Overseas Player Watch

Beery Eyed · 30-09-2013 6:15pm

That's always good to hear. The development of top level Irish coaches, either at home or abroad, is just as important to the health of the game as the development of players.

With McCall at Saracens, O'Shea at Harlequins, Burke now stepping up at Leicester while Cockerill is banned, and the likes of Davidson at Aurillac in France, there are a few that are starting to develop very strong CV's (I may be leaving out others too, but they come to mind). Hopefully it will come to benefit the game in Ireland eventually, but even if it doesn't it's good to see that they are having an influence on the game after their playing careers.

With all four provinces bringing in top level coaches from abroad in recent times, it would point to a lack of Irish options who were up to the task at that point in time. There's certainly nothing wrong with bringing in this type of expertise, but it would be great to have a few coaches in a position to return to Ireland in a head coach role of the next few years.

Buer · 06-10-2013 7:54pm

Sheridan has played every minute for LI this season. Is their top tackler and has been making regular yards. Really enjoying watching his progress. Hopefully he keeps his injury free run which he so deserves and can get recognition at a higher level.

Morf · 07-10-2013 12:51am

Buer wrote: »

Sheridan has played every minute for LI this season. Is their top tackler and has been making regular yards. Really enjoying watching his progress. Hopefully he keeps his injury free run which he so deserves and can get recognition at a higher level.

What is his distribution like? Is he an upgrade on Downey? Ta!

Buer · 07-10-2013 9:02am

Morf wrote: »

What is his distribution like? Is he an upgrade on Downey? Ta!

He's an alright passer of the ball. I wouldn't put him in the bracket of creative inside centres, certainly, but he's able to pass. He's a good off loader though. He has made a couple of tries this season with taking the ball into contact, dominating it and flipping the ball out to the supporting runner. I'd consider his distribution to be better on Downey. Given he has just started a two year deal there, he'd probably be a very good replacement for him. He'd have more pace too.

He can also play 12, 13 and wing so brings options.

phog · 07-10-2013 9:36am

From Twitter

Mark McKenna ‏@sportproducer 50m

Grenoble's Irish scrum half James Hart named Top14 player of the week by Midi Olympique for role in win over Racing (via @gavinmortimer7)

Howard Juneau · 07-10-2013 9:43am

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/dubliner-james-hart-stars-in-paris-to-outshine-sexton-29639465.html

irishbucsfan · 07-10-2013 10:03am

It'd be nice to see him over here for a training squad. Send MOC to get a close look at him

shoutman · 07-10-2013 12:51pm

Howard Juneau wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/dubliner-james-hart-stars-in-paris-to-outshine-sexton-29639465.html

So true what Jackman said about his work ethic. As a 15 year old you'd see him in the rugby club with a bag of balls throwing passes at the rugby posts.
Hard work pays off!

bamboozle · 07-10-2013 1:35pm

Michael Keating and Ali Birch both scored for Rotherham at the weekend, think they've scored 5 between them so far in the championship. Sean Scanlon had started season at 15 for them but is out for a month and Keating has moved from wing to 15.

Larbre34 · 07-10-2013 11:33pm

H'on James Hart, what a footballer!

Je suis Grenoblois!

irishbucsfan · 08-10-2013 12:00am

Will James Hart be JIFF?

thomond2006 · 08-10-2013 12:11am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Will James Hart be JIFF?

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

Howard Juneau · 08-10-2013 12:14am

thomond2006 wrote: »

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

About 2 years I think, wiki may not be too reliable

the perfect ten · 08-10-2013 9:41am

thomond2006 wrote: »

You have to spend three years in an academy before you're 21. What age did Hart go to France?

If he qualifies as a JIFF player, his stock price in France goes up quite a bit!

My understanding is that if you enter an academy in a French club before your 21st birthday and complete the full 3 years then you are a JIFF, i.e. French formed, player.

So I think this would apply to Hart as he will have completed his third year by 30 June.

irishbucsfan · 08-10-2013 10:10am

If he ends up as an Irish qualified JIFF player capable of playing 9 at H Cup level he'll do very well for himself!

dtpc191991 · 08-10-2013 10:14am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If he ends up as an Irish qualified JIFF player capable of playing 9 at H Cup level he'll do very well for himself!

It would be great for us in 2015. We are a bit thin on the ground and having hiw at that level should give us a quality back up to Murray and Marmion.

pickarooney · 08-10-2013 11:35am

A 9 who can kick? Where did he learn that nonsense?

Buer · 08-10-2013 11:37am

pickarooney wrote: »

A 9 who can kick? Where did he learn that nonsense?

From Conor Murray, Ian Porter and Luke McGrath.

The Lost Sheep · 08-10-2013 5:26pm

Former Scarriff/Young Munster player Shane O Leary named in Grenoble squad for opening Amlin Cup game v Bayonne Thursday night
Would be great to see SOL play Thursday night. Have to wonder why Munster never looked at him for academy?

Aiden7 · 08-10-2013 7:01pm

Is Hart not already french qualified? i read somewhere that he has french mother or grandparent i could be wrong on that tho. If he continues to play well over in france has got to be worth one of the provinces to offer him a deal

Howard Juneau · 08-10-2013 7:05pm

He's worth keeping an eye on of course. But it's early days in his career yet, he's only played a handful of games.
Probably best to let him be second choice at Grenoble and let him get gametime, rather than bring him back to Leinster & stick him in the AIL again

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 08-10-2013 7:10pm

Howard Juneau wrote: »

He's worth keeping an eye on of course. But it's early days in his career yet, he's only played a handful of games.
Probably best to let him be second choice at Grenoble and let him get gametime, rather than bring him back to Leinster & stick him in the AIL again

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Tox56 · 08-10-2013 7:20pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Leinster are falling over themselves with scrum halves. The older 2 will move on but not without a fight and it remains to be seen how Cooney/McGrath will progress but they're decent talents. In terms of game time I think any of the other 3 provinces would be a better bet for him. That's if he wants to come home at all of course

finatron · 08-10-2013 7:27pm

Aiden7 wrote: »

Is Hart not already french qualified? i read somewhere that he has french mother or grandparent i could be wrong on that tho. If he continues to play well over in france has got to be worth one of the provinces to offer him a deal

His mother is French but Jackman said his preference would be Ireland

Howard Juneau · 08-10-2013 7:28pm

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

If he's playing Top14 rugby and putting in MOTM performances he won't be playing in the AIL if he comes back to Ireland. Any of the provinces could do with him and the competition is so weak that he'd more or less be guaranteed a bench spot for Munster/Ulster and in a years time Leinster

Leinster let him go at U19.level.
They have a plethora of up & coming SH's as well as the senior guys. so probably no return home there.
Take into account he has started about 3 of the games this season for Grenoble, he is still very green & talk of him being a future international is a bit premature.
As I said, let him where he is, his contract is for another 18 months, if he makes steady progress, he may want to come back home. But then again, he's half French, he may be very happy with the lifestyle & his new career there as it is.

shuffol · 08-10-2013 9:15pm

George Mcguigan the hooker for the u-20s last season has featured off the bench 3 times for newcastle so far this season. Played a half hour at the weekend against Worcester. Must be fairly highly rated.

student1990 · 08-10-2013 9:21pm

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Leinster let him go at U19.level.
They have a plethora of up & coming SH's as well as the senior guys. so probably no return home there.

plethora?

Reddan and Boss contracts finish this season, maybe they both stay on for one more year.

Cooney is 24 at the end of the season and hasn't broken through at all, McGrath is 21 at the end of the season and is the last year of the academy system.

Realistically SH is a very weak position throughout the provinces, if Hart keeps going he will be in high demand

Tox56 · 08-10-2013 10:00pm

student1990 wrote: »

plethora?

Reddan and Boss contracts finish this season, maybe they both stay on for one more year.

Cooney is 24 at the end of the season and hasn't broken through at all, McGrath is 21 at the end of the season and is the last year of the academy system.

Realistically SH is a very weak position throughout the provinces, if Hart keeps going he will be in high demand

Once again I see you are looking for the positive in every situation...

4 scrum halves is a lot for such a specialist position, and the talent is reasonably well distributed compared to other provinces.

Munster have Murray followed by a chasm to 2 OK (at best) scrum halves. Ulster have Pienaar followed by a slightly smaller chasm to Marshall and 2 decent young 9s.

Leinster have 2 senior (international) 9s of a similar level, Cooney who has picked up a decent amount of experience and probably the most promising of all the young Irish 9s

student1990 · 08-10-2013 10:12pm

4 scrumhalves, with two very near retirement[Reddan(32) + Boss(33)] and certainly past their best, another with very little proven and nearing his mid twenties[Cooney(23)] and a very talented but very much a work in progress player[McGrath(20)] finishing in the academy this year.

No other players in that position in the academy and no obvious candidate to join the academy next season.

Munster have Murray[24], Williams[27], Sheridan[24], Hurley[29], Haugh[20] and Cullen[18].
Ulster have Pienaar[29], Marshall[28], Heaney[22], Porter[25] and Shanahan[20].
Connacht have Marmion[21], Murphy[31], O'Donohoe[26], Walsh[21] and Blade[19].

Tox56 · 08-10-2013 10:19pm

student1990 wrote: »

4 scrumhalves, with two very near retirement and certainly past their best, another with very little proven and nearing his mid twenties and a very talented but very much a work in progress player finishing in the academy this year.

No other players in that position in the academy and no obvious candidate to join the academy next season.

Munster have Murray, Williams, Sheridan, Hurley, Haugh and Cullen.
Ulster have Pienaar, Marshall, Heaney, Porter and Shanahan.
Connacht have Marmion, Murphy, O'Donohoe, Walsh and Blade.

Ulster and Munster have better first choice options but Munster have serious depth problems and not much promise for the future (certainly not as much as Leinster) and the same could be said of Ulster to a lesser extent. Leinster might not have a star right now but they've 2 solid options backed up by two strong options for the future, 1 competent and 1 potentially outstanding.

Munster are 1 injury away from catastrophe, Ulster would be severely impacted by losing Pienaar, but 1 injury for Leinster is barely a blip on the radar by comparison.

Overseas Player Watch

Comments