RaboPro12 13/14 season thread

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're getting confused. Noone is waiting for someone to be injured. It is a greater offense if the tackled player lands on their head or neck, it's nothing to do with injury.

He's only saying it shouldn't have a bearing, and he's right. It was pure luck that Cuthbert didn't land on his head today. A tip tackle is very different as there's a greater level of control over what happens. Williams ran straight into Cuthbert as he was in the air. He didn't even look at the ball, nevermind go for it. Williams shouldn't be punished any more or less based on sheer chance. He should be punished for his absolute recklessness that could easily have led to serious injury, regardless of how the player landed. No doubt in my mind that should have been a red.

danthefan

The Scarlets left winger looks fairly lively.

Hagz

Ever since that Payne incident, there seems to have been a huge spike in mid air collisions. It's so weird.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

Ever since that Payne incident, there seems to have been a huge spike in mid air collisions. It's so weird.

Was thinking the same thing.

Taco Corp

or there is just more focus on them give the sending off. maybe everyone is looking for similarities

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

He's only saying it shouldn't have a bearing, and he's right. It was pure luck that Cuthbert didn't land on his head today. A tip tackle is very different as there's a greater level of control over what happens. Williams ran straight into Cuthbert as he was in the air. He didn't even look at the ball, nevermind go for it. Williams shouldn't be punished any more or less based on sheer chance. He should be punished for his absolute recklessness that could easily have led to serious injury, regardless of how the player landed. No doubt in my mind that should have been a red.

It's not sheer chance at all. If a player lands on his head it is because something different happened to what would have caused him to land on his back. Luck does enter into it, but the actions of the infringing player do as well.

When you're asking referees to make these decisions based on intent you also have to give them a framework of objective indicators or else it isn't fair. For example an intentional knock on, if it is a one handed attempt to grab the ball and the hand is moving away from the body. The same goes for tip tackles and mid air collisions, the refs are told that if the players lands on his head it is a red card offense. That shouldn't mean that it is ONLY a red card offense when the player lands on his head, and the memorandum specifically said that it isn't.



As for tip tackle v. mid air collision, luck completely enters into it when a player who has been tipped lands on their head. In fact I would say it's more down to luck for a tip tackle, because if you have a player in the air in a tackle and you lose control, their momentum brings them around onto their head (as you are holding them lower, so they pivot around that). That doesn't happen for mid air collisions. Full tip tackles are rarely intentional, I don't think people quite realise that.

CatFromHue

Cardiff won anyway.

Williams got a second yellow for slowing the ball down. Copeland stood on his head when he was and got a red card for it.

Buer

Moronic from Copeland. His season is over. He'll cop at least 4-6 weeks for that. Williams was red carded (second yellow) for his retaliation but he can't be blamed for it. Any player would throw a punch after being stamped on like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b82CoZ3RLIg

EDIT: Sorry, second yellow was for slowing ball down as CFH correctly states.

CatFromHue

Williams should have been red carded when he got his fist yellow, it was very intentional what he did.

Buer

CatFromHue wrote: »

Williams should have been red carded when he got his fist yellow, it was very intentional what he did.

Yup, I think we can expect him to be cited for it. It was a nasty piece of play by our favourite Scarlet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-cKsphRkj4

Morf

Buer wrote: »

Yup, I think we can expect him to be cited for it. It was a nasty piece of play by our favourite Scarlet.

Ahem . .

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Buer wrote: »

Moronic from Copeland. His season is over. He'll cop at least 4-6 weeks for that. Williams was red carded (second yellow) for his retaliation but he can't be blamed for it. Any player would throw a punch after being stamped on like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b82CoZ3RLIg

EDIT: Sorry, second yellow was for slowing ball down as CFH correctly states.

Well disciplined player wouldn't . Especially knowing they were already on a yellow. I've never quiet disliked a rugby player as much as Williams. Terrible role model

Mahatma Geansai

Buer wrote: »

Moronic from Copeland. His season is over. He'll cop at least 4-6 weeks for that. Williams was red carded (second yellow) for his retaliation but he can't be blamed for it. Any player would throw a punch after being stamped on like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b82CoZ3RLIg

Stupid from Copeland, but I don't think anyone of us could put our hands up and say that we've never wanted to kick Williams in the head. I'd imagine his season will also be over for purposely taking the Cardiff player out in the air.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Stupid from Copeland, but I don't think anyone of us could put our hands up and say that we've never wanted to kick Williams in the head. I'd imagine his season will also be over for purposely taking the Cardiff player out in the air.

There is absoltuely no defense for kicking someone in the head, regardless of who they are. Williams is a dirty player of course, but Copeland should be ashamed.

Buer

Indeed. He had an outside chance of going to Argentina this summer but almost certainly being ruled out of the last two games and showing such poor discipline may well have cost him any hope.

Molester Stallone

CatFromHue wrote: »

We play two and Munster play one but my point was more that in the English and French leagues the only benefit of finishing top is you get a play off against the 4th placed team. In the Rabo you get the chance at a home Final.

The other multi country league, SuperXV, have it that the final is played in a home venue for the highest ranked team too.

What home game do Munster play in the aviva?

Buer

They don't. They play once every season there against Leinster.

The Lost Sheep

On tackles/collisions in the air we referees are under fairly clear guidelines.
The Safety requirement of protecting players in the air comes into what occurs after collision. an Unintentional act does not mean no YC/RC. A chasing player saying they have their eyes on the ball is not a strong enough argument as they have a responsibility for the safety of the receiver.

A player jumping without really contesting for the ball is an illegal action and that player is open to sanction and a player who is not really contesting for the ball for instance, he is running into the player who is trying to catch the ball mainly to disrupt the reception of the ball is an illegal action and player is open to sanction.

A player not jumping to contest the ball must not take out a jumping receiver. Looking at the ball does not make this action legal.

Like in the tackle where the tackler is responsible for the safety of the tackled player, the chasing player is responsible for the safety of the player in the air.

For any illegal action, like for a tip tackle, it is the way in which the player falls and the part of the body that the player falls on which is relevant. If a player lands on his head/neck, it should be a red card.

matthew8

Biggar's kicking to touch off penalties is quality. Great to see someone go for every inch and succeed.

Buer

Half time and no score in Dragons/Ospreys. The Dragons could do Ulster a massive favour.

Surprising that Ospreys aren't doing better; game is in a neutral venue.

matthew8

All Ospreys in the first half. If they had any bottle at the tryline they'd be 21-0 up but every time they get close they mess it up. Dragons did not have a sniff. 90% territory for Ospreys. They also turned down a fair few shots at goal, maybe recognising the importance of the bonus point.

Buer

Dragons try. Ulster are going to benefit hugely from this score if they see it out.

Buer

I think Ospreys must be resigned to Adam Jones leaving them. They're investing all their game time in Jarvis these days. The Leinster HEC game is the only game that Jones has started for them this year; he's been a sub in all of his other 5 or 6 appearances for them since the new year.

matthew8

I've never seen a less clinical performance by any team in my life. They must have had 20 visits to the Dragons 22 with zero points return.

CatFromHue

Molester Stallone wrote: »

What home game do Munster play in the aviva?

They don't but they do play there every year.

Again my point was that be able to play a final in the Rabo is a greater reward for finishing first than in the other leagues in Europe.

Molester Stallone

CatFromHue wrote: »

They don't but they do play there every year.

Again my point was that be able to play a final in the Rabo is a greater reward for finishing first than in the other leagues in Europe.

That paragraph makes no sense, sorry

matthew8

That is an absolute howler from Spratt. Slaps the ball forward, gets himself a yellow and the Dragons a chance to level it at 10-10.

Buer

Molester Stallone wrote: »

That paragraph makes no sense, sorry

Finishing 1st in the Pro12 means you play your final in your home ground unlike the AP or T14 finals thus it's a greater reward.

thomond2006

Molester Stallone wrote: »

That paragraph makes no sense, sorry

Munster play Leinster once a year in the Aviva?

awec

The inconsistency from referees is absolutely infuriating.

Just saw the Williams' issue - how's that not a red then? :rolleyes: