos going well etc.

Deise Doodler

hardybuck wrote: »

The larger clubs would definitely have that number registered in their final year at minor level. Whether they're all togging out at that stage even I'm not sure.

When there is such a drive to invest in coaching and youth development, I don't know why guys are let go so easily at adult level.

Think You would have to look at at least having another grade , perhaps changing under 21 to maybe un. 23/4 and players no being eligible to play senior til they pass the age limit, would mean fringe players particularly ay senior level would ne playing for longer as they wouldn't have younger fitter lads taking their place on the team, would have a very diluting effect though, and not sure it would do anything for standard

hardybuck

Deise Doodler wrote: »

Think You would have to look at at least having another grade , perhaps changing under 21 to maybe un. 23/4 and players no being eligible to play senior til they pass the age limit, would mean fringe players particularly ay senior level would ne playing for longer as they wouldn't have younger fitter lads taking their place on the team, would have a very diluting effect though, and not sure it would do anything for standard

Not allowing the best players to play senior until they were 23/4 would be totally unrealistic. Plenty of guys are into their 5th year of senior intercounty by that stage. The top players will be looked after, it's the rest that may be falling by the wayside.

I would be placing more focus on giving lads coming to the end of their better days at adult level somewhere to go, and somewhere for lads who aren't quite cutting the mustard coming out of minor and U21 somewhere to go.

The blue blaa

hardybuck wrote: »

Not allowing the best players to play senior until they were 23/4 would be totally unrealistic. Plenty of guys are into their 5th year of senior intercounty by that stage. The top players will be looked after, it's the rest that may be falling by the wayside.

I would be placing more focus on giving lads coming to the end of their better days at adult level somewhere to go, and somewhere for lads who aren't quite cutting the mustard coming out of minor and U21 somewhere to go.

They have intermediate & junior for lads like you mentioned, we'd be here all day coming up with different ideas but generally its the level of commitment that scares lads away or the fact the numbers goin away to college has risen so much due to lack of opportunity to find work after school and lads drop out of sport because the commitment is too much. Also the fact some lads outside dungarvan/city will not give their all and play for a combined club its war of the buttons stuff. If the hunger and will to play is their there is a team for everyone

Deise Doodler

The blue blaa wrote: »

They have intermediate & junior for lads like you mentioned, we'd be here all day coming up with different ideas but generally its the level of commitment that scares lads away or the fact the numbers goin away to college has risen so much due to lack of opportunity to find work after school and lads drop out of sport because the commitment is too much. Also the fact some lads outside dungarvan/city will not give their all and play for a combined club its war of the buttons stuff. If the hunger and will to play is their there is a team for everyone

I agree, it will always boil down to commitment, I would say the difference between top and average players. Boils down to how much effort they put in to their game from an early age, I'm not advocating, new structures, I was just making the point of how difficult it would be to keep everyone playing

hardybuck

Deise Doodler wrote: »

I was just making the point of how difficult it would be to keep everyone playing

A terribly defeatist comment. You won't be able to keep every player, but we should be trying to keep as many as possible.

The junior and intermediate championships mustn't be whetting everybody's appetite. I think by looking at the success of sports like tag rugby, we should be aiming to attract those who might be interested for a few weeks a year and/or those who might be past getting broken up on the field. It might also be a way of getting far more women involved in playing.

Look at the interfirms and see the missed potential there. That is a 15 a side competition for active players when it could be a summer league involving way more teams on a 7 a side or 10 a side basis.

Croke Park seem to be hoping that the Sky deal will increase the profile of the intercounty game, but they're forgetting about all of the wasted opportunities at club level.

seananigans

what about a shorter 7's tournament, played on weekday evenings , sort of tag rugby style,with rolling subs , could be a winner

TheBomber14

seananigans wrote: »

what about a shorter 7's tournament, played on weekday evenings , sort of tag rugby style,with rolling subs , could be a winner

Some pile of revolutionaries we have on this forum by god! Never heard so much rubbish on a forum in my life. A previous poster has said that he would like to introduce an under 23/24 age category and not allow players play senior until they leave this age category.

Are ye WUMS?? Or just completley out of yer mind? Would ye stop on about this kind of crap and focus on the gaa scene in waterford please.

Its plainly obvious to see ye never were involved in anything gaa related in yer lives. Go back to playing footie manager etc id suggest.

deisedude

On the subject of a gaa equivalent of tag rugby a club in galway city organises a gaelic football tag in the winter they made up themselves and its well received.

hurler on de ditch

seananigans wrote: »

isn't the county board 20 years out of date ? twitter is somthing birds do and facebook is burying your nose in a good book, website hopelessly useless and weeks out of date, news garnered from forums such as this and the fine work at deiseabu.blogspot.com

the workld ha moved on and left these people behind, the GAA in general in their non acceptance of the GPA proves that.

I just wished there was a way to clear these people out,and bring in people with a modern clout, instead of working around them, (friends of Waterford etc. )

agreed dinosaurs ,,old men with enough hair oil and shiney brown suits to make a mob movie ,,clear them out

hurler on de ditch

seananigans wrote: »

twitters a great thing

BURN

thegambler2

Lets change the tone of this page!

Predictions for Round 1 of the Hurling championshiP??

TheBomber14

thegambler2 wrote: »

Lets change the tone of this page!

Predictions for Round 1 of the Hurling championshiP??

At last someone who is interested in talking a bit about the actual waterford gaa scene.

Would you have a list of fixtures?

Whos playing who?

thegambler2

TheBomber14 wrote: »

At last someone who is interested in talking a bit about the actual waterford gaa scene.

Would you have a list of fixtures?

Whos playing who?

Group 1

Abbeyside vs 4mile
De la salle vs Lismore
Roanmore vs Passage

Group 2

Dungarvan vs Ballygunner
Tallow vs Mt. Sion
Ballyduff vs Ardmore

seananigans

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

BURN

I'm not normally a fan of abusing players, but I'm sure he realised himself he walked into that one

Mountainlad

thegambler2 wrote: »

Group 1

Abbeyside vs 4mile
De la salle vs Lismore
Roanmore vs Passage

Group 2

Dungarvan vs Ballygunner
Tallow vs Mt. Sion
Ballyduff vs Ardmore

Those in bold would be my picks, will go draw in the last game.

TheBomber14

Mountainlad wrote: »

Those in bold would be my picks, will go draw in the last game.

Dont know how you could be favouring lismore over de la salle?. fancy dungarvan to beat ballygunner heard dungarvan were flying and ballygunner dont usually peak until later in the year. Going for ardmore to beat ballyduff, and mt sion to beat tallow. passage and abbeyside to pick up wins also.

Mountainlad

TheBomber14 wrote: »

Dont know how you could be favouring lismore over de la salle?. fancy dungarvan to beat ballygunner heard dungarvan were flying and ballygunner dont usually peak until later in the year. Going for ardmore to beat ballyduff, and mt sion to beat tallow. passage and abbeyside to pick up wins also.

De La Salle can be slow out of the blocks too, Lismore seem to have played their best hurling early on in the championship with the last few years and Ray Barry is the in form forward in the County. And still no Stephen Daniels, or Jake Dillon. John Mullane off the County team with two years, and new management team. If Lismore are beaten it won't be by much.