The case for Keith Earls to start ahead of BOD

First Up

jm08 wrote: »

Would you mind critiquing the 2012 6 Nations game as that is the only time he has had a run of games in the centre when he wasn't chopping and changing position or playing on the wing (which he doesn't do for his province).

I wouldn't mind at all but it will take more time than I can give it just now.

Podge_irl

A) BOD very much does not miss a couple tackles every game. Though obviously he does sometimes miss them. Sometimes it's his fault and sometimes it isn't.

While not ideal, I wouldn't doubt Payne's ability to play 15 for ulster and 13 for Ireland. The guy just oozes class. And if it came to it Anscombe may be getting a chat from on high.

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

A) BOD very much does not miss a couple tackles every game. Though obviously he does sometimes miss them. Sometimes it's his fault and sometimes it isn't.

While not ideal, I wouldn't doubt Payne's ability to play 15 for ulster and 13 for Ireland. The guy just oozes class. And if it came to it Anscombe may be getting a chat from on high.

This.

It’s like saying Earls should never have gotten a game on the wing for Ireland while he was playing 13 for Munster. Similar to what’s happened to Earls recently, Payne would be at a disadvantage trying to get a spot in the position he doesn’t play regularly if another is in form and playing weekly in that position but in general there's nothing stopping him from playing 13 for Ireland and 15 for Ulster.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

First Up wrote: »

I said just about every international but don't worry about it. I have about a half dozen in mind from last season but I would need to do the research to quote chapter and verse.

But you could dissect any player to show them at their worst. You think I'm exaggerating but in my opinion Earls consistently makes more errors of judgement than anyone I can recall who has had an extended run in the Jersey.

Funny that you still have yet to note on example of a run of errors Earls has made since January

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

A) BOD very much does not miss a couple tackles every game. Though obviously he does sometimes miss them. Sometimes it's his fault and sometimes it isn't.

He missed 5 tackles in the 3 games against New Zealand for starters last year. He missed 4 in 5 games in the last 6 Nations.

While not ideal, I wouldn't doubt Payne's ability to play 15 for ulster and 13 for Ireland. The guy just oozes class. And if it came to it Anscombe may be getting a chat from on high.

Now that you mention it, I wonder is that why Anscombe got it out in the public domain that he wants to play Payne at 15. The Ulster supporters would go balistic if Cave, Olding and a few others who have potential to play at 13 were sacrificed so that Payne could be tried out at 13 for the national team.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

He missed 4 in 5 games in the last 6 Nations.

That's less than one a game, not a couple!

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

This.

It’s like saying Earls should never have gotten a game on the wing for Ireland while he was playing 13 for Munster. Similar to what’s happened to Earls recently, Payne would be at a disadvantage trying to get a spot in the position he doesn’t play regularly if another is in form and playing weekly in that position but in general there's nothing stopping him from playing 13 for Ireland and 15 for Ulster.

I think it would much easier to move out from the centre to play on the wing (where you can mainly stay out of trouble) than move from an outside back to a centre.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

That's less than one a game, not a couple!

Well its more than 1 against New Zealand!

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

I think it would much easier to move out from the centre to play on the wing (where you can mainly stay out of trouble) than move from an outside back to a centre.

Not if he trains at 13 regularly enough and gets the odd game. As a full back he pops up quite often in midfield.

He also has a more rounded skill set than Earls and a better rugby brain so I don't think moving around would cause him as many issues as it seems to Earls who needs time to settle in a position.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Not if he trains at 13 regularly enough and gets the odd game. As a full back he pops up quite often in midfield.

He also has a more rounded skill set than Earls and a better rugby brain so I don't think moving around would cause him as many issues as it seems to Earls who needs time to settle in a position.

I would have thought only skilled players with a decent rugby brain would be capable of moving around so much. You saying that the least skilled players are more likely to be moved around?

I think you might be able to move in a club situation into the centre when play with the same players week-in, week-out. I think it might be asking a bit much for someone to start against South Africa/Australia in a new team having only played a couple of club games in the centre (of the calibre of Aironi).

Lelantos

"Is there anything to be said for another pass....I mean mass!"

Todd Toddington III

I thought this was an old thread. Are we still out to get Keith? It's like a time warp and I'm back in 2010/11/12

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

The OP now seems to be perma banned. I think it was only started to cause the **** storm that has gone on, and although I've been a participant, maybe we should all draw a line in the sand !

Hagz

Someone starts a thread that argues in favour of Earls starting ahead of BOD and apparently people are out to get Keith.:rolleyes:

RoundBox11

To go back to one of the positive notes in this thread, im looking forward to seeing earls improve when Schmidt comes in. In my opinion the weakness in earls game is his passing and general distribution. Schmidt will really help him here. Maybe he will become the centre were looking for.

similarly (and off topic), im looking forward to Conor murrays game speeding up under Schmidt. I think he could really be a top player under schmidt

Todd Toddington III

Hagz wrote: »

Someone starts a thread that argues in favour of Earls starting ahead of BOD and apparently people are out to get Keith.:rolleyes:

But thats how these threads always end! And the original poster has somewhat of a reputation. And I'm a Leinster fan who under a different guise gladly got involved in bashing Keith but at this stage it's getting very old and tiresome.

Lelantos

Hagz wrote: »

Someone starts a thread that argues in favour of Earls starting ahead of BOD and apparently people are out to get Keith.:rolleyes:

Someone who is a Leinster fan, has pulled this before & Is now banned, yep, you're spot on

First Up

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Funny that you still have yet to note on example of a run of errors Earls has made since January

Not funny; I just don't have time today (or tomorrow) to go back over it and give you the detail you are asking for. (Do you want 2012 or 2013?)

It isn't just "missed tackles". He has also a tendency to go for the wrong man, or come out of the line or get in the way of other would be tacklers. He can tackle - he is very brave a technically fine. He just gets into bad positions too often for my liking.

danthefan

I'm not entirely sure what's happened in this thread but before Earls can even think about starting for Ireland, the case for him to start for Munster at 13 has to be proven.

If the season starts and he's playing brilliant rugby, not getting caught out of position, not making breaks and then running down blind alleys, then maybe there is a case for him to start. 2012 is not really relevant here, the 2012 6N will be a year and a half gone by the time the AIs come around. Everyone mentioning it thinks Rob Kearney is still in great form, yes?

Swiwi.

danthefan wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what's happened in this thread but before Earls can even think about starting for Ireland, the case for him to start for Munster at 13 has to be proven.

If the season starts and he's playing brilliant rugby, not getting caught out of position, not making breaks and then running down blind alleys, then maybe there is a case for him to start. 2012 is not really relevant here, the 2012 6N will be a year and a half gone by the time the AIs come around. Everyone mentioning it thinks Rob Kearney is still in great form, yes?

Dan, you missed some of the most impartial, reasoned, non-prejudicial, non-jingoistic, in-depth discussion this forum has ever witnessed. A textbook example of how to debate a sporting issue. It did the forum proud, and brought a tear to the eye of this long-suffering rugby fan.

Mahatma Geansai

danthefan wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what's happened in this thread but before Earls can even think about starting for Ireland, the case for him to start for Munster at 13 has to be proven.

If the season starts and he's playing brilliant rugby, not getting caught out of position, not making breaks and then running down blind alleys, then maybe there is a case for him to start. 2012 is not really relevant here, the 2012 6N will be a year and a half gone by the time the AIs come around. Everyone mentioning it thinks Rob Kearney is still in great form, yes?

I think that the 2012 6N is brought up because it was Earls' only sustained run at 13 for Ireland and he looked very good. Ireland's best performance over the last year was arguably against Argentina in the Autumn. Earls played 13 that day.

Kearney is a different case as nobody is disputing his ability to play 15, it's just that recently he has not been playing very well there.

former legend

danthefan wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what's happened in this thread but before Earls can even think about starting for Ireland, the case for him to start for Munster at 13 has to be proven.

If the season starts and he's playing brilliant rugby, not getting caught out of position, not making breaks and then running down blind alleys, then maybe there is a case for him to start. 2012 is not really relevant here, the 2012 6N will be a year and a half gone by the time the AIs come around. Everyone mentioning it thinks Rob Kearney is still in great form, yes?

Rob Kearney was in excellent form for the second half of this season. He was injured for the first half.

He didn't have a great Six Nations but no Irish player did.

irishbucsfan

former legend wrote: »

Rob Kearney was in excellent form for the second half of this season. He was injured for the first half.

He didn't have a great Six Nations but no Irish player did.

He only played the last 4 or 5 games and he was far from his best in the first couple.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He only played the last 4 or 5 games and he was far from his best in the first couple.

In fairness he did look like he was starting to hit form again in the last few Leinster games.

former legend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He only played the last 4 or 5 games and he was far from his best in the first couple.

No allowance for needing time to get into his stride after three months out injured? Or scoring two tries in his first three games back counts for nothing? He was excellent after the 6N anyway.

Whatever, this thread is about Keith Earls who isn't the first cousin of a test level full-back.

<cue bleating about England game in Six Nations 2011>

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

No allowance for needing time to get into his stride after three months out injured? Or scoring two tries in his first three games back counts for nothing? He was excellent after the 6N anyway.

Whatever, this thread is about Keith Earls who isn't the first cousin of a test level full-back.

<cue bleating about England game in Six Nations 2011>

He made a pretty good impression of one in 2011

.ak

former legend wrote: »

No allowance for needing time to get into his stride after three months out injured? Or scoring two tries in his first three games back counts for nothing? He was excellent after the 6N anyway.

Whatever, this thread is about Keith Earls who isn't the first cousin of a test level full-back.

<cue bleating about England game in Six Nations 2011>

Why dismiss that game btw? It turned out it worked, he had an amazingly impressive game there, his counter attacking was brilliant and his positioning was spot on? I'd love to see him there again.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

Why dismiss that game btw? It turned out it worked, he had an amazingly impressive game there, his counter attacking was brilliant and his positioning was spot on? I'd love to see him there again.

He didn't field a single high ball or make a single tackle?

It was a great performance but not necessarily a great barometer of how he'd do at fullback. I think he could do quite well there myself, but he'd require some bedding in time.

irishbucsfan

former legend wrote: »

No allowance for needing time to get into his stride after three months out injured? Or scoring two tries in his first three games back counts for nothing? He was excellent after the 6N anyway.

Whatever, this thread is about Keith Earls who isn't the first cousin of a test level full-back.

<cue bleating about England game in Six Nations 2011>

He only came back after the 6 nations, and if course there's an allowane for hitting his stride, he just about hit his stride for the Amlin final.

Swiwi.

Podge_irl wrote: »

He didn't field a single high ball or make a single tackle?

It was a great performance but not necessarily a great barometer of how he'd do at fullback. I think he could do quite well there myself, but he'd require some bedding in time.....

.....which his provincial teammates Zebo & Murray might well be inclined to provide.....