The case for Keith Earls to start ahead of BOD

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Oh jesus

irishbucsfan

5 games is not a good sample size for anyone of anything in any sport.

Rugby is a sport where it is currently impossible to define overall performance through statistics.

The source for the statistics is dreadfully inaccurate.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I just can't see any point to this thread.........I mean the whole Earls at 13 things has been done to absolute death, BOD is under no threat at 13 for Ireland.

Those stats are from Munsterfans btw

Mahatma Geansai

Anyone who has watched Earls any way objectively over the last few years, wouldn't be surprised by those stats. He is a very good centre who gets a hard time from some quarters because he was touted as BOD successor when he burst on the scene 4 years ago. Well, that's the only reason I can think of for such a quiet unassuming young man to receive such spite directed his way anyway.

Right now he needs to worry about his own fitness and confidence. Everything else should fall into place when that happens.

Bogota

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Anyone who has watched Earls any way objectively over the last few years, wouldn't be surprised by those stats. He is a very good centre who gets a hard time from some quarters because he was touted as BOD successor when he burst on the scene 4 years ago. Well, that's the only reason I can think of for such a quiet unassuming young man to receive such spite directed his way anyway.

Right now he needs to worry about his own fitness and confidence. Everything else should fall into place when that happens.

If he was a very good centre then Brad Barritt and Twelvetrees wouldn't have been selected ahead of him for the Lions. Both are very average international centres and still Earls was considered below them. Earl's doesn't receive any spite, hes a hard-working, decent center. However it gets tiresome to hear moaning about Earls being targeted with bias when in reality it is honest criticism.

Earls is 26 in a month and I can't see him making drastic strides all of a sudden. He's a versatile player to have around but I think he'll struggle to even make the Irish 15 with the form of BOD at 13 and Bowe and Zebo on the wings.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Hopefully it's the same for the ABs after a long season as they finish a long haul journey to landsdowne road.

Maybe Adidas or AIG will provide that special spray that keeps them ripe and not going rotten on the flight over from NZ. Then they will turn the perfect shade of black, and the Irish players will be so mesmerised, that the game will be a stroll in the park :pac:

bilston

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

BOD is under no threat at 13 for Ireland.

To be fair while I'm a BOD supporter in all of this I hope what you say isn't the case. We need someone to begin to challenge him this season. Whether its Earls or not remains to be seen.

Kayless

I wouldn't write Earls off at centre just yet, he put in a very solid performance during the 2012 6 nations and that was under Kidney!

To put this into context, Joe put's a massive emphasis on passing, right so if we take Earls statistics and add Joe into the mix I think we might have ourselves a very good 13.

Lets remember BOD wasn't always as good as he was in 2009, so I think Earls deserves another shot at the 13 jersey.

For a Leinster fan

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Oh jesus

+1 on that.

Beware of threads where the OP floats something controversial but doesn't give his own opinion. They usually descend into farce pretty quickly.

irishbucsfan

I think the real deciding factor will be, who would win in a fight between O'Gara and Sexton?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bogota wrote: »

If he was a very good centre then Brad Barritt and Twelvetrees wouldn't have been selected ahead of him for the Lions. Both are very average international centres and still Earls was considered below them. Earl's doesn't receive any spite, hes a hard-working, decent center. However it gets tiresome to hear moaning about Earls being targeted with bias when in reality it is honest criticism.

Earls is 26 in a month and I can't see him making drastic strides all of a sudden. He's a versatile player to have around but I think he'll struggle to even make the Irish 15 with the form of BOD at 13 and Bowe and Zebo on the wings.

This ole nugget. Earls is criticized fairly, and has been many times without issue. But he got a huge amount of abuse from certain quarters when he was playing in the centre for Ireland, I cited the reaction to his break against Scotland as a good example

He's one of those Irish players, along with ROG, Sexton, Heaslip, POM, that brings out the inner child in some Irish "supporters"

Bogota

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

This ole nugget. Earls is criticized fairly, and has been many times without issue. But he got a huge amount of abuse from certain quarters when he was playing in the centre for Ireland, I cited the reaction to his break against Scotland as a good example

He's one of those Irish players, along with ROG, Sexton, Heaslip, POM, that brings out the inner child in some Irish "supporters"

The reaction to his break against Scotland was perfectly reasonable especially when it cost us a certain try that would have won us the game and when the player in question has previous.

The abuse Sexton and Heaslip got doesn't come close to what 'abuse' Earls gets. Both Sexton and Heaslip were in excellent form and were constantly targeted for unjustified criticism. ROG received some abuse but in a lot of cases he was justifiably criticized. I have yet to see where POM has been 'abused' other than people saying that he unnecessarily gets himself involved in off the ball incidents and while he doesn't give away much penalties he is prone to giving away absolutely stupid ones in dangerous positions (SOB is similarly criticized for this by the way), which is fair enough.
But shur, its all a conspiracy coming from 'certain quarters' (read Leinster fans :rolleyes: )

jm08

Bogota wrote: »

If he was a very good centre then Brad Barritt and Twelvetrees wouldn't have been selected ahead of him for the Lions. Both are very average international centres and still Earls was considered below them. Earl's doesn't receive any spite, hes a hard-working, decent center. However it gets tiresome to hear moaning about Earls being targeted with bias when in reality it is honest criticism.

Earls was injured so couldn't be considered (missing Quins game and started Clermont game when not fully fit before getting injured again).

He had a shoulder op and will miss the start of next season.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bogota wrote: »

The reaction to his break against Scotland was perfectly reasonable especially when it cost us a certain try that would have won us the game and when the player in question has previous.

No it wasn't. But I guess that's the difference

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The source for the statistics is dreadfully inaccurate.

Since all the stats are from the same source, they would be equally inaccurate for everyone, so comparative.

Hype710

In the interests of an actual debate, where would Earls fit into people's first choice 23 for the Autumn Internationals? (Obviously form and fitness will play huge roles so this is hypothetical). Personally I'd have him missing out; Bowe and Zebo to start on the wings, Gilroy on the bench. A toss up between Earls and McFadden to come on the bench if an injury occurred to one of the above trio.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bogota wrote: »

The reaction to his break against Scotland was perfectly reasonable especially when it cost us a certain try that would have won us the game and when the player in question has previous.

The abuse Sexton and Heaslip got doesn't come close to what 'abuse' Earls gets. Both Sexton and Heaslip were in excellent form and were constantly targeted for unjustified criticism. ROG received some abuse but in a lot of cases he was justifiably criticized. I have yet to see where POM has been 'abused' other than people saying that he unnecessarily gets himself involved in off the ball incidents and while he doesn't give away much penalties he is prone to giving away absolutely stupid ones in dangerous positions (SOB is similarly criticized for this by the way), which is fair enough.
But shur, its all a conspiracy coming from 'certain quarters' (read Leinster fans :rolleyes: )

So essentially you're saying it's just the Leinster players who get unfair abuse from Munster fans? A sort of unique phenomenon :rolleyes:

Bogota

jm08 wrote: »

Earls was injured so couldn't be considered (missing Quins game and started Clermont game when not fully fit before getting injured again).

He had a shoulder op and will miss the start of next season.

He returned from injury before the Lions announcement. Healy was also due surgery before start of next season, its the case for many players that they usually hold off until after the Lions tour. You can make excuses all you want but the fact of the matter is that Keith Earls simply wasn't good enough to displace even Twelvetrees and Barritt unfortunately.

.ak

This thread is running close to being closed, but the Leinster vs Munster crap definitely isn't helping. No more provincial jibes people. If you managed to get banned in silly season then I'll make you upload a silly avatar....

Bogota

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So essentially you're saying it's just the Leinster players who get unfair abuse from Munster fans? A sort of unique phenomenon :rolleyes:

Nope I am saying that among the candidates listed, only Heaslip and Sexton got unfair abuse. I'm sure lots of Munster players have received unfair criticism from Leinster fans. I really think you need to take a deep breath and relax before replying

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Since all the stats are from the same source, they would be equally inaccurate for everyone, so comparative.

That doesn't even make sense.

If they both made 50 tackles but one is recorded as making 25 and other 75 then their stats are equally inaccurate but give an outrageously skewed comparison.

irishbucsfan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

This ole nugget. Earls is criticized fairly, and has been many times without issue. But he got a huge amount of abuse from certain quarters when he was playing in the centre for Ireland, I cited the reaction to his break against Scotland as a good example

He's one of those Irish players, along with ROG, Sexton, Heaslip, POM, that brings out the inner child in some Irish "supporters"

I think the more annoying thing is that he is fairly criticised and those criticisms are remembered forever, but when he does anything decently it is forgotten very quickly. The common theme on these boards was how Earls had proved people wrong in the 2012 6 Nations. That was forgotten very quickly.

He put Zebo in for a try with a lovely pass in the H Cup last season and got no praise for it, I remember being annoyed about that. Then he was criticised for not giving a pass (not the inside one) in that Scotland game that noone would have been able to make, and people were making it out to be a bread and butter thing.

I think there are a lot of people with their mind made up on Earls. I think he deserves a good chance at 13 again, I was happy with him there the last time and noone else is really emerging in the position yet.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Since all the stats are from the same source, they would be equally inaccurate for everyone, so comparative.

No

Bogota

jm08 wrote: »

Since all the stats are from the same source, they would be equally inaccurate for everyone, so comparative.

Please tell me that line of logic is an attempt at humor?

jm08

Bogota wrote: »

The reaction to his break against Scotland was perfectly reasonable especially when it cost us a certain try that would have won us the game and when the player in question has previous.

What makes the outrage unreasonable is that there was absolutely no criticism of Brian O'Driscoll for not passing to Earls less than 5 metres from the line when Earls had a clean run in (about 5/6 minutes into the game). Brian tried to go in low himself but was prevented from scoring.

The abuse Sexton and Heaslip got doesn't come close to what 'abuse' Earls gets. Both Sexton and Heaslip were in excellent form and were constantly targeted for unjustified criticism. ROG received some abuse but in a lot of cases he was justifiably criticized. I have yet to see where POM has been 'abused' other than people saying that he unnecessarily gets himself involved in off the ball incidents and while he doesn't give away much penalties he is prone to giving away absolutely stupid ones in dangerous positions (SOB is similarly criticized for this by the way), which is fair enough.
But shur, its all a conspiracy coming from 'certain quarters' (read Leinster fans :rolleyes: )

Heaslip is the worst offender for giving away really stupid penalties (and has been both Red and Yellow carded).

cloneslad

I've not read this thread, the title and the first post are enough. He is not good enough to play in the centre.

Earls is a sub international winger, if he is lucky.

Bowe, Fitzgerald, Trimble, Gilroy and Zebo are all better than him. Fergus McFadden will soon be up there too.

jm08

Bogota wrote: »

He returned from injury before the Lions announcement. Healy was also due surgery before start of next season, its the case for many players that they usually hold off until after the Lions tour. You can make excuses all you want but the fact of the matter is that Keith Earls simply wasn't good enough to displace even Twelvetrees and Barritt unfortunately.

He got re-injured in the Clermont game on Sat 27 April. He missed the Quins game. He has played 50 mins of rugby for Munster since January (against Clermont).

The Lions announcement was Tuesday, 30th April, 3 days after going off injured against Clermont. It wasn't elective surgery.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think the more annoying thing is that he is fairly criticised and those criticisms are remembered forever, but when he does anything decently it is forgotten very quickly. The common theme on these boards was how Earls had proved people wrong in the 2012 6 Nations. That was forgotten very quickly.

He put Zebo in for a try with a lovely pass in the H Cup last season and got no praise for it, I remember being annoyed about that. Then he was criticised for not giving a pass (not the inside one) in that Scotland game that noone would have been able to make, and people were making it out to be a bread and butter thing.

I think there are a lot of people with their mind made up on Earls. I think he deserves a good chance at 13 again, I was happy with him there the last time and noone else is really emerging in the position yet.

Yep pretty much agree with all that

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Bogota wrote: »

Nope I am saying that among the candidates listed, only Heaslip and Sexton got unfair abuse. I'm sure lots of Munster players have received unfair criticism from Leinster fans. I really think you need to take a deep breath and relax before replying

Didn't realise I was giving off the impression of not being calm?

Podge_irl

Hype710 wrote: »

In the interests of an actual debate, where would Earls fit into people's first choice 23 for the Autumn Internationals? (Obviously form and fitness will play huge roles so this is hypothetical). Personally I'd have him missing out; Bowe and Zebo to start on the wings, Gilroy on the bench. A toss up between Earls and McFadden to come on the bench if an injury occurred to one of the above trio.

Honestly, whatever about his faults, I'd have him at 23 ahead of McFadden. He's just a bigger game changer.

Can't see him breaking into the XV though.