The case for Keith Earls to start ahead of BOD

JagerScout

Stats borrowed from another forum.
*Earls missed Wales game in 2012. Stats were taken from welsh game previous season.

Do these stats change your opinion on Keith Earls versus BOD?

Brian_Zeluz

Nope I still have the same opinion. BOD will forever be the starting 13 in my ultimate team and no amount of mortal stats will change that. I am of course tremendously biased.

its_phil

Brian O'Driscoll. Man of the match v Wales 2013.

Nuff said really

Hagz

Number and stats rarely change my opinion on anything to be honest. Especially stats that are as conspicuous as these.

'Earls missed Wales game in 2012. Stats were taken from welsh game previous season.'

I mean how non-sensical is that?! Especially as given Earl's try count, one can only assume that the stats were taken from the 2010 Welsh game where Earls scored two tries. So you have a mixture of his 2012 6N stats, and a game he played against Wales in 2010....right.

I mean at the end of the day, though my memories aren't vivd, I don't recall ever saying to myself in 2012 "you know what? Earls has played so well that I think he's good enough to oust Brian O'Driscoll at outside centre". So therefore no amount of figures will ever change that.

I will add though, that I do remember being satisfied with Earl's performances in the 2012 6nations. He looked capable of playing at 13 in the international arena.

tolosenc

Did Earls not say he was giving up on being a centre, or was I dreaming?

Hagz

tolosenc wrote: »

Did Earls not say he was giving up on being a centre, or was I dreaming?

No, he said that he was happy to play anywhere recently. I'm pretty sure he still prefers to play 13, but he appears to be more at ease with the idea of playing anywhere.

Swiwi.

I would echo the comments from the rugby jersey thread, that Keith should just hope to have an injury-free 2013/2014 and look to hit top form wherever he plays. Owing to previous defensive and distributive issues I would have some concerns about Keith as an international 13, but I wouldn't fully shut the door on him there yet. To a certain extent Schmidt will have to trial and error his selections as he seeks to find a longterm replacement for BOD.

danthefan

JagerScout wrote: »

Do these stats change your opinion on Keith Earls versus BOD?

No.

peterako

Earls is a bit selfish with the ball (or at best myopic with ball in hand).

Not the best attribute for said position....

Not a problem for a winger though!

So...NO....BOD still #1, Earls a good bit down the pecking order....

jm08

Whats really interesting in those stats is BOD 2009 v BOD 2013.

former legend

Those "stats" suggest that Earls was better in 2012 than O'Driscoll was in 2009. You know, when O'Driscoll single-handedly won us the Six Nations.

So, erm, serious pinch of salt required.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Whats really interesting in those stats is BOD 2009 v BOD 2013.

I'd be loathe to use stats from 2013 to judge anyone. It was a complete cluster**** of a season.

jm08

former legend wrote: »

Those "stats" suggest that Earls was better in 2012 than O'Driscoll was in 2009. You know, when O'Driscoll single-handedly won us the Six Nations.

So, erm, serious pinch of salt required.

Look at BOD's defence in 2009. 53 tackles - that was monumental for a centre. He also scored 4 tries. He passed the ball a lot less back then than he does now. I think its interesting to see how his game changed since then.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Look at BOD's defence in 2009. 53 tackles - that was monumental for a centre. He also scored 4 tries. He passed the ball a lot less back then than he does now. I think its interesting to see how his game changed since then.

Interesting that ESPNs interns have become less generous over the years

.ak

All I got from those stats is that BOD in 2009 wasn't human.

Grimebox

These stats are meaningless in comparison

Clareman

Ah j@ysus, this again, it must be the start of the season or a few months away for internationals or something.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a Cave vs. Earls discussion as BoD is the form Irish centre, he started 2 Lions tests, he was player of the 6N last year, he's BoD ffs.

Tim Robbins

Where do those stats show the inside pass Earls didn't give that cocked up a certain try in a VI nations match.

Earls is a far weaker player. You are talking one of the best players in the world against a player who wouldn't make most international teams and is not even in his best position.

It's a ridiculous argument

jamiedav2011

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Where do those stats show the inside pass Earls didn't give that cocked up a certain try in a VI nations match.

Earls is a far weaker player. You are talking one of the best players in the world against a player who wouldn't make most international teams and is not even in his best position.

It's a ridiculous argument

We really, really need to get over this now.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

All I got from those stats is that BOD in 2009 wasn't human.

Except you don't even get that from the stats.

Stats in rugby are useful as an aid for judging a player but they are not the be all and end all that they are in American sports.

y0ssar1an22

Am I missing something obvious here, but where are BODs stats from 2010-2012? Surly they should be included? Not just stats that reinforce one particular point of view.

Buer

So I don't like Ireland's Call and ROG or Humph, people?

Seeing as we're discussing mind-numbing topics that have been done to death....

jm08

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Am I missing something obvious here, but where are BODs stats from 2010-2012? Surly they should be included? Not just stats that reinforce one particular point of view.

The stats come from a thread on Munsterfans that also gives the stats for J Davies & Conrad Smith over a series of 5 games against the same opposition which is reasonable enough sample to take from. I'd imagine the 2009 season for BOD was included because he had a phenomenal year in 2009 (and shows what it takes to win silverwear i.e., you need your top performers at the very top of their game.

http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/25615-Earls-targets-centre-this-year/page13?p=1263362#post1263362

JagerScout

I believe the argument is that 2009 is considered BOD's best season, 2013 is his latest and 2012 is the only time earls had a similar opportunity at playing 13 consistently in a first string side. Earls at 13 in 2012 > BOD at 13 in 2013. I don't agree but thats the argument being made I believe.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

So I don't like Ireland's Call and ROG or Humph, people?

Seeing as we're discussing mind-numbing topics that have been done to death....

Let's throw in Pacific Island poaching, Richie McCaw, Craig Joubert, the Haka for others topics that have only ever been briefly discussed

padser

JagerScout wrote: »

Stats borrowed from another forum.
*Earls missed Wales game in 2012. Stats were taken from welsh game previous season.

Do these stats change your opinion on Keith Earls versus BOD?

The may be a case for starting Earls ahead of BOD this year (I wouldn't personally, but can see some logic to it) but any suggestion that there is a case based on either the previous performances of Earls at 13 or any reasonable expectation of their relative strengths at 13 this coming is utter madness.

The only reason to consider it would be with building for the World Cup in mind.

.ak

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Let's throw in Pacific Island poaching, Richie McCaw, Craig Joubert, the Haka for others topics that have only ever been briefly discussed

They all suck. How'd you like them apples?

bilston

To be fair apart from the Welsh game BOD didn't have the best 6Ns so Earls might well have out performed him in 2012 if we're comparing the two years. But then Ireland were better in 2012 so while the stats are interesting they aren't confirmation of anything IMO.

Anyway I'd be worried if Earls wasn't at least close to the 34 year old BOD now. If he is the man who will have the 13 jersey in the future (obviously that's open to debate) then we'd probably need him to be putting an aging BOD under a bit of pressure now.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

They all suck. How'd you like them apples?

Crisp juicy NZ apples can't be beat! Sadly by the time they arrive in Ireland on the ship they are usually mushy...

.ak

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Crisp juicy NZ apples can't be beat! Sadly by the time they arrive in Ireland on the ship they are usually mushy...

Hopefully it's the same for the ABs after a long season as they finish a long haul journey to landsdowne road.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

The stats come from a thread on Munsterfans that also gives the stats for J Davies & Conrad Smith over a series of 5 games against the same opposition which is reasonable enough sample to take from. I'd imagine the 2009 season for BOD was included because he had a phenomenal year in 2009 (and shows what it takes to win silverwear i.e., you need your top performers at the very top of their game.

http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/25615-Earls-targets-centre-this-year/page13?p=1263362#post1263362

BOD does not need to play like he did in 2009 for Ireland to win silverware. I can save you the time now; he will never again play like he did in 2009. No 13 in Ireland is capable of producing the Six Nations he did in 2009. That was the outstanding season of one of the most outstanding players to ever play the game. Judging BOD against himself in 2009 simply isn't fair and to suggest we need that type of season to win silverware is total nonsense. Earls is not going to usurp BOD as Irish 13 next season, let's just end this thread